Mustangs or Camaros???

[Somatic]

Why do people like Mustangs so much??? I don't know what the deal is. F-bodies(Camaros and Firebirds), have gotten a bad rap over the last couple years. People just don't buy F-cars anymore. but yet the Mustang is a sales success, with the strongest sales they have had since the 60's.

Why??? The Camaro/Firebird looks better and is a hell of a lot faster. Handling is not even an issue. Did I mention that it is also cheaper??

Your opinions???

-Dwight:063:

[bob]

domestic cars... ewwwww...

[mister-peenutt]

ahhahaha

you know i'm an F-body man myself... mmmm

[Somatic]

Bob, let me ask you a question. I can see you're an import guy. But what import car staisfies these criteria???

1. low 13sec/105mph et's

2. 160 mph capability

3. 0.9g's through the skidpad

4. 26 - 30mpg on the highway

5. 30,000 cdn/20,000us asking price

If you said none, that's right. The point that I'm trying to make is that the most popular imports are FWD 4 cylinders. High end power is great, but these cars do it at the expense of low end tourque. Most of them are IMHO, overpriced as well.

My question is why??? How does an overpriced, slow Integra out sell a car that meets the criteria above? Looks are not even an issue.

But this thread was not intended to be import versus domestic. It is Mustang versus F-body. How does a car that is so much slower sell so much more???

The best bet is the sales of the V6 convertibles, which are the bread and butter models. The majority of the people that buy these cars are women. I can see why most women would not like an f-car because of the ergonomics.

But the f-car is a car built for enthusiasts by enthusiasts. That is all good for a person like myself, but maybe that was GM's mistake.

-Dwight:063:

[BeatItFarmer]

What about supra's, rx7's, talon's, skyline's etc...those are some pretty sweet imports and they are RWD or AWD...I think ppl that like imports and try and get em real fast have more satisfaction of making a stock 17 sec 1/4 mile car drop to 12 sec then domestics get in making there cars drop in time....well anyways it's all preference and a nice car is a nice car import or domestic....here's two pages with good msg boards for domestic and imports... www.streetracing.org and www.superhonda.com or .org

[Somatic]

We're talking aboot brand new cars here, BeatItFarmer. Half the cars you mentioned aren't even made anymore and the Skyline cannot be classified as an import since it is not officially imported here. It is not sold in Nissan dealers as a new car. Yes, there are companies in the states that import them(Motorex?), but that doesn't count since they are used.

Bad Ass car though. I would love to own an R-33. Then I'd call up HKS........ but that's a whole different thread, heh.

MKIV Supra's(I LOVE that car) still go for 40 g's for fuck's sake. And as for RX7's, have you tried looking for a 3rd gen? Take a look in the buy and sell. They are so rare.

All cars in the F-body's price range come nowhere close. Bone stock Z28's and Formula's are the fastest things you can buy for 30 g's, no questions asked. The only car that even comes within spitting distance is a Mustang. That's why I started this thread.

Your arument about taking a 17 second car and putting it into the 12's is a valid one, but only of you are made of money. You're gonna need some serious engine work to get into the 12's. Small Block Chev's need only bolt ons. For example, you can buy a '93 LT1 Camaro with an automatic and do some intake and exaust work. Then spend another grand on a nice converter and you're in the mid 12's right there. 2 g's on top of a 12 grand asking price? How could you go wrong with that? Spend another $700 and spray it. High 11's right there.

Any car can be made to go fast. Why not start with a better base?

The point I am trying to make is that the F-body is so fast and so cheap, it boggles the mind. It's a shame that 2002 will be their swan song.

How the fuck can GM not sell these things? It makes me wonder about the state of today's youth.

-Dwight:063:

[cLinK]

aaaaaaah too technical with all the car stuff!!!!

but my choice???

ummmm

i'm gonna say camaro... i see too many mustangs. its' all the same... there are just too many of them. hmph

but what do i know about cars???

hahahah

[PartEkid]

Quick cars if you have the money for very expensive gas...
Those things eat gas like crazy...
Personally, I like imports better... better looking, more sporty, good on gas and its and Import!
Any import is nice!
Right now I'm saving up money for an engin for my RX-7
It's gonna be Pimped!
=)

-Kam

[mister-peenutt]

Originally posted by cLinK


i'm gonna say camaro...

WOOHOO YOU'RE AWESOME!!! EVEN MORE SO NOW!!!

[Somatic]

RX-7's good on gas?? Please. Any Mazda rotary will not return the same kind of mileage that a new LS1 will return. My friend has a '93 RX-7 with a freshly rebuilt rotary and he gets 250 km's to the tank. Any self respecting RX-7 owner will tell you the same thing.

How does a car that gets 22city/30hwy mpg a gas guzzler? Tell me, I'd like to know.

As for reliabilty, well let's just say that Mazda rotaries are finicky, to say the least.

You just don't see any F-body owners saying, "Yeah, I blew my stock LT1."

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and I think your opinion on imports is inflated to say the least. How did you come to the conclusion that an import is more sporty than a domestic? Again, tell me, I'd like to know. Please elaborate. Some examples are more than welcome.

-Dwight:063:

PS, this thread is about Mustangs and Camaros, juss os you know.

[KitKat]

I just wanna say to everyone that CAMAROS are da fucken shit. all those little rice burners (no offence :o) but anyways yeah my buddy has a 97 SS and it is fucken DOPE. it has not lost to a mustange yet and it is fucken stock. What kinda power is that shiiit. Mustanges are WAY to boxie. there ugly. The only thing that there good for is droping panties on the girls. When girls here mustange its just that WHOA. I dunno what it is about them but it just get them wet haha!! But i dunno i think that CAMAROS are way nicer i will bring my friends car (97 SS stock ) and then u can compair it to a stock poostange. I have said my 2 bits so yeah buddy im with u on the F-body situation though.

[BeatItFarmer]

even though ur high school licked balls ur interest in cars makes me happy.....u know ur shit and that is a good thing...it's true about the rotary engines in the RX-7's....even though those are sweet cars they too suck up a lot of gas and aren't reliable like most imports....It all breaks down to personal opinion...myself I would take either or...depending on price/deal , condition etc....like I said a good car is a good car and any true car enthusiast can't deny that....

Somatic little question for u....my friends say the IROC Z28 is better than an SS....call me an idiot if I'm wrong but isn't an SS a Z28 that's been tuned up? I always thought it went SS, RS, IROC Z28, Z28, then whatever the base is called....is that right?

[bob]

take a mustang or a camaro for a test drive. see how many times u have to hit a gas station, driving from richmond to chilliwack.

my friend has a 99 mustang cobra, and i think we stopped... 3 times for gas...

my other friend drives a 94 celica. we made it from surrey to chilliwack, and back to surrey, on 1 tank.

and who the fuck wants to listen to the loud fuckin' engines on those cars? it sounds kinda like 10 guys belching...

i prefer the ninja-like style of imports, and i'd rather have my ear drums blown out by the system in my car, rather than the engine...

i'm no car buff or anything... but i like to think i have some taste, and opinion on what's classy, and what belongs in surrey...

speaking of surrey, do u know how many damn mustangs & camaros there are in surrey? that just goes to show how shitty those cars are. ...says alot about the kind of people that buy them...


...then again, i could bash integra's just as much... except type R's...


i've wanted a volkswagon golf gti-vr6 since i was 15... drive it down to mexico... drinkin' margaritas - bangin' senoritas... yeaaaaaa... anyways...


everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

[Somatic]

Originally posted by bob:
my friend has a 99 mustang cobra, and i think we stopped... 3 times for gas...

No offence to your friend's Cobra, in the Blue Oval's attempt to catch up to GM's new LS1's they tweaked their 32 valve 4.6. Their attempts proved to be in vain. These tweaks led to one of the most recalled Mustangs in history. Shotty upper and lower intake manifolds as well as similar problems in the exaust tract led to an overrated 4.6. Aside from not reaching its 320 horse rating, fuel economy as well as drivability was severely compromised.

Ford/SVT discontinued Cobra production midway through the '99 model year. It's pretty sad how a limited production, hand assembled motor cannot even touch the mass produced LS1.

Props to the UAW boys in Romulus, Michigan. Each and every one is a pushrod masterpiece.

I am not sure if you're friend is aware of the above mentioned events but a lenghthy stay at a Ford Quality Care Centre should be on the platter.

This is not intended as a flame, bob. I am merely trying to figure out what has happened to my beloved F-body.

The fuel economy issue has been overinflated by Japanese car manufacturers, IMHO. GM, in its eternal hard headedness has been slow to address this issue. The real deal behind this issue is that, through the magic of electronic fuel injection, small block V8's are damn good on gas. New LS1 F-bodies are rated at 25city/32hwy, regardless of trim. They do not reach that in real life(no car ever does) but they do approach the area of 30mpg in 6th gear, provided you are easy on the go pedal. I work at a GM dealer and drive my owner's Vette to his house in Tswassen on a regular basis. The gas gauge does not move.

But, that's a Vette you say? All new Corvettes, with the exception of the ZO6, is powered by the same LS1 that occupies the engine bays of late model F-bodies. The suposed difference in camshafts is non existent.

I have also delivered new SS Camaros to customer that are too lazy to come out and get them. One of these customers(which I thank God for his laziness) lived out in Chilliwack. After getting scared I would get my liscence revoked, I selected 6th gear and engaged the cruise control at 100 km/h. The tank was full and the fuel gauge read a little over 3/4 of a tank upon my arrival in Chilliwack.

I guess your buddy's Celica needs a tune up.

If that's not enough for you, my friend's '91 Trans Am made it from here to Penticton one one tank at 140 km/h, with that A/C blowing cold and with four dudes in it. And it was an automatic.

Originally posted by BeatItFarmer:
Somatic little question for u....my friends say the IROC Z28 is better than an SS....call me an idiot if I'm wrong but isn't an SS a Z28 that's been tuned up? I always thought it went SS, RS, IROC Z28, Z28, then whatever the base is called....is that right?

Although you are right aboot the SS being a tweaked Z28, you are, as you mentioned above, an idiot. But that's juss because you went to VC. Other than that, you're cool. Heh, I'd never thought I'd be giving props to a VC guy. :031:

IROCs were a special edition 3rd generation Z28. This a was a great marketing move on GM's part as the Camaro was the dominant platform in International Race Of Champions. The IROC name discontinued in 1991 and has not resurfaced since.

Base Camaros are just that, Camaros. Next comes the RS, which in past years has been a lower powered verison of the Z28. In fourth generation cars it became a V6 model with factory installed ground effects. It too, has been discontinued. Z28 was an RPO(regular prduction order, used to ease dealer ordering) that emerged in 1969 that included a 302 cubic inch small block as well as a road race suspension. 602 examples were churned out in 1969 to satisfy Trans Am regulations. It juss so happened that it sounded cool, and the name has stuck for 35 years. SS was a term that mostly included interior and exterior trim in small block as well as big block cars.

The basic SS formula continues on to this day and consists of a hood, spoiler, 17 inch wheels, 3.42's out back, 275/40/17 rubber and other SLP installed options. Firehawks and WS6 Trans Ams and Firebirds recieve a similar treatment. The extra 15 horse comes from bigger SLP pipes and a matching muffler.

Overpriced, yes, but you can't argue with the looks.

Good to know there are other guys who are as passionate aboot automobiles as I am.

-Dwight:063:

P.S. VC takes it up the ass. Ha ha sucka!!!!

[~lazee_grrl~]

whoa...so much car talk!!...ahhhhhh...sorry..i have close to no clue wut u guys are talking about~
mustangs and camaros..i pick camaros..the name just sounds nicer and it looks better..i think~:029:

[Automatik]

Hahaha, cured this dilemma, I have a 1967 Mustang, Classic, and a 1960-something Camaro... hahaha

*rich--yet poor tweed*

~j

[mister-peenutt]

all i can say is don't mess with somatic on this topic because he is the BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE!!!

haha and bob.. my friend has a 87regal t-type (its a 3.8v6 turbo) and he makes it from coq-langley-coq-maple ridge on 1/4 tank of gas and thats driving like a mad man...

[wundergirl]

i saw this guy with a camaro propped up on cinder blocks. he was takin parts out of a station wagon and puttin em into da maro.
camaros always make me think of white trash and ultra-raunchy natives.

mustangs all the way. my friend jon drove a 99 mustang cobra

*drooooolz*:029:

[Somatic]

Originally posted by wundergirl:
camaros always make me think of white trash and ultra-raunchy natives

Apparantly, this view is shared by many other than yourself. This has been a qualm of mine ever since imports became mainstream hot rods.

My question is why??? Where does this attitude come from??

-Dwight:063:

[SSEI uhh ohh]

Originally posted by PartEkid
Quick cars if you have the money for very expensive gas...
Those things eat gas like crazy...
Personally, I like imports better... better looking, more sporty, good on gas and its and Import!
Any import is nice!
Right now I'm saving up money for an engin for my RX-7
It's gonna be Pimped!
=)

-Kam

ha ha the only good rx7 is the one i saw at bcit which a white dude swapped a 5.0 or some sort of demestic block!!:024: It said v8 on the back and rx7's are not v8.........and it sure as hell didn't sound like any import just like a nicely done out stang or camaro.NOW that was an rx7!!!
-Trevor

[Somatic]

That's a stupid RX-7, Tribs.

Pure, unadulterated blasphemy.

-Dwight:063:

[SSEI uhh ohh]

Originally posted by Somatic
That's a stupid RX-7, Tribs.

Pure, unadulterated blasphemy.

-Dwight:063:

ZAZAZAZAZAZA...........blow you away
-Trevor

[SSEI uhh ohh]

Since we are on the topic CAMARO'S all tha way...........my buddy had a 97 or 98 camaro SS with nitros and it was fuckin' awsome until someone stole it and torched it!!I'd never buy a mustang but i have seen some pretty sweet ones though
-Trevor