Feb 16, 07
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Feb 16, 07
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Are you guys saying "pedestool" on purpose?
The best thing about this thread is that gnosis is really insecure about the fact that no-one ever replies to his posts, and now he'll realize that he was better off when that was the case.
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Feb 17, 07
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Well that got derailed pretty quickly.
The only worthwhile contribution I have at the moment is to inform *Sunshyne* to remove her foot from her mouth already.
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Feb 17, 07
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or just leave FNK altogether.
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Feb 17, 07
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In relation to Immigrant and a perceived notion of immigrant values you are once again not putting things in the context of imperialism, attacks on immigrants, refugess or visible minorities and the economic undertone to all the attacks. By not connecting these elements, your analysis is very anemic and essentially almost completely false outside of your own narrow perspective and reletive lack of experience. Take a read of the following, I believe it will be a good start to getting a greater appreciation and understanding of what you were initially discussing. ez  Resisting Canadian Colonialism: The Indigenous Struggle for Self-DeterminationThe conventional approach to writing almost anything on the Indigenous question in America, generally and particularly in Canada is that we are reminded most of the time how important it is to understand the five hundred years of oppression and colonialism in this hemisphere. As important as it seems this question is, especially in Canada, the issue has been looked at like this: let’s talk about it so much that we forget to address it. The indigenous question or problem if you will, is not just how deep or severe the oppression is of these proud nation/s, or how their great culture has been destroyed by white Europeans. More importantly, the question poses itself politically in how the rights of indigenous people, including and specifically the right of self-determination, could play in the political struggle of the working class in this country against Capitalism and Canadian imperialism. What strategy or action program regarding indigenous people, as a most important ally of the working and poor people, do we need to develop that could help the process of unity in action not only against indigenous oppression but against oppression and for the liberation of all oppressed people: workers, farmers, women, youth, LGBT, people of colour etc. Canadian leftists and progressive movements have failed decisively in approaching the indigenous struggle and winning over their trust. The issue has been ignored, silenced, suppressed for a long, long time, regardless of being talked about and discussed a lot! The suppression of indigenous people and destruction of their culture is the basis of racism in Canadian society, which is deep rooted. No wonder nobody wants to talk about it. Most of the time it seems that it does not even exist! In relation to Germans who killed millions of innocent Jewish people during WWII era and the Canadian genocide of native people, we can observe that the Germans guilt is rooted in the past, but Canadian guilt is rooted in the present, and continues. For us though, the working class, one thing is important and vital, that without indigenous participation in the revolutionary movement for fundamental change there will be no liberation in this land, not for yourself, myself, or anyone. For Web PDF version click here For Printable PDF version click here  Sun Peaks Out of Skwelkwek'Welt!Since 1997, the Sun Peaks ski resort has been expanding into the territory of the Secwepemec people. The continued struggle of the Secwepemec people to regain their stolen territory is a fight for self-determination, the basic right of indigenous people to decide how their land will be used. This fight for self-determination challenges the very foundations of the colonial Canadian government, and contains dynamics that give it the potential to ignite widespread mobilization among poor, working, and oppressed people in Canada against occupation and injustice. The struggle in Skwelkwek’welt against the continued expansion of Sun Peaks is an example of the fight for sovereignty that is happening among different indigenous nations across North America. This fight to defend land and territory must be supported by indigenous and non-indigenous people to build a movement that can effectively challenge the continued theft of indigenous land and resources. For this reason, Fire This Time has supported the Secwepemc people who have been resisting the continued expansion of Sun Peaks onto their territory, including participating in several actions against Sun Peaks, as well as running regular stories and updates in the FTT newspaper to draw the attention of working and oppressed people in Canada to this struggle and its importance. This booklet is a selection of articles on the Skwelkwek’welt struggle from past issues of Fire This Time. For PDF version click here
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Feb 17, 07
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Feb 18, 07
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Ok im just going to remind again, because theres to much crap here to read all of it.
But in response to the europeans taking there land crap. I will remind you people. THAT EVERY KNOWN NATION ON THE PLANET HAS MOST LIKELY AT SOME TIME BEEN INVADED AND OCCUPIED, HAD THEIR LAND REMOVED, AND GIVEN NOTHING BUT DISCRIMINATION. So stop bitching about how the land is theirs, its irrelevant in the global scope of things. They should be content with what they have been given now. It is more then any othe rconquered people has ever been given.
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Feb 18, 07
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Feb 18, 07
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just to add to what Fable said;
he need for a revisionist destructionist propaganda - a critique of New Zealand Native Timber Milling activism. Once the communist regimes of Russia and China gained power, they realised to maintain the dictatorship of the proletariat against the reactionary forces of capital, they would have to institute mechanisms for the suppression of dissent and democracy. This involved the brutal and deliberate perversion of justice for the dissenters, and more widespread use of propaganda for the innocent and easily persuaded. Propaganda was not viewed with disdain, but as an effective tool to prevent the masses from straying away from thinking the thoughts that were good for them. That such an attitude and technique should have been picked up in the native forestry industry in New Zealand is initially surprising and a little bizarre, but closer inspection reveals deep parallels. Both the communist regimes and modern native forestry must hold the fort against substantial majority opinion - in the case of the former, people's love of freedom, in the latter their love of nature especially mountains, rivers, beaches and...forests. For propaganda to work there must be a central core of ideas and deeply held beliefs called ideology. A successful ideology has a coherent answer for everything, and such tolerates no effective dissent. Any citizen who questions any part of the ideology is automatically an enemy. For leaders like Stalin and Mao Zedong who were what would now be described as control freaks, effective use of propaganda would mean that their ideas were extolled as correct and universal and any heretical opinions must be silenced - by ideological means or otherwise. Propaganda meant that every application must have it's own tailored vocabulary. For organs like Pravda and People's Daily, key words like 'labour', 'sacrifice', 'heroic' , 'blood' and 'red' had enough emotional resonance to camouflage the more dubious content in the rest of text. Having the drawback of a substantially better educated population with much higher material expectations is both a curse and comfort for those who want to maintain the milling of native timber. If only the extraction of timber could be explained in such as way that no real harm seems to occur, then the public could perhaps be mollified. If the additional hint of a threat to lifestyle could be added, then a credible case for continued logging could be made. A Very Good Word must be found. ADVERTISEMENT The first Big Lie that fits the bill was the concept of 'sustainability'. There used to be a much more accurate and descriptive term called 'thinning' but this seems to have vanished like former party comrades in a retouch of a 1930's Politburo photograph, probably because it was too close to the truth. Sustainability sounds like nothing is really happening, that as a tree leaves, another magically takes it place. Also by another piece of magic, pest control is more effective as a result of this logging process, doing a much better job than the government's own conservation department. One wonders how the decent folk from Department of Conservation feel about the comments on their professionalism and results they are getting from native milling academics within their orbit. This is a very hard sell but is made easier by New Zealander's love of furniture made from timber which is, unfortunately for the local trees, superior to the imported products that grow so fast. Here a threat is used that if we do not use local native hardwoods, then they will have to be imported and someone else's forests will be cut down. This is indeed clever, but probably unintentionally ignores the massive slur that it makes upon the very courageous activists in countries like Indonesia , Malaysia and Brazil trying to halt an unimaginable level of destruction. So the second Big Lie is that stopping the milling of native timber impoverishes NZ by reducing the supply of timber for furniture makers and associated trades. NZ native timber is good for furniture it is true, but once upon a time all houses here were made with native timber and now practically none are. The resourceful NZ timber merchant and craftsperson adjusted to the reduction and will do so for furniture. Native furniture will go the way of the mink coat - nice to have but at too great a cost and a sign of political incorrectness of the highest magnitude, It won't happen overnight but it will happen. The best way to discredit an enemy is to steal his clothes. The native logging ideologues like to call themselves Conservationists but this is a contradiction within the paradigm of their own ideology. They are better described as Destructionists. Preservation and conservation are almost identical concepts. These terms mean to keep in store for the future. No logger is interested in the ecology of their environment any more than a farmer is interested in a retirement home for his stock. By definition, a logger must look at a tree in terms of dollars and cents. When a logger talks about sustainability, what they mean is the ability of forests to produce what the industry wants - a steady stream of revenue for as long as possible. Industries seldom think in terms of hundreds of years, especially in New Zealand where the massive level of private and corporate debt means financial planning seldom gets past paying next month's bills. Native trees typically have a life of centuries. Most of the pine investment schemes advertised on television promise a maturity within 1-2 human generations. The creation of wealth from native timber must cause the destruction of many trees. This is not conservation. For destructionists to claim that milling native timber is conservation is like saying Uncle Joe Stalin was a much misunderstood kindly old man. The death of even one tree is no trivial ecological or social event. A tree is host to millions of organisms of varying size and social complexity; a complete ecosystem all of its own. When a destructionist uses the word sustainability, the image of a massive forest giant falling to the ground killing scores of birds is not one that springs to mind - more like a bunch of careful guys going around picking a few small trees here and there. This is not the reality of commercial forestry and no logging company would last long with this sort of approach to operations. The credibility of the destructionists that the trees are being logged in a 'sustained' manner just isn't there - how can the public believe the opinions of a bunch of guys hired by a what is really a government department that employs companies to lie to the public. The truth is that they don't so here the destructionists must reach for the heavy artillery. Like a ideology committee deep inside the Kremlin, a classification of enemies of sustainability proceeds apace. Top of the list of traitors are the 'Preservationists', an evil malign presence who have never been out of the Auckland and are dupes of the sinister conspiracy called the Native Forest Action - a shadowy coalition of demented old dears ( obviously senile ) and mad “eco-nuts” who seem to love trees more than people. These are portrayed as the true enemies of conservation and the fact they wander around the forests with no commercial imperative demonstrates a desire to overthrow the natural order whereby New Zealand citizens could extract what they like from the environment. They are trying to take NZ back to the bad old days when their were no humans and birds ruled from the tops of the trees. So here a word has changed it's meaning. Preservation used to mean that things did not change and were kept for future generations. Destructionist ideology deems preservation to mean a mind state where any desire to set any area aside from human influence or exploitation is indicative of some sort of fallacious thinking, mental inadequacy, dubious hidden political agendas or complete hypocrisy by living the modern lifestyle yet still wanting to preserve native forests. Mindful of the influence that fashion and image have upon 21st century, it is necessary for the destructionist to paint a picture of modern environmentalists as out-of-touch, living in the past, out of tune with the times, ignorant and uneducated - not possessing the truth as held and told by the destructionists. Preservationists are the new Trotsky - enemies of the people and nature and perverters of the doctrines of the wise. The modern propaganda requires that Preservationists must also have have a bad image - "beards and sandals brigade".."haters of the West Coasters" .."latte drinking Aucklanders".."destroyers of local industries"... "fundamentalist' . Image is important to all forms of propaganda and no more so than in modern NZ political life. That a government department could employ a PR company to write bogus letters to the newspaper supporting native logging, create bogus pressure groups, engage in all matter of duplicitous and covert operations and not be breaking any law, criminal or commercial is indicative of the influence and power that the destructionists have been able to acquire and entrench. There is a problem for destructionists with the democratic system. While it is true that the vast majority of New Zealand citizens oppose native timber milling, it was not a problem while the National Party was in power. National represents the the interests of those who gain prosperity from the land and so would permit as much logging of native timber as could be allowed without serious political disruption to the NZ social fabric. However the election of the Labour/Alliance has meant that the destructionist lobby has had to break out of a tight little circle of PR companies and academia that had the National PM's ear and try to take on the environmental movement, the Labour/Alliance, the media, the lot. Like the early days of the communist party in the USSR and China, the initial attempts at public manipulation are crude and probably ineffectual, but nothing is so dangerous as a wounded vested interest and we can expect the pro-native timber lobby to engage in a furious barrage of propaganda to protect their revenue stream. At the moment,things are relatively quiet but the next stage will be the battle to protect native timber on private and Maori land and one can only wonder what extremes of deception, misinformation and discord that this issue will raise. Finally, the true test of propaganda is how it presents figures and here is a quote demonstrating the black art in it's magnificence " The need for a new environmentalism Friday, 14 July 2000, 3:19 pm Press Release: Chris Perley I heard recently that Timberlands received less than 50 hits (38, I heard 3rd hand) on its website showing their planning documents over the submission process in 1998. The media should reflect on this. Many on this e-mail list have read these plans - either in hard copy or on the web, while the 10 000 odd people who signed Forest & Bird's little postcard "sign-a-submission-against-Evil-Timberlands" can hardly claim to have done so. " This is a classic and takes the biscuit for contempt of the public. Here a public preference of a 10000 to 38 i.e. 263 to one against Destructionism is presented as deception/uninformed opinion on the part of the environmental movement and so automatically invalid. I welcome any comment on my observations. Adrian Picot A friend of the New Zealand Native forests.. [email protected] 025 749484 THIS ISSUE Lead NZ News NZ Politics World News Features New Zealand Politics POLITICAL NEWSLETTERS: Transtasman Political Letter – 8 Feb. Digest Transtasman Political Letter – 25 January Digest Communications Line Number 41 for 29 January 2007 AGENDA - Full Transcript – Helen Clark & Peter Beattie The Letter – Monday, 18 December 2006 One News Colmar Brunton Poll October 2006 Video/Text: Bush Intensifies Intel-War With Iran (press conf.) US President Bush delivered his first press conference since December 20 to intensify his intel war with Iran. George Bush said: "What we do know is that the Quds force was instrumental in providing these deadly IEDs to networks inside of Iraq. We know that. And we also know that the Quds force is a part of the Iranian government. That's a known. What we don't know is whether or not the head leaders of Iran ordered the Quds force to do what they did." See... Video/Text: Bush Press Conference on Iran/Iraq ALSO: # UN - UN: Deadly Attack On Bus In Iran Condemned Politics News: Labour Top Brass Move To Expel Field From Party - Prime Minister Helen Clark and President of the Labour Party Mike Williams say former Labour Cabinet Minister, Taito Phillip Field's public comments amount to an announcement of intention to run against Labour at the next election. The comments, they say, have invited expulsion. His membership of the Labour Party is effectively at an end. The President will now be recommending Mr Field's expulsion to the New Zealand Council of the Party. See... Prime Minister Announces Phillip Field's Expulsion ALSO: # National - Field defiant, Clark exposed as weak # National - Green influence should make motorists afraid # Maori Party - Pasifika Voices must be heard says Maori Party Scoop Image: Helen ClarkScoop News: PM's Speech - Sustainability Of The Nation - It’s my privilege to present this annual statement to Parliament setting out the government’s priorities for the year ahead. Last year’s statement set out an ambitious programme, and a great deal has been achieved. That has been due in no small part to the constructive working relationships Labour and the Progressive Party have with other parties in the House... See... Clark: Prime Minister’s Statement ALSO: # Scoop Full Coverage and Reaction - PM's Statement 07 Environment: Ministers' Give Up Throaty Engine Roar For Planet's Wellbeing - The Labour Government is perhaps fortunate that maverick ex-MP John Tamihere lost his seat in the last election. If Mr Tamihere was still an MP there potentially would have been an outcry from the passionate former West Auckland MP at the Government's latest move – reducing the mana of the ministerial car fleet. See... Ministers Make Ultimate Sacrifice For Planet ALSO: # NZ Govt - Ministerial Cars To Meet Emissions Standards Conservation: Carter Objects To Not Very Civil Southern Ocean Behaviour - Conservation Minister Chris Carter today flatly rejected threats from the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society following a violent confrontation between protest ships and a Japanese Whaling vessel in the Southern Ocean. "The Japanese whaling ship, the Kaiko Maru, issued a distress call this evening following a confrontation with two Sea Shepherd ships. See... Sea Shepherd should back off says Carter Helen Clark says Mortgage Tax is a dead duck.Mortgage Tax A Dead Duck - PM - With Parliament sitting for the first time in 2007 this week the Prime Minister's post cabinet press conference contained something of a preview of what is likely to come up in tomorrow's question time. Nuclear arms manufacturer investments by the NZ Super Fund received short shrift from the PM during the course of the conference, as did the idea of a Mortgage Tax which the PM says Michael Cullen did not "float" on Friday. A mortgage tax was now a dead duck she said. See... Audio: PM's Presser Monday, February 12, 2007 MORE: Scoop Audio.Scoop Streaming Audio (click here to listen):PM's Press Conference, 12/02/07 Scoop Audio.Click to download the file (MP3) ALSO: # National - Clark’s stoush with media shows Govt is shaky Scoop Graphic by Lyndon HoodSuper News: Govt Investing In Nuke Manufacturing Co.s - Greens - A Green Party report released today shows that the Government’s New Zealand Super Fund is investing taxpayers’ money in nuclear weapons’ manufacture. Greens’ Co-Leader and Economics’ Spokesperson Russel Norman says the report - Betting the Bank on the Bomb – reveals that Labour’s New Zealand Super Fund has invested millions of dollars in businesses that the Norway Pension Fund will not touch on ethical grounds. Graphic by Lyndon Hood. See... Super Fund must stop investing in nuclear bombs ALSO: # Greens - Super Fund nukes’ investments unethical & Illegal? Te Ururoa FlavellEducation: 53% of Maori Boys Leave School With NCEA Level One - Te Ururoa Flavell, Education Spokesperson for the Maori Party, today spoke out about yet another instalment of dispiriting statistics, describing the under-performance of the education system with respect to Maori. Research released today showed that in 2005, 53% of Maori boys left school without even level one of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), compared with 20% of Pakeha boys. See... “Education Ministry heading for bankruptcy” ALSO: # NZ Govt - Steady progress in Maori education # National - Maori students need more than promises # Massey University - Code-cracking adventures for kura kaupapa kids Immigration: Is Govt Purposely Dragging The Chain On Zaoui Case? - The Immigration Minister David Cunliffe needs to give an explanation for his refusal to allow the family of Algerian refugee Ahmed Zaoui to be re-united in the interim while the SIS and Inspector-General Paul Neazor drag their feet on the review of his case, Green Party Human Rights Spokesperson Keith Locke says. "There is no way the presence of the family on a temporary visa can affect how the Inspector-General does his job." See... Government in denial over Zaoui case ALSO: # NZ Govt - Zaoui family decision # NZ First - Zaoui Should Join His Family Over There # Earlier:Greens - Zaoui Delays Mean Family Should Be Re-United Here Tax: Bill Gets a Bash from Cullen on Mortgage Tax - National leader John Key and finance spokesman Bill English are clearly at odds over the concept of a mortgage levy, which could potentially ease pressure on exporters, Finance Minister Michael Cullen said today. Cullen: "...the attitude of Mr English is a disappointing start to his tenure as finance spokesman and I am sure many exporters would agree" See... Key and English divided over economic policy ALSO: # National - Dr Cullen’s New Mortgage Tax # Employers And Manufacturers Association - Tax on interest rate unorthodox # Canterbury Manufacturers Association - CMA on Mortgage Levy # Wood Processors Association - Wood Processors Support Mortgage Levy ProposalLevy Obituary: Kiwi Scientists Romance With Chemistry Comes To An End - Professor Alan MacDiarmid was an outstanding scientist and an exceptional New Zealander, Research Science and Technology Minister Steve Maharey said today. "Through his long and distinguished career, Professor MacDiarmid made an outstanding contribution to chemistry and the New Zealand science community," Steve Maharey said. See... Alan MacDiarmid an exceptional New Zealander ALSO: # Massey University - MacDiarmid an inspiration to young scientists # NZ Govt - Tribute to Professor Alan MacDiarmid # National - Tribute for a Kiwi scientist # John Key - Celebrate the life of a can-do Kiwi # Progressive Party - Alan MacDiarmid - a great New Zealander # ALSO: Death of Helen DuncanNZ Govt - Death of Helen Duncan # Greens - Greens acknowledge former Labour MP Helen Duncan Political Headlines # NZ Govt - Budget date announced # NZ Govt - Local Government Rates Inquiry Starts Consultation # National - NCEA botch-up needs explanation # NZ Govt - Te Roroa Settlement Bill introduced to Parliament # National - Waverley teachers babysit empty classrooms # National - More Maori wagging school Political Columns: # Pansy Wong - Pansy Speak: the ‘sustainability’ slogan # Murray McCully - www.mccully.co.nz - 16 February 2007 # Heather Roy - Heather Roy's Diary Address And Reply Debate # Hone Harawira - Ae Marika: Life is tough, take time out to laugh # Marc Alexander - Marc My Words: Welcome to Deadwood BREAKING NEWS FROM PARLIAMENT Click Here... ******* SCOOP FULL COVERAGE: BUDGET 2006 click for... BUDGET COMMENTARY AND REPORTS click for... BUDGET PRESS RELEASES click for... (COMPLETE) BUDGET REACTION click for... BUDGET PREVIEWS click for... PRE-BUDGET ANNOUNCEMENTS AND REACTION FOR MORE POLITICS NEWS HEADLINES --> CLICK HERE <-- SCOOP BUDGET 2005 - FULL COVERAGE MOVIE: The Good Shepherd Search Businesses - findA MORTGAGE Calculators NZ REAL ESTATE Online Used Cars For Sale - finda If You Like It - ScoopIt! FEATURED MOVIE: The Good Shepherd starring Matt Damon. Watch the preview here! Sitewide Most Read 1 Death Toll In Migrant Tragedy Reaches 107 2 Greenpeace arrives with Nisshin Maru 3 Nisshin Maru Facts And Photographs 4 Update 4: Nisshin Maru Fire 5 Nelson/Marlborough To Lose $1.3 Billion 6 Business Briefing: The NZ – China Connection 7 UQ Wire: Brzezinski On The Path To War With Iran 8 Libby & Destruction of CIA Counter-Proliferation 9 Climate change calls for cross-party response 10 Under Age Drinking Under Review More Scoops Parliament Politics World Business Sci-Tech Culture Education Regional Health SEARCH New Zealand's Independent News Media powered by NewsAgent Quote:
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Feb 18, 07
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The point here people is that major offenses have taken place on a sustained basis against the Native people of this province since the first European settlers arrived. It was not until the 1970's/1980's that any effort was made to rectify these actions. So anyone who stands up and acts all surprised that this issue won't just go away is being pretty foolish.
the core of this argument is that settlements were reached over a hundred years ago between the BC government and natives. We never respected those treaties so they are now having to be redrawn. As an example the Burrard Band was given right to most of the land that modern day Kitsilano now sits on. I believe it's the Musqueam band that was given all the land starting from the Second Narrows bridge to Deep Cove. So if people really want to pissed off that we owe such a massive debt to Natives they should be mad at the people who negotiated these treaties not the Natives who were fucked out of their lands.
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Feb 18, 07
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well fucken said, senior.
excellent posts! props Quote:
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Feb 18, 07
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The first Big Lie that fits the bill was the concept of 'sustainability'. There used to be a much more accurate and descriptive term called 'thinning' but this seems to have vanished like former party comrades in a retouch of a 1930's Politburo photograph, probably because it was too close to the truth. Sustainability sounds like nothing is really happening, that as a tree leaves, another magically takes it place. Also by another piece of magic, pest control is more effective as a result of this logging process, doing a much better job than the government's own conservation department. One wonders how the decent folk from Department of Conservation feel about the comments on their professionalism and results they are getting from native milling academics within their orbit.
Weyerhaeuser manages its forests for the sustainable production of wood and wood products that meet our customers’ needs.We are committed to
independent certification of our forest management and to meeting the principles and objectives of applicable forest certification systems. The elements of this standard apply to company-owned and managed lands worldwide. •We harvest at sustainable rates over the long term. •We encourage the use of non-timber products and services from the forest. •We reforest promptly after harvesting by planting within the first available planting season, not to exceed twenty-four months, or by planned natural regeneration methods within five years or as provided in an applicable license. •We employ reliable processes in using forest chemicals to meet our silvicultural and environmental objectives in compliance with applicable laws, best management practices (BMPs), and label directions, and in conformance with applicable certification standards. •We protect soil stability and ensure long-term soil productivity by using equipment and practices appropriate to the soil, topography and weather to minimize erosion and harmful soil disturbance. •We use forestry practices and technology to retain organic matter and soil nutrients. •We maintain healthy forests and minimize losses caused by fire, insects and disease. •We meet or exceed applicable water quality laws and best management practices to protect water quality,water bodies and riparian areas. •We protect water quality by practicing sound road construction and maintenance. •We provide a diversity of habitats for wildlife and contribute to conservation of biological diversity through practices or programs that address habitat diversity and conservation of plants and animals at multiple scales, in accordance with applicable certification programs or other locally accepted standards. •We protect threatened and endangered species and cooperate with government agencies to determine how our forestlands can contribute to their conservation. •We consider aesthetic values by identifying sensitive areas and adapting our practices accordingly and in conformance with applicable certification standards. •We identify special ecological, geologic, cultural and historical sites and manage them in a manner appropriate for their unique features. This is a very hard sell but is made easier by New Zealander's love of furniture made from timber which is, unfortunately for the local trees, superior to the imported products that grow so fast. Here a threat is used that if we do not use local native hardwoods, then they will have to be imported and someone else's forests will be cut down. This is indeed clever, but probably unintentionally ignores the massive slur that it makes upon the very courageous activists in countries like Indonesia , Malaysia and Brazil trying to halt an unimaginable level of destruction. So the second Big Lie is that stopping the milling of native timber impoverishes NZ by reducing the supply of timber for furniture makers and associated trades. NZ native timber is good for furniture it is true, but once upon a time all houses here were made with native timber and now practically none are. The resourceful NZ timber merchant and craftsperson adjusted to the reduction and will do so for furniture. Native furniture will go the way of the mink coat - nice to have but at too great a cost and a sign of political incorrectness of the highest magnitude, It won't happen overnight but it will happen. The best way to discredit an enemy is to steal his clothes. The native logging ideologues like to call themselves Conservationists but this is a contradiction within the paradigm of their own ideology. They are better described as Destructionists. Preservation and conservation are almost identical concepts. These terms mean to keep in store for the future. No logger is interested in the ecology of their environment any more than a farmer is interested in a retirement home for his stock. By definition, a logger must look at a tree in terms of dollars and cents. When a logger talks about sustainability, what they mean is the ability of forests to produce what the industry wants - a steady stream of revenue for as long as possible. Industries seldom think in terms of hundreds of years, especially in New Zealand where the massive level of private and corporate debt means financial planning seldom gets past paying next month's bills. Native trees typically have a life of centuries. Most of the pine investment schemes advertised on television promise a maturity within 1-2 human generations. The creation of wealth from native timber must cause the destruction of many trees. This is not conservation. For destructionists to claim that milling native timber is conservation is like saying Uncle Joe Stalin was a much misunderstood kindly old man. The death of even one tree is no trivial ecological or social event. A tree is host to millions of organisms of varying size and social complexity; a complete ecosystem all of its own. When a destructionist uses the word sustainability, the image of a massive forest giant falling to the ground killing scores of birds is not one that springs to mind - more like a bunch of careful guys going around picking a few small trees here and there. This is not the reality of commercial forestry and no logging company would last long with this sort of approach to operations. The credibility of the destructionists that the trees are being logged in a 'sustained' manner just isn't there - how can the public believe the opinions of a bunch of guys hired by a what is really a government department that employs companies to lie to the public. The truth is that they don't so here the destructionists must reach for the heavy artillery. Many kinds of trees, shrubs, grasses and other plants grow in managed forests. Most of these plants grow and reproduce on their own. Depending on the climate of each region, Weyerhaeuser foresters plant numerous species of trees, including Douglas fir, noble fir, loblolly pine, white spruce, jack pine and red alder. We consider the landscape, elevation, soil, climate and other variables for each site when deciding which species to plant. Sometimes we plant species such as cottonwoods, Sitka spruce or cedar to accomplish specific goals, including fish habitat improvement. We also take great care to maintain the genetic diversity of our seedlings to ensure hardy, diseaseand pest-resistant trees. Managed forests include a variety of special habitats such as wetlands, meadows, caves, rocky slopes or alpine forest. Each type of habitat supports different animals and plants that benefit from those conditions. Different animals and plants are attracted to a managed forest at various stages in the harvesting and replanting cycle. Over time and across the landscape, managed forests help maintain biodiversity by supporting hundreds of different species of plants and animals — particularly those that need forest openings and trees of various ages. I just copied that from a few notes at work. I work in the forestlands for Weyerhaeuser. What firsthand knowledge or expierance do you have? I agree that there where bad forestry practices in place and i am not defending them, but please don't judge all companies the same. But back to the first post it is private land not Crownland. What is your position if a native band claimed the land your condo was built on? Would you just hand over your keys and walk away? Last edited by Spoon; Feb 18, 07 at 06:55 PM.
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Feb 18, 07
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Can I get the Cole's Notes version?
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German man chain saws house in two in divorce split, takes his half
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how the fuck do we get 5 members and 84 guests?
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