beggers in downtown

[whited0ve]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I live downtown, it doesn't bother me.


Maybe you're just from somewhere else and you're not used to it, but welcome to the real world, man.

nah true some ppl arent bothered by it... me though i used to work with homeless ppl etc., i guess just see it from a different viewpoint, and it bothers me. when i was working at the place i really just got fed up of trying to help them. really most of them just want things given to them. they dont want to work for anything, and they get mad when its not given to them.

im not saying this for all. for sure you go walking in the eastside and some are really insanely cool ppl not looking for your money.

then theres the rest that obstruct my paths on the way home. actually following me home and walking in front of me when i try to get past them.

ill gladly give them food, i always do if i have food on me. but most of the time i get it thrown back in my face and they bark at me for money to buy a bottle of brandy.

[tiedye]

I have to throw out that I completely respect fable's point. There is Cree somewhere down my heritage line, not long before my grandfather. He is still very much in touch with his native heritage and has stated that point many times before the government ever ran their studies. It is true that due to generation after generation of indigenous cultures being mistreated and suppressed, they have retained negative afflictions to their mental state.

Now.. for my point. I spent two months living down on Pandora, a block from Hastings and Lakewood. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the area, but it's right at an intersection where a Dairy Queen, A&W, and a 7-11 sit. It's not necessarily a bad part of hastings, crime/junkie-wise, but it is still a very popular spot for homeless to panhandle. I frequented that 7-11 several times a day and was asked every single time I walked in and out of that building if I had change. One guy asked me if I could spare some tech for a pick-me-up. I've always stood by my (ok, I'll say it) neo-hippie outlook on life.

I didn't spare him any jib, but I did buy him a coffee and a sengie. I would give any change I had from my transaction, occasionally. But the one thing that made the most difference in their lives was the fact that I would sit down next to them, and talk to them - sometimes for hours. I had some of the most intelligent conversations I've ever had with some of these people (and I don't say "these people" to segregate myself from them - I'd be stooping as low as 1950s Mississippi by doing that).

One homeless kid, about my age, was sitting outside a restaurant on Commercial with a sign that read "Why Not?" When I inquired as to what his sign meant, he told me that this restaurant had fired him because several of the customers made complaints they saw him sitting on the street and the manager (not in so many words) let him go because the customers were not happy with this. Keep in mind, he had rented a hotel for a month while he worked there. He had come from Toronto because he heard Vancouver was a happening place, and that British Columbia was the most accepting place on the continent. Sure doesn't sound like it.

Not everyone is homeless because they don't want to work, or because they are addicted to a drug, or because they are mentally ill. There are plenty out there that are just misfortunate and didn't make it on their own. Maybe they don't have anyone to call for a bus ticket home.

Stop complaining. Saying "Sorry man, can't help you" and feeling bad until you forget about it moments later is a lot less trouble than they go through on a day to day basis. (sorry that was so long winded)

[diva]

Most of the homeless people you see begging for change downtown have a lot of mental illness issues going on. Over the past ten years, the provincial government has made a huge push to de-institutionalize the mentally ill in this province. The result of this is a lot more people who can't get "real" jobs, due to stigma surrounding their illnesses, and lack of real work experience. A lot of the people you see begging for change on the streets of downtown vancouver are people who lived in places like Riverview and Woodlands a few years ago. People who, on top of whatever mental illness they have going against them, have zero work experience due to having lived in institutions for the majority of their lives.

I spent a summer (school clinical placement) on the downtown eastside. Unless you've walked a mile in their shoes, you have no fucking clue what it's like to be unemployable and stimagized in vancouver. There were days, where i'd have to find a client on whatever street on the eastside in order to deliver their psych meds for the day.

And yeah, a lot of the people within the homeless population have drug problems, but those some secondary to their mental illnesses.

To make a potentially long post short, there's a really shitty story that goes along with each and ever begger you encounter on the street. A shitty childhood, an undiagnosed or untreated mental illness, or just really crappy luck. After i'd finished my stint on the downtown eastside, i began to see all of my clients as people who'd experienced really shitty lives, and not as people who were drains on our society.

im confronted by these ppl constantly.

wtf does that mean? these ppl?
how different would your life be if you'd experience 1/4 of the trials and tribulations that these people go through on a daily basis?

do you think these people grew up thinking that they were going to pan handle for a living? seriously, get a fucking clue.

and yeah, grapes is right about things taking a major nose-dive since the liberals got elected. thousands of people were displaced from the only homes they'd ever known. with no real life experience or education to fall back on, wtf did you expect would happen to them?

[this post was written while i was under the influence, so please excuse me for not making much sense. thanks. :P]

[whited0ve]

DEAR i didnt mean to segregate using that word either. besides it wasnt that serious... keep ur cool ppl

besides the fact that its almost impossible to have an opinion on this site...

ok well maybe youve got some point i did work in maple ridge and not downtown (keep in mind vancouver sends a lot of their homeless there, gives them bus tickets etc.). still they get angry over something like giving direction to the foodbank... this happened a LOT. "what the hell!? I don't wanna eat that crap!! why wont the gov give me money??!!!" that was the most popular one.

did you know also that there are programs in place that pay these people an hourly wage, 40h/wk min wage+ (but hey, better than nothing) to look for work. a lot of ppl i know in maple ridge did this cus its impossible to find work there on your own.

i lived around main st. for awhile too... heres a cute story. one day, whaddya know, on the #3 main bus is an old friend from maple ridge! haven't seen him in years. we get to talking, found out he was homeless. he wasnt the begging type though.. this guy was determined. he found a job while he was homeless (at saveonfoods), and he used the leisure centre to take showers and clean himself up, lock up his stuff. he also worked closely with his social workers. now he's in vancouver, and for the first time in awhile, him and his social worker were getting down a lease for his own place in southeast van. no roomies. probably a hole, but its shelter.

when u see ppl like this and then the street ppl who throw your food back in your face, yknow, you just get a different view. I'm sorry im not 100% sympathetic with them.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

nah true some ppl arent bothered by it... me though i used to work with homeless ppl etc., i guess just see it from a different viewpoint, and it bothers me. when i was working at the place i really just got fed up of trying to help them. really most of them just want things given to them. they dont want to work for anything, and they get mad when its not given to them. .

Really? I love how you know everything about my life seeing as how I spent two years as a teenager volunteering at a soup kitchen every friday night. I really don't think that more time spent with disadvantaged people can make you an expert on being a stuck up cunt with a very narrow world view. In case you didn't notice, we live in a socialist democracy, a lot of people get and even expect things without working for them (and guess what? some day you will too!) hell! people even go to the hospital and DON'T EVEN PAY FOR THEIR VISIT. Anyways, if you don't know that is how things work here in Canada, then I strongly suggest you reconsider your aspiriations to become a politican.

I'm not bothered by it because this is reality, this is part of the real world, and this is everywhere and it has been around almost as long as man itself. And how is being bothered by 'them people' going to fix it ? Do you think if you bitch about how much it rains in Vancouver for long enough it might suddenly stop someday?

[whited0ve]

^ that was rude. im not being stuck up. my view is different from yours. can we agree on that? i dont want this to turn into another teachers strike forum.

i said in my posts im not putting it towards all homeless ppl. and i didnt work in a soup kitchen, but i did work with them. i just had a different view ok, pls, no need for that.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

^ that was rude. im not being stuck up. my view is different from yours. can we agree on that? i dont want this to turn into another teachers strike forum.

i said in my posts im not putting it towards all homeless ppl. and i didnt work in a soup kitchen, but i did work with them. i just had a different view ok, pls, no need for that.

perhaps it was a little rash, but do you not see a problem with the terms you originally used? Do you not understand how the statements you make can create those kinds of reactions in people?

[whited0ve]

the first post was a joke. yea i do know it can make reactions to ppl, but its a forum too, not a press conference :P ah well. another one bites the dust...

[Ree Fresh]

I can understand that alot of ppl must be turned away from helping somone living on the streets as you may often get rude remarks or reactions from them. Yet you have to understand where their coming from. Like whitedove said a high % of ppl living on the street have a 'metal illness' or they were either brought up in a broken home or began their life on the streets at a early age and were never thought proper maners and behaviour. I dont have alot of experince workign with ppl who are homeless, but when you take a closer look and try to put your self in their shoes and imagin what its like... its a whole new world and way of life.

This is why I feel so strong about early intervention programs and helping kids at a young age. By time you try to help or change ppl once they hit adult hood... its very hard for them to change.

Theres an amazing documentry I saw about a couple of police officers who work on our dt east side. I beleive its called "the deep blue" or somthing. It gives you a much better understanding of why ppl who are drug addicts are on the streets. Of corse they dont want to be there... but their addiction is so great that their stuck.

I think Myra made an excelent point of how we get free health care. Not to mention everyone has the right to an education. Alot of the ppl we see living on the streets have some how fallen through the cracks or just dont qualify for help OR simply dont know where or how to get help. It's called social responsibility and seeing the amount of ppl living on our streets is a sighn that were lacking it.

[fable]

reading the posts by the likes of tdye,diva,myra,wellbeloves and numerous others, i can only say WOW! :)

at the sake of reinforcing what you guys have been talking about:

-untreated, and undiagnosed mental health and sytemic addiction issues play a large contributing factor in the daily realities that a large population of impovrished peoples face

-as a result of historic oppression, and contemporary disregard for Indegenous peoples of Canada, the government has succesfully contributed to a society that is riddled with the most serious of disfunctional social sicknesses including rapant youth suicide, unplanned pregnancies, substance abuse, violence, incarceration, depression, and loss of self worth

-regardless of the actions of a few, the solutions to the impovrished dilemna reside in understanding the core issues of the entire phenomenon, and temprering humanitarian endevour with grassroots mobilization, to spear head a call for greater governmental transperancy of policy making and enactment, and accountability.

Please note, that although the APC has seen better days, there are still several grassroots organizations that target impovrished peoples in their domestic agendas and coordination planning. And that many old APC members are still out there, trying to unite. mobilize and educate. Asides from the impovrished community, people such as these, our community health workers, shelter volunteers, food line workers, counsellors, sponsors and mentors all need OUR support!!!!

[fable]

we live in a socialist democracy

elaborate please?

[fable]

But the one thing that made the most difference in their lives was the fact that I would sit down next to them, and talk to them

Im sorry mate, but i fucking promise you, if i ever meet you in person - im going to give you a massive hug!

man, you have no idea, how fucking amazing it was to read this, no fucking idea.....

[Two_Six]

I usually give them money, at new year's eve at the stadium skytrain station a bum asked me for change and I gave him $5 and he was so happy. I figured $5 was nothin and wouldn't make me richer plus he needed it more than me anyways.

[Two_Six]

fable

Kewl looking sig man :)

[Harp]

Originally Posted by Two_Six

I usually give them money, at new year's eve at the stadium skytrain station a bum asked me for change and I gave him $5 and he was so happy. I figured $5 was nothin and wouldn't make me richer plus he needed it more than me anyways.

Thats the worst thing u can do.Would you rather have them buy more drugs with the money u gave them or have them not starve?

For example one time i saw a man with a sign asking for change and he was standing where u make a left at the lights. So i noticed his sign and made a quick stop to A & W and grabbed him a good sized meal and gave it to him. After i gave it to him he was very appreciative and said thank you with a smile on his face. Sure it took some time out of my day but hey the feeling i got was priceless. That was the first time, but deffinately not the last.

[fable]

Thats the worst thing u can do.Would you rather have them buy more drugs with the money u gave them or have them not starve?

Hmmm, i dont know how i feel about this comment. Id be lying if i said that it isnt based on a common occurance - that is impoverished people taking money and immedietly purchasing a few points of the god knows what. But at the same time, we have to be careful how far we will take such a critique, because people will admittedly operate under a sence of what is convenient at the time.

Although i appluad the sentiment of going and purchasing food. But if this is just an isolated incident, then ultimately your wonderful humanitarian gesture is rendered useless in more pragmatic terms. But by your words, you seem to have an positive belief system that is backing such action. Good on yeah! :)

[fable]

Originally Posted by Two_Six

fable

Kewl looking sig man :)

thx bro, im currently trying to accelaerate my devolment, ill throw down a design for your tag, when i get some time to fuck around with new techniques. "Two-six" will make an awesome subject!

[Bevvy Swift]

wow this thread got out of hand! i cant read half of this in my hungover state

[C_squared]

Originally Posted by -ff-

stupid poor people - how dare they have the nerve to be miserable and hungry!?!

no doubt eh, why don't you all just get a job ok?

[C_squared]

all bullshit aside.

I never give homeless people money, most of them come across as pushy and ungreatful once you give them your change. Like I've told homeless people before, there are social services in your community that can give you food and shelter. sheesh.

[whited0ve]

^ true, and theyre very willing to give. a lot of homeless only want money though... take the story of my friend i saw on the bus that was homeless. he took full opporunity of the services and worked his way up. that guy was a trooper.

[fable]

Originally Posted by C_squared

all bullshit aside.

I never give homeless people money, most of them come across as pushy and ungreatful once you give them your change. Like I've told homeless people before, there are social services in your community that can give you food and shelter. sheesh.

Yeah but C, the reality is that these "services" are dangerously underfunded, understaffed and lacking a basic level of resources, comparitively to what is actaully needed or even portrayed in the city.

[fable]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

^ true, and theyre very willing to give. a lot of homeless only want money though... take the story of my friend i saw on the bus that was homeless. he took full opporunity of the services and worked his way up. that guy was a trooper.

Can you either makes a valid point with somewhat of a stable researched, platform, condusive to real discussion, or a legitimate critique OR SHUT THE FUCK UP! You are going to make a great politician indeed, youve jumped around so much in regards to a stance, im beginning to think you have ADHD.

[fable]

dear god. living downtown is the worst - im confronted by these ppl constantly. Has anyone else noticed that Vancouver smells of rancid urine most of the day?

nah true some ppl arent bothered by it... me though i used to work with homeless ppl etc., i guess just see it from a different viewpoint, and it bothers me. when i was working at the place i really just got fed up of trying to help them. really most of them just want things given to them. they dont want to work for anything, and they get mad when its not given to them.

im not saying this for all. for sure you go walking in the eastside and some are really insanely cool ppl not looking for your money.

then theres the rest that obstruct my paths on the way home. actually following me home and walking in front of me when i try to get past them.

ill gladly give them food, i always do if i have food on me. but most of the time i get it thrown back in my face and they bark at me for money to buy a bottle of brandy.

DEAR i didnt mean to segregate using that word either. besides it wasnt that serious... keep ur cool ppl

besides the fact that its almost impossible to have an opinion on this site...

ok well maybe youve got some point i did work in maple ridge and not downtown (keep in mind vancouver sends a lot of their homeless there, gives them bus tickets etc.). still they get angry over something like giving direction to the foodbank... this happened a LOT. "what the hell!? I don't wanna eat that crap!! why wont the gov give me money??!!!" that was the most popular one.

did you know also that there are programs in place that pay these people an hourly wage, 40h/wk min wage+ (but hey, better than nothing) to look for work. a lot of ppl i know in maple ridge did this cus its impossible to find work there on your own.

i lived around main st. for awhile too... heres a cute story. one day, whaddya know, on the #3 main bus is an old friend from maple ridge! haven't seen him in years. we get to talking, found out he was homeless. he wasnt the begging type though.. this guy was determined. he found a job while he was homeless (at saveonfoods), and he used the leisure centre to take showers and clean himself up, lock up his stuff. he also worked closely with his social workers. now he's in vancouver, and for the first time in awhile, him and his social worker were getting down a lease for his own place in southeast van. no roomies. probably a hole, but its shelter.

when u see ppl like this and then the street ppl who throw your food back in your face, yknow, you just get a different view. I'm sorry im not 100% sympathetic with them.

^ that was rude. im not being stuck up. my view is different from yours. can we agree on that? i dont want this to turn into another teachers strike forum.

^ that was rude. im not being stuck up. my view is different from yours. can we agree on that? i dont want this to turn into another teachers strike forum.

i said in my posts im not putting it towards all homeless ppl. and i didnt work in a soup kitchen, but i did work with them. i just had a different view ok, pls, no need for that.

the first post was a joke. yea i do know it can make reactions to ppl, but its a forum too, not a press conference :P ah well. another one bites the dust...

^ true, and theyre very willing to give. a lot of homeless only want money though... take the story of my friend i saw on the bus that was homeless. he took full opporunity of the services and worked his way up. that guy was a trooper.

your always good for a laugh!

@ your expence that is.

[whited0ve]

jesus now youre just being fucking rude alright? what am i not to have an opinion or say anything??? was I being rude? wtf seriously youre just an asshole. just fucking discussing on a forum but you have to come on here and cut me down. do you get some kind of good feeling from it? what is your problem???