support china's homeland, tibet is, and always will be part of china!!!

[Senior]

I got invited to this on facebook and since we can't discuss it there (unless you join the group) thought I'd repost it here. in my eyes it's basically a weak straw man argument based around some anecdotes collected from being there and observing some things. I love the bit at the end of this rant where he says that people lived in fear of the Tibetan monks... if they kept 400 sex slaves, which in a ll my readings I've never heard of, than where are the survivors? have any of them come forward? then he blames the Tibetans for all the problems in Tibet and credits the Chinese for everything good. like it's the Tibetans faults that they live in poverty. this is like blaming the blacks for their living conditions during apartheid in South Africa.





"to all of you people who fly your "free tibet" flags and wear the t-shirts, how many of you have actually been there? i have been to rural tibet many times where it is untouched by chinese influence, and all i saw was sickness. there is nothing up there, tibet is far better off in the hands of the chinese. they are cared for, given medical treatment (they have a service that drives to rural villiages and feeds the local population, sometimes the first meal they have had in days) you can't grow fruits and vegetables there. tibetens are free to move about the country as they wish. lhasa, heavily modified by chinese influence, is a beutiful city, tibeten architecture is unspoilt. leave china alone, most of you people dont even know what you're protesting for. do your research before signing up to these free tibet groups. dont be a sheep and follow the crowd.
if you live in north america, remember that the entire continent was invaded (rather than annexed) by european forces. you a-holes did the exact same thing. the chinese annexed tibet for the interests of the motherland, as well as the tibeten people, who were at the time living in constant fear of the monks, and their 400+ women who they kept locked up in small rooms, released only to fullfill the sexual desires of the tibeten dictatorship. please, research before you protest."

[Senior]

the only thing I actually agree with is his final statement "please, research before you protest." he would be wise to take his own advice.

[esoter1c]

Bare poop.

[Senior]

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[galaxie]

some kid that lives on my bf's floor invited him to that group
like, wtf do the Chinese care? you're not Tibetan, leave them alone. I know there's more to it than that but I honestly don't see the big fucking deal!

[djmarkpaul]

Chinese nationalism is a very scary precedent. There's easily just as many that are willing to kill with a clear conscious to serve mother China as there are those protesting against against the human rights violations.

In fact, even though conscription is a part of their constitution, there's so much nationalistic fervor that it isn't really needing to be enforced.

Conscription is enshrined in Article 55 of their Constitution, which states:

"It is a sacred duty of every citizen of the People's Republic of China to defend his or her motherland and resist invasion. It is an honoured obligation of the citizens of the People's Republic of China to perform military service and to join the militia forces."


It's amazing how anyone there can be so fanatically nationalistic when there's such a large documented amount of political dissidents that are routinely harvested for their organs.

Many people there actually like to be cogs to a machine that promotes illegal activities and abuse of basic human rights to the individual because of rampant nationalistic ideology.

[Senior]

agreed, it's very scary indeed.

[lildonkey]

China is the next superpower, so we should all pretty much learn how to play DDR or we're pretty much getting killed.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Senior

I got invited to this on facebook and since we can't discuss it there (unless you join the group) thought I'd repost it here. in my eyes it's basically a weak straw man argument based around some anecdotes collected from being there and observing some things. I love the bit at the end of this rant where he says that people lived in fear of the Tibetan monks... if they kept 400 sex slaves, which in a ll my readings I've never heard of, than where are the survivors? have any of them come forward? then he blames the Tibetans for all the problems in Tibet and credits the Chinese for everything good. like it's the Tibetans faults that they live in poverty. this is like blaming the blacks for their living conditions during apartheid in South Africa.





"to all of you people who fly your "free tibet" flags and wear the t-shirts, how many of you have actually been there? i have been to rural tibet many times where it is untouched by chinese influence, and all i saw was sickness. there is nothing up there, tibet is far better off in the hands of the chinese. they are cared for, given medical treatment (they have a service that drives to rural villiages and feeds the local population, sometimes the first meal they have had in days) you can't grow fruits and vegetables there. tibetens are free to move about the country as they wish. lhasa, heavily modified by chinese influence, is a beutiful city, tibeten architecture is unspoilt. leave china alone, most of you people dont even know what you're protesting for. do your research before signing up to these free tibet groups. dont be a sheep and follow the crowd.
if you live in north america, remember that the entire continent was invaded (rather than annexed) by european forces. you a-holes did the exact same thing. the chinese annexed tibet for the interests of the motherland, as well as the tibeten people, who were at the time living in constant fear of the monks, and their 400+ women who they kept locked up in small rooms, released only to fullfill the sexual desires of the tibeten dictatorship. please, research before you protest."

i wouldnt be surprised if that group was created by an agent of the chinese government.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i wouldnt be surprised if that group was created by an agent of the chinese government.

no, I know the guy who made it and he's from White Rock.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Senior

"to all of you people who fly your "free tibet" flags and wear the t-shirts, how many of you have actually been there? i have been to rural tibet many times where it is untouched by chinese influence, and all i saw was sickness. there is nothing up there, tibet is far better off in the hands of the chinese. they are cared for, given medical treatment (they have a service that drives to rural villiages and feeds the local population, sometimes the first meal they have had in days) you can't grow fruits and vegetables there. tibetens are free to move about the country as they wish. lhasa, heavily modified by chinese influence, is a beutiful city, tibeten architecture is unspoilt. leave china alone, most of you people dont even know what you're protesting for. do your research before signing up to these free tibet groups. dont be a sheep and follow the crowd.
if you live in north america, remember that the entire continent was invaded (rather than annexed) by european forces. you a-holes did the exact same thing. the chinese annexed tibet for the interests of the motherland, as well as the tibeten people, who were at the time living in constant fear of the monks, and their 400+ women who they kept locked up in small rooms, released only to fullfill the sexual desires of the tibeten dictatorship. please, research before you protest."

LOL....

oh my god, this is pure internet gold.

[Lush]

It's a little bit more complicated than that. Tibet's government was almost feudalistic prior to China's invasion and yes, in that regard there have been improvements. But the way that China overtook Tibet was brutal, destroying the monasteries and virtually attempting to destroy aspects of Tibetan buddhism which more or less define Tibetan culture was and is completely unnecessary.

For instance, the Chinese kidnapped the Tibetan panchen lama and replaced him with their own which completely goes against the concept as the Tibetans specifically chose the lama whom they believed was reincarnated into the position. Not to mention he was a little child, and the kidnapping and massacre surrounding Tibetan nuns... Tibet is an incredibly peaceful nation and China's takeover was a devastating one. There's a difference in taking over a nation and attempting to instill a just system and taking over a nation, trying to integrate every aspect of it and destroy its culture in the process.

[stephen_c]

Originally Posted by Lush

~cut~ Tibet is an incredibly peaceful nation and China's takeover was a devastating one. There's a difference in taking over a nation and attempting to instill a just system and taking over a nation, trying to integrate every aspect of it and destroy its culture in the process.

sounds very familiar,
can't recall which country/people did the same.
im sure it'll come to me when i look in the mirror.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Lush

It's a little bit more complicated than that. Tibet's government was almost feudalistic prior to China's invasion and yes, in that regard there have been improvements. But the way that China overtook Tibet was brutal, destroying the monasteries and virtually attempting to destroy aspects of Tibetan buddhism which more or less define Tibetan culture was and is completely unnecessary.

For instance, the Chinese kidnapped the Tibetan panchen lama and replaced him with their own which completely goes against the concept as the Tibetans specifically chose the lama whom they believed was reincarnated into the position. Not to mention he was a little child, and the kidnapping and massacre surrounding Tibetan nuns... Tibet is an incredibly peaceful nation and China's takeover was a devastating one. There's a difference in taking over a nation and attempting to instill a just system and taking over a nation, trying to integrate every aspect of it and destroy its culture in the process.

YO, YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT CHINA HAS HAD A VERY LONG AND COMPLEX HISTORY SPANNING SINCE BEFORE CHRIST. THERE WERE MANY PERIODS IN ITS HISTORY WHERE TIBET WAS A PART OF CHINA, AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF ITS SPHERE OF INFLUENCE.

SHIT, UP UNTIL 1949 CHINA WAS NEVER A TOTALLY UNIFIED COUNTRY, BUT SERIES OF REGIONS CONTROLLED BY WARLORDS WHO WERE OCCASIONALLY CONQUERED AND UNIFIED, LIKE THAT NIKKAH EMPEROUR QU DID IN THE WARRING STATES PERIOD, SON. THE INVASION OF TIBET IN THE 50'S IS AN EXTENSION OF THAT UNIFICATION.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, THEY STILL SOME WACK ASS MOTHA FUCKA'S, BUT THAT HAS MORE TO DO WITH THE COMMUNIST PARTY THEN ANYHTING ELSE. O

[Drazkers]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i wouldnt be surprised if that group was created by an agent of the chinese government.

I thought that as well as it really sounds like some chinese propaganda.

came across this, wonder if its true, the source is pretty biased but it says the british GCHQ has the proof.

Chinese soldiers posing as Tibetan monks - China orchestrated the riots in March 2008!

[stephen_c]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

YO, YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT CHINA HAS HAD A VERY LONG AND COMPLEX HISTORY SPANNING SINCE BEFORE CHRIST. THERE WERE MANY PERIODS IN ITS HISTORY WHERE TIBET WAS A PART OF CHINA, AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF ITS SPHERE OF INFLUENCE.

SHIT, UP UNTIL 1949 CHINA WAS NEVER A TOTALLY UNIFIED COUNTRY, BUT SERIES OF REGIONS CONTROLLED BY WARLORDS WHO WERE OCCASIONALLY CONQUERED AND UNIFIED, LIKE THAT NIKKAH EMPEROUR QU DID IN THE WARRING STATES PERIOD, SON. THE INVASION OF TIBET IN THE 50'S IS AN EXTENSION OF THAT UNIFICATION.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, THEY STILL SOME WACK ASS MOTHA FUCKA'S, BUT THAT HAS MORE TO DO WITH THE COMMUNIST PARTY THEN ANYHTING ELSE. O

that is contrary to popular believe.
tibet was a part of china?

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by stephen_c

that is contrary to popular believe.
tibet was a part of china?

Did you even read what he said? There wasn't really a "China" per se prior to the 50s.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by stephen_c

sounds very familiar,
can't recall which country/people did the same.
im sure it'll come to me when i look in the mirror.

Valid point, though I don't think it really makes it any more right.

[stephen_c]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Did you even read what he said? There wasn't really a "China" per se prior to the 50s.

yes i did read what he said.
2nd sentence, 1st paragraph
"~cut~ THERE WERE MANY PERIODS IN ITS HISTORY WHERE TIBET WAS A PART OF CHINA, ~cut~"
im askin is he sure about that?
where is he gettin the info from?

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Valid point, though I don't think it really makes it any more right.

agreed. 2 wrongs don't make a right,

im merely pointin to myself when i said "in the mirror".
as a canadian i did the same past and present to the natives
and im directly benefiting from it.

im lil uncomfortable w/ my hypocrisy that's all.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by Senior

no, I know the guy who made it and he's from White Rock.

It all makes sense now...

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by stephen_c

yes i did read what he said.
2nd sentence, 1st paragraph
"~cut~ THERE WERE MANY PERIODS IN ITS HISTORY WHERE TIBET WAS A PART OF CHINA, ~cut~"
im askin is he sure about that?
where is he gettin the info from?

I think you're missing the point though. "China" in its current form didn't exist for much longer than a decade prior to appropriating Tibet. Previous to that China's history resembled that of Germany... tons of small tribes that generally operated without any form of unity whatsoever. Naitonalism is really just a by-product of WWI (well, and finally became recognized on a unified global level after WWII). The concept that the peoples of a state could unify and weren't under the whims of the king or emperor du jour, well, that was fairly new to most of the world short of the United States. Even Canada didn't arguably have a national identity until 1917.

His statement is moreso that the history of the Tibet area and the history of the various emperors, dynasties and feudal systems that was collectively known as "China" was often intersected.

It all comes down to national identity, and plain and simple, the people of Tibet do not think themselves as Chinese. And regardless of how much "better" life may seem under the Chinese government, the west learned a while back that trying to suppress national self-determination leads to a political boiling pot which ultimately leads to persecution, war and genocide. The west's refusal to allow self-determination in the Balkans was what caused WWI (which ultimately caused WWII) and is exactly why the United Nations exists today (well, that and protection from Mutually Assured Destruction, though I'd argue that's more what keeps it all together than what formed it in the first place)

[laska]

I can see this happening in Xinjiang next