Producers are the new dj's?

[mux]

Originally Posted by dabbler

the seperation between "every other (shitty) live act" and the "A LIST live acts" is enormous. it's not like dj'ing, where there are always good dj's. live acts either SUCK HARD. or kick ass. there's not much room for anything in between.

Sort of. The road from "beginner live-pa" to "excellent live-pa" is WAY longer and harder than "beginner DJ" to "excellent DJ". Most live-pa acts suck for their first 20 times or so, but eventually, like any DJ, they figure it all out. It's a hybrid artform; you have to first learn to be a producer, then learn to be a *good* producer, learn to read and play to a crowd, *and* be a sound guy.

OTOH, folks like Mat Jonson, Phil Western, John Tennent and Ricardo Almeida, the Mad Knob Technicians, MAX POWER, Mile36, the Frazzletones, etc - all local live-pa acts that have figured it out, all of whom rock the house... if you haven't ever caught any of their acts, then you're just missing out.

It's worth comparing it to the rock scene... DJs are the big polished stadium lipsync show, live-pa is punk rock. There's a lot of shitty punk rock out there, and sometimes it seems like every kid in their garage with friends, with a guitar, a bass and a drumkit thinks they're the greatest new punk band. Oh well, at least they're playing their own music - if they keep at it long enough, they might even get good at it.

Personally, I think electronic music is currently where rock was in 1992, with the popular music getting more and more and more polished, and some Kurt Cobain type with a TB-303 and a bad attitude is just sitting in the shadows waiting to blindside everyone. :)

I feel bad for studio producers who are pressured into doing a live-pa by promoters, 'cause I don't think many of them have any idea what they're getting into.

If you've got no will whatsoever to listen to and appreciate some of the independant live electronic music coming out of Vancouver lately, that's your call, but I think you're missing out. FWIW, I haven't heard a DJ mix that has really impressed me in years.

[Crazy Dave]

Wow I have been saying this for about the past 5-6 years

[oddmud]

well i'm just horrible at both. ;)

[automatic]

Originally Posted by soma

dj Bailey is one of my favorite djs as he isn't djing as a producer. He's has the draw and the connection to get all the fresh tracks as he wants and is brilliant behind the desks. This quality and level of dj is not common any more.

agreed. and if i booked bailey for qa club gig (as i've been offered a few times in the past) the only people who would come out would be other djs, all of the kids in to drum and bass wouldn't know bailey if he hit them in the face.

[Séguin]

Its good to be both. I started out as a producer. Didn't DJ till about 4 or 5 years later. Once I started DJing, my track production became instantaly better and my tracks made more sence.

[baby-phat]

Originally Posted by influenza

well i'm just horrible at both. ;)

You sure are. ;) =P

[Lenny]

Uberzone kills it live as well. He works the controls and plays the beats while he has a scratch DJ do his thing overtop. He also incorperates visuals into the mix which overal makes the already good music even better. Or stick to production duo's like Atomic Hooligan where one dude is the DJ and the other spends more time in the studio.

Far as procuders sucking on the decks goes, how is that new? I'd hate to see a good producers tunes take a dive cause he want's to take the time out to learn how to scratch :P

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by angst

I don't care if you're the best producer out there if you can't mix live then i don't wanna see you live.

meh, best producer might = best music, unreleased material etc.
if the person in fact was the best producer out there I could let it slide no prob, but a person who calls themself dj and can barely string two tracks together... kinda gets you wondering what they're doing on the decks given the abundance of DJ's kickin around...

[b0ld]

Someone should bring NU NRG to vancouver.... then MANY people will see what live pa is all about.

[oddmud]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Someone should bring NU NRG to vancouver.... then MANY people will see what live pa is all about.

LOL!!

[miss.myra]

haha yeah um, please don't.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dave

Wow I have been saying this for about the past 5-6 years

yea, i've been saying that for years now too - ever since i actually heard someone introduce themselves as a producer...

[P.A.R.T.Y]

Production is a lot like Djing.
As a Dj, you have to know your sound. A producer also has to know what sounds to use from the synth. If you use crap sounds, or quality then your fucked.
The learing curve is a lot easier on turntables, but make no mistake, Dj'ing a 5 hour set is difficult. You need decent crowd pleasing records and stamina to maintain, not to mention the ability to avoid train-wrecking every second song.
As a producer, the learning curve is immense. You have 1000's of pages of reading to uncover, knowledge of subtractive synthesis, frequency of sound waves, gear to use, the cost is greater, etc..
What it all comes down to is: Djing is more fun, you get to play music to awesome people while you get paid. Producing is more rewarding, you've got music to call your own.
Personally, I love to do both.

[BenGiovanni]

I have found that most Dj's...if passionate about music will move on from the "playing records" phase to the ambition of trying to make your own. Then I noticed the passionate producers, grow into making their own sound. WITH that original sound, then can a producer say, "I have my own sound when I spin." Spinning isnt that hard... for the most part... I didnt own turntables for a good year (around the time I just started to play out.) I learned that once you get comfortable (and I mean really comfortable) with your mixing, then you dont even need to mix at all... especially if your looking at a screen manipulating music on your computer.

Knowing the concept/theory of music is more than enough, I can honestly be given 13 tracks to spin in an hour with out me listening to them before hand and I can pull it off (Unless the songs have those stupid ass 4 beat delays/breaks for a sample to play)... all I need is to have a copy of Traktor Dj Studio on my computer, mp3's of the records I have, and boom...I can mix EXACLY like with CD-j's but on a computer... dont get me wrong that practice helps but if you end up spinning at a friends 1 outta 7 days a weeks, its sufficient enough. Some dj's are at the point with their mixing (Yoji Biomehanika for instance...) he will beatmatch in less than 30 seconds...which isnt really that hard, and then performs til the cue comes up...some entertainers are horrible though.

Entertainers tend to get more crowd reaction and interaction, hence the name being spread because one person told their friend "Man this guy is amazing, he fucking performs aswell as plays dope tracks." Getting back to the turntables though, I bought turntables only to realise if you get into the scene deep, and talk to producers (and produce yourself)... the turntable investment turned out to be a waste of money, especially if you are barraged with unreleased tracks that wont make it to vinyl for another month (or ever in most producer cases.) CD's and digital media is the future believe it or not. Say you go on any big producer/dj's TOP10 Chart for the month, a nice load of them will have atleast ONE CD-R track (which is a sign that its a track still in the production phase that is still being worked on OR it just hasnt had the chance of being pressed). I personally say in the end... it doesnt matter why a dj gets booked, if its good music then its good music, its the promoters descision in the end on how much they feel they want to spend on their party.

[Disco_Whore]

I'm quite sure that the emergence of so many new producers i also in part due to the fact that you can easily get by producing with only a computer. Thanks to software you don't have to run out and buy a bunch of gear to start making music.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

^^^That is why there is so much shit 'music,' being produced. People think that they can make dope tracks with their cracked VST plug-ins alone. Add reason and wow, now your a superstar, I mean check out that awesome malstrom bass and that xtc2 kik, wow I rule.

[(val)Liam]

^^^^^

when the ability to produce is accessable so easily, anyone can start making tracks, regardless of their lack of knowledge of musical theory (scales, chords, phrasing, etc.) and mastering ability... I'd be more likely to believe this is why there is so much crap music out there... but if you stick with it, practice the piano and any other instruments of choice, it'll come together eventually...

[ill-esha]

Originally Posted by dabbler

and talking about "good" live acts, crystal method is a league of their own. the seperation between "every other (shitty) live act" and the "A LIST live acts" is enormous. it's not like dj'ing, where there are always good dj's. live acts either SUCK HARD. or kick ass. there's not much room for anything in between.

that's not true!

we are still working out bugs in our computer system, so i wouldn't say our live act kicks ass... but i think it's pretty good!

[fable]

Originally Posted by automatic

agreed. and if i booked bailey for qa club gig (as i've been offered a few times in the past) the only people who would come out would be other djs, all of the kids in to drum and bass wouldn't know bailey if he hit them in the face.

i didnt need to get in the face with bailey several years ago, his soul thunder mix just so happened to fall off the shelf in my hands at HMV, who knew!?

peace+respect
fable

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Bozga

Some dj's are at the point with their mixing (Yoji Biomehanika for instance...) he will beatmatch in less than 30 seconds...

30 seconds.... that's too slow mate! if you can't match a beat in 30 secs, you shouldn't be playing outside your bedroom, much less internationally...

real pros should have that shit locked within a measure. i kid you not.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by P.A.R.T.Y

^^^That is why there is so much shit 'music,' being produced. People think that they can make dope tracks with their cracked VST plug-ins alone. Add reason and wow, now your a superstar, I mean check out that awesome malstrom bass and that xtc2 kik, wow I rule.

^^this is the kind of attitude i'm sooo sick of hearing from people who think they're experts on production... "oh you NEED this, you NEED that, you can't make a record with THAT!" such bullshit. it's not the equipment, it's what ya do with it. and if geeks like this guy recognize your bass tones... who gives a fuck? If people genuinely dig the sounds & get down to it, then what's the problem. Plenty of hit records have been made using similar setups to what's described above, just as many people armed with state of the art hardware couldn't write a tune to save their lives.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

Originally Posted by Wood

^^this is the kind of attitude i'm sooo sick of hearing from people who think they're experts on production... "oh you NEED this, you NEED that, you can't make a record with THAT!" such bullshit. it's not the equipment, it's what ya do with it. and if geeks like this guy recognize your bass tones... who gives a fuck? If people genuinely dig the sounds & get down to it, then what's the problem. Plenty of hit records have been made using similar setups to what's described above, just as many people armed with state of the art hardware couldn't write a tune to save their lives.

Not saying you need to use good equiptment to make a good track, but it helps. Besides equiptment, it's just as important to Use good FX, EQing, Mixing, Pre-mastering, etc. However, using a decent source sound makes the other processes easier. This applies to Dj'ing as well.

[(val)Liam]

I just want to point this out, as I think its good for this discussion... if you look on the personal promo, there are tons of posts about dj mix demos, and on average they probably get 15-20 replies per post... the actual produced songs on the other hand, may average like 3-5 replies... if that... maybe I'm wrong, but thats what I've observed...

worth discussing...

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by Wood

^^this is the kind of attitude i'm sooo sick of hearing from people who think they're experts on production... "oh you NEED this, you NEED that, you can't make a record with THAT!" such bullshit. it's not the equipment, it's what ya do with it. and if geeks like this guy recognize your bass tones... who gives a fuck? If people genuinely dig the sounds & get down to it, then what's the problem. Plenty of hit records have been made using similar setups to what's described above, just as many people armed with state of the art hardware couldn't write a tune to save their lives.

you must spread some karma around before giving it to wood again.

a catchy tune is a catchy tune, even in midi format. so many producers think they can make tunes just cos they know engineering inside and out, but the fact is youu need creativity and a good ear before you need engineering school.