People who make music: Brutally tear this shit apart

[Dr. Doom]

Well, Doom has been thinking about attempting a live PA thing again, and has (since he only has two bits of gear [[a tr-707 and a fr-777]]) decided to start working on some minimal techno.

However, he knows shit all. So in order to better himself, he needs some brutally honest opinions, preferably with constructive criticism, but flames are equally welcome.

Contains three/four bits from the first part of it:
http://members.shaw.ca/ebn/Doom_-_tech_temp.mp3


Doom also has a somewhat mediocre Live Acid set of his on computer, if anybody wishes to critique that just ask for it and sending will be arranged.

[mux]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Well, Doom has been thinking about attempting a live PA thing again

Grabbing your techno now, I'll let you know brutally what I think after I've had a listen (probably won't be tonight tho).

First critique: name your files with your artist name - "doom_-_whatever.mp3", or "doom - whatever.mp3", doesn't matter - but please, just do it. I recently had to delete over 100 mp3's 'cause I had no idea who did them. As a rule, I'm now refusing to download tracks that don't meet that minimum height restriction, but I'll bend this one time.

If you're serious about producing music, live or otherwise, you should get on the BHC discussion list. VERY valuable resource for Van-area electronic musicians. http://www.blackholeclub.com.

[mux]

Ok, had a few listens.

Impression: your 777 patterns are tweaky and funky, I like the second one best of all. Your acid wanking is also excellent.

Gotta say tho - even as a former lover of the TR-707, the drums are shite - you're limited to a close array of noises, and while this works for acid using the TR-909, that's 'cause the 909 sounds are useable and sound awesome really loud. The 707 kick does nothing for me, and on a big soundsystem is likely to make someone's eyes bleed (and not in the fun way). The hats, rides and toms are totally useable, especially with some FX, and even the snare can be fun, but you'll have to do something about that kick. Your patterns are classic - but definitely need some work. People aren't really looking for "classic" these days. You're also burying the sounds behind the acid lines - what are you using for a mixer? Use those indy-outs on the 707, and EQ the hats and kick to sit in the mix better. The hats and kick should be on their own mixer channels, especially the kick!

I understand that these are just patterns, not an example of the live set (tho I'd love to hear the one you mentioned, privmsg me a URL and I'll have a listen), the sound is just not full enough to keep my attention. If you're going to do an all-gear live-pa, you need more gear. I see your mention of the FR Revolution, but in your situation, I would have to recommend you give that one a pass (you already have a 777) and go for gear that'll give you more flexibility in your setup, and more bang for the buck. If I were in your shoes, I would run, not walk, directly to ebay.ca and pick up a Nord Micro Modular... I cannot express how useful the little red synth swiss army knife is in my studio. Another one worth a look is the Korg Electribe EA-1 - the ER-1 is also awesome, but overlaps a bit with your 707. The EA-1 sequencer is fun, the sounds are usable (maybe a bit weak, but that's what the 777 is for, and they have a lot of flexibility), and the size and price are right. If you don't have a mixer, look for a Mackie 1402; Behringer stuff is ok for live use, but you get what you pay for in terms of build quality - a Mackie will survive being tossed of the back of a truck.

I respect and admire your will to do live-pa - but keep one thing in mind: it's easy to rock the house for 20 minutes; it's *much* harder to rock for an hour. I learned this the hard way; fortunately very few people came to that gig! If you're going to do it with a very limited rig, it's nearly impossible to keep up any kind of interest in the crowd without changing up the sounds a *lot*. If all your songs use the TR-707 drums and the FR-777 as a lead, all your songs are going to sound exactly the same - you need to add some flexibility to your setup. Look to the Nord, it's the best $400 you'll ever spend.

Keep it up, you're well on your way!

[Séguin]

this reminds me of really old techno from the 80s... like Phuture or Plastikman

[ebbomega]

Will check out and will lambaste when I get back to Duncan.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by mux

Ok, had a few listens.

Impression: your 777 patterns are tweaky and funky, I like the second one best of all. Your acid wanking is also excellent.

Gotta say tho - even as a former lover of the TR-707, the drums are shite - you're limited to a close array of noises, and while this works for acid using the TR-909, that's 'cause the 909 sounds are useable and sound awesome really loud. The 707 kick does nothing for me, and on a big soundsystem is likely to make someone's eyes bleed (and not in the fun way). The hats, rides and toms are totally useable, especially with some FX, and even the snare can be fun, but you'll have to do something about that kick. Your patterns are classic - but definitely need some work. People aren't really looking for "classic" these days. You're also burying the sounds behind the acid lines - what are you using for a mixer? Use those indy-outs on the 707, and EQ the hats and kick to sit in the mix better. The hats and kick should be on their own mixer channels, especially the kick!

I understand that these are just patterns, not an example of the live set (tho I'd love to hear the one you mentioned, privmsg me a URL and I'll have a listen), the sound is just not full enough to keep my attention. If you're going to do an all-gear live-pa, you need more gear. I see your mention of the FR Revolution, but in your situation, I would have to recommend you give that one a pass (you already have a 777) and go for gear that'll give you more flexibility in your setup, and more bang for the buck. If I were in your shoes, I would run, not walk, directly to ebay.ca and pick up a Nord Micro Modular... I cannot express how useful the little red synth swiss army knife is in my studio. Another one worth a look is the Korg Electribe EA-1 - the ER-1 is also awesome, but overlaps a bit with your 707. The EA-1 sequencer is fun, the sounds are usable (maybe a bit weak, but that's what the 777 is for, and they have a lot of flexibility), and the size and price are right. If you don't have a mixer, look for a Mackie 1402; Behringer stuff is ok for live use, but you get what you pay for in terms of build quality - a Mackie will survive being tossed of the back of a truck.

I respect and admire your will to do live-pa - but keep one thing in mind: it's easy to rock the house for 20 minutes; it's *much* harder to rock for an hour. I learned this the hard way; fortunately very few people came to that gig! If you're going to do it with a very limited rig, it's nearly impossible to keep up any kind of interest in the crowd without changing up the sounds a *lot*. If all your songs use the TR-707 drums and the FR-777 as a lead, all your songs are going to sound exactly the same - you need to add some flexibility to your setup. Look to the Nord, it's the best $400 you'll ever spend.

Keep it up, you're well on your way!

Doom is using a somewhat broken 8 channel behringer mixer. As for more gear, he is already somewhat on the ball for that one. He was planning on purchasing a Korg ER1-mkII or E-MX, a Novation A/K station; and for a mixer either a Yamaha 01V or a Mackie 1604 sometime the next two or three months. Doom has also been eying the Vermona DRM1 MKII.
As for the revolution, Doom wanted to buy it for the same reason he got the 777, just for the joy of squelchy acid noise.

He will look into that nord though.

And Doom will find a place to host the live acid set.
thank you

[mux]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

He was planning on purchasing a Korg ER1-mkII or E-MX, a Novation A/K station; and for a mixer either a Yamaha 01V or a Mackie 1604 sometime the next two or three months. Doom has also been eying the Vermona DRM1 MKII.

Hmm. If you're thinking of the ER-1, ignore the mkII version, it's exactly the same machine and costs a few hundred more. The ONLY differences between the original and the mkII are that the mkII has cross-modulation of the first two oscillators instead of the ring modulation of the original, and the mkII has a nicer aluminum case. hardly hundreds of dollars of difference. You should be able to get an ER-1 used for under $200 CAD.

01V's are wonderful in the studio, and great for live if you're REALLY CAREFUL. They break easy. Don't gig them hard, and make sure you get a flightcase. The 1604 is a wonderful mixer (I have one) but if I were buying it again, I'd save my pennies and get the new Mackie Onyx 1620 or 1220... similar in price to a new Mackie 1604-VLZ or 1202-VLZ, but have that extra firewire option for later on.

Re: Vermona DRM1 - check eBay for Simmons, Pearl, Syncussion and Tama gear. You can likely get one of those, an earlier drum synth with loads of character, for pretty cheap. I may be selling a Simmons SDS-9 here in the next few months - that'd fit right into your studio. I love analogue percussion like this, but watch out, regardless of what you may read about how flexible they are, they still sound like analogue toms no matter how you twist the knobs.

He will look into that nord though.

Do yourself that favour. The Nord is any synth you want it to be - it can scream like the FR-777, punch like the SH-101, do massive polyphonic strings like a Prophet 5, or be the most twisted goa/psy Chemical Brothers synth you can imagine. If you've ever thought to yourself "Man, this synth is cool, but I wish it had another envelope or LFO right *here*", then the Nord Modular is your new best friend.

[Akeel]

i listened to the whole thing. (which is quite an accomplishment for me)

some very nice patterns...my only comment is you should focus on putting together one track and putting it together well. a monkey can shit out rhythms all day, but putting together one cohesive piece is more difficult.

PS. Mux do you drive a golf that has a "mux" sticker on the side? like the one in your avatar?

[mux]

Originally Posted by Akeel

PS. Mux do you drive a golf that has a "mux" sticker on the side? like the one in your avatar?

Heheh, heya,

No - I do not own a car. I do, however, know five or six people with (MUX) stickers on their cars, tho interestingly none of them drive a Golf. I had 1000 of those stickers made up a few years ago, and made sure to get weatherproof ones - they're still showing up in the oddest places... :)

[Akeel]

haha thats a great idea man. i saw a golf driving up king george off the patullo the other day :P funny shit!