is ancient history a lie?

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

But saying that history is thousands of years shorter then thought and all these civilizations were created, and based off Eurpean cultures (And why are other nations following this) because of some Church conspiricay is complicating and distorting the facts far more then the should.

is that the jist of the video?...i didnt watch it...ive really gotten to the point where ive read and taken in sooooo much of this stuff it all just hurts my head.

i lean towards the opposite. it seems 'history' (lol),and human civilizations are thousands of years older then thought and beleived.

but,there is so much information and knowledge that has been lost to both time and conquerors that its extremely foolish to take anything as proof or fact

one thing that i do know for absolute sure,and no respectable researcher can deny, is that the 'modern' established scientific/academic comunities are still reeling from the vatican's 1500+ or so years of systematic alteration and pathological hoarding of information only to be tailored to suit their will....

the west,church bla bla all that stuff have some extremely powerful, deeply entrenched and perfected mechanisms of information control.if i were them id use that power to aid in my agenda as well...

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Regardless, it looks like we've got something to debate over beers if you stick around after closing on Friday.

lol....i dunno about that one, i might be tying on a few that nite, we'll see...

our last one was pretty funny...i think it ended something like:

john:'ok chris, ive heard all your points and they all sound good but,....*hiccup*...ill leave you with this.....ALIENS DID IT ALL AND I WATCHED IT ON YOUTUBE!'

chris: 'sigh,your a moron'

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

A technique that was perfected over the years, starting with simple Mastaba's to step pyramids to the famous pyramids of Giza. The size and perfection of the technique which was perfected over time, then slowly degraded as Egypt lost wealth and man power.

you mean alien power right???

I MEAN....MARKPAUL IMMMMA RIGHT?

[NinjaBoy]

Yeah the gist of the video is that history is many many millenia shorter then once thought (I've read some of his articles as well, and it is generally only discuss westren civilization).

All these empires (Egyptian, Chinese etc...) were created in the middle ages by the church, and have since become a conspiracy that they protect. Christ was born 1053 AD for example.

Which is really confusing since the reigning pope leo IX probably would have noticed this...

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Yeah the gist of the video is that history is many many millenia shorter then once thought (I've read some of his articles as well, and it is generally only discuss westren civilization).

All these empires (Egyptian, Chinese etc...) were created in the middle ages by the church, and have since become a conspiracy that they protect. Christ was born 1053 AD for example.

Which is really confusing since the reigning pope leo IX probably would have noticed this...

I think people who beleive in these types of stories seriously underestimate human failibility. Even in modern times with advanced technology which would appear entirely alien to anyone who existed a thousand years ago we arent able to concot such grand schemes.

There is just such a huge body of evidence that counters these type's of theories its not even worth investigating them. Of course, as with holocaust denial there are those that will advance such implossible theories inorder to further their own adgenda. Its always seems to discredited zealots who have expertise in other areas of academics that push these views. Don't you think if this conspiracy were true all those millions of atheist anthropolgists who dedicate their life to study would've uncovered such a grand scheme, i dunno, 150 years ago?

[decypher]

lol those videos are retarded. Pure marketing for conspiracy buffs, just like they have marketing for rebels and grandmothers.

I caught this pretty sweet line near the end:

"more fascinating then dan brown at his wildest, but it is truly a nonfiction work that goes to say that everything you have read about history should be classified as fiction." oh noes amazon here comes my credit card.


It's hard to get any context out of that video but i did read lightly into the topic. I'm highly skeptical of mathematical logic being applied to history. But i love a good radical mess shit up theory so i'll look into this more.

<paraphrase>
He is essentially using statistical methods and mathematics to correlate historical texts together from different time periods.

He has found astronomical correlations and refutes the reliability of carbon dating. But he has been criticized for using a statistical method that selects certain texts in history that correlate highly but ignoring others that don't. </paraphrase>

So basically his logic is starting from a larger and i would say ideological basic to a theory and then uses his math and long winded speech to prove his point.

If you look at the politics too. He's allied with kasparov the chess champion turned opponent to Putin's 'dynasty.' They have similar ideological beliefs about history so there's an obvious bias right there. By no way am i refuting that history has been written and burned in many aspects but it's hard to see it so drastically change in this manner. There's some obvious flaws in fomenko's theory off the bat.


The ideological nature wouldn't surprise me though, Using mathematical perspectives have been used in many places as a form of power. Look at neoliberalism and how the underlying ideology, based on games theory, is a reductionist concept of social reality. These sorts of logics are used to legitimate power relations in society imo. They try and tell us that everyone is self-interested and individualistic so lets gut social spending and deregulate the state and put our notions of freedom and equality into the free-market. These ideas always start somewhere, then they are put into the service of power and naturalized throughout system.

Pretty interesting stuff though. This TA i know is pretty radical and applies social theory to statistical analysis so maybe he can put some more weight on fomenkos side, i'll ask. Thanks for the paper topic guys lolz.

[decypher]

biblioblography: Allegories Gone Wild - The Mathematical Madman

Here's a blog post i haven't entirely read yet but the guy goes into more depth and directly engages the concepts in the book.

[Grapes]

I'm just tired of wum and markpaul trying to use grand stories about conspiracies and false histories in order to make up for their failings as social entities on this site.

Oh wait MP, sorry, that's right, you're doing it as a public service for us blinkered sheep. If I ever find time to meet you in between doing everything I can to avoid ever meeting you, I'll be sure to thank you.

[ebbomega]

The second that either wummy or markpaul posts something peer-reviewed I'll eat my hat.

K, not really. but it might shift the cosmos of the universe.

[Grapes]

Dude how can they post anything peer reviewed??

THE PEERS ARE IN ON THE CONSPIRACY

[-evil-duerr-]

I like the idea that we can blame all the world's problems on super intelligent evil lizard creatures from planet x who can morph into middle aged politicians.

it's very comforting!

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Grapes

I'm just tired of wum and markpaul trying to use grand stories about conspiracies and false histories in order to make up for their failings as social entities on this site.

Oh wait MP, sorry, that's right, you're doing it as a public service for us blinkered sheep. If I ever find time to meet you in between doing everything I can to avoid ever meeting you, I'll be sure to thank you.

Failing as a social entity on this site?

Sure, okay I'll go with that. I'll continue to voice what I believe in/ask the tough questions that matter to me, it's more important then any praise I could get from any blinkered sheep.

Don't bother thanking me, just don't be an asshole.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

I like the idea that we can blame all the world's problems on super intelligent evil lizard creatures from planet x who can morph into middle aged politicians.

it's very comforting!

It is.


For the record, I don't know enough about this new chronology to back it up, and I never propounded it to be more truthful then orthodox history. It's funny what some people will believe once they ascribe a label to you though.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Grapes

If I ever find time to meet you in between doing everything I can to avoid ever meeting you, I'll be sure to thank you.

PS

That part hurt my feelings. :sad2:

[azazel]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Very well, argue your point. And I will follow with my beliefs.

But you can't just post youtube videos.


PS- I don't think you should say that I need to open my mind after posting a comment like this

Tell a quixtar true believer that he's a fucken idiot and he's being scammed along with all of his other disciples and that only the guys at the top make money.

I have an open mind. you do not.

[azazel]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

I think people who beleive in these types of stories seriously underestimate human failibility. Even in modern times with advanced technology which would appear entirely alien to anyone who existed a thousand years ago we arent able to concot such grand schemes.

There is just such a huge body of evidence that counters these type's of theories its not even worth investigating them. Of course, as with holocaust denial there are those that will advance such implossible theories inorder to further their own adgenda. Its always seems to discredited zealots who have expertise in other areas of academics that push these views. Don't you think if this conspiracy were true all those millions of atheist anthropolgists who dedicate their life to study would've uncovered such a grand scheme, i dunno, 150 years ago?

how many people live under a fiat money system and haven't figured out that that's a total scam?

[-evil-duerr-]

markpaul and azazel are star seeds from the future who've been sent to earth to battle the lizards from dimension x.
good luck guys, all mankind depends on your paranoia.

[azazel]

I think one of the primary reasons why we've been lied about history is because it doesn't support the idea of traditional evolution, also conveniently ignoring the mythos about angels (nephilim) and heroes coming down to spawn civilization.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by azazel

I have a malleable mind. you do not.

fixed.

[azazel]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I'm a yupee who sips starbucks and assigns psychological labels to those who talk about things I don't understand. The world disappears when I close my eyes and plug my ears. LALALALALA.

fixed.

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by azazel

I think one of the primary reasons why we've been lied about history is because it doesn't support the idea of traditional evolution, also conveniently ignoring the mythos about angels (nephilim) and heroes coming down to spawn civilization.

also because they are stealing your potato chips. think about it, you open the bag it's only 1/4 full???

They're not gonna pull a fast one on me, where the fuck did 3/4 of my ripples go?

Someone's got their hand in the world's bag of of old dutch, if you catch my drift.

[Krusha]

Originally Posted by Grapes

Oh wait MP, sorry, that's right, you're doing it as a public service for us blinkered sheep. If I ever find time to meet you in between doing everything I can to avoid ever meeting you, I'll be sure to thank you.

Dude, "everything you can to avoid meeting him" ...is it really worth that much effort?

You just pwnd yourself. It's like your dedicating every moment possible to not letting him get to you, and that, my squishy fruit is the same thing.

If he bothers you, just ignore him, trust me it's a lot easier to do on a computer.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Krusha

Dude, "everything you can to avoid meeting him" ...is it really worth that much effort?

You just pwnd yourself. It's like your dedicating every moment possible to not letting him get to you, and that, my squishy fruit is the same thing.

If he bothers you, just ignore him, trust me it's a lot easier to do on a computer.

Uh I believe it was a joke made in relation to this thread specifically.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

Is ancient history a lie? Probably. The records of mankind only go back so far (16,000 BC) and they are a blur at best. How am I supposed to believe ancient history if the news I get today is full of lies?
eg. Great Seal secrets revealed! - Yahoo! News

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

markpaul and azazel are star seeds from the future who've been sent to earth to battle the lizards from dimension x.
good luck guys, all mankind depends on your paranoia.

What can I say, Im a sucker, your churlish bullshit makes me feel like rantin...I don't care if you're trolling me, you're talking about paranoia so I challenge any one of you to poke a hole in the following statement:


The problem with paranoia in this society lays in the bulk of people who squirm in their cynicism when facing revisionism in history/science/religion.

Being a deterministic culture continues to endanger humanity as it nurtures the lack of compassion and cynicism needed to constantly create a culture of war. Until humanity decides to grow up and leave cynicism to satire (which should have it's time and place), we will always be a culture of war, and seeing how we are treating this earth, it has a definite half-life.


The paranoia of a conspiracy theorist however, at worst is a silly waste of time (though still good for a laugh), though if there's merrit in the work, it is a couragous step to take for the individual who seeks truth in whatever school of thought they mean to revise. History as we know it, has been revised constantly from such revolutionary minds, and orthodox history is merely an account of accepted revisionism!

Sometimes it takes ~200 years for the rest of the Earth to believe it's on a sphere. Yet the world is still proverbially flat in many respects, because emotionally we have not grown up as a society.

So the big question is...why is revising history such a daunting task to so many people (not to be confused with the excuse that it's a waste of time)?

The problem isn't paranoia, the problem is paranoid or not, people are inherently deterministic, it is linked to personal pride and confidence and is very much an emotional survivalist tactic for the individual. For the truly paranoid individual, it gives them something to grasp onto because their ego is too weak to do so itself.



Our society nurtures determinism, but it is defiant on revisionism. This will not last, one way or another.

The greatest minds in history are constantly regailed for their discoveries which are almost always revisions of past beliefs, there's always a struggle for the society at large to accept new ideas. The same is true still today.

Those who don't create the future they want today, will have to endure the future they get tommorow.

[-evil-duerr-]

"churlish" !!!