Super-rich hide trillions offshore

[wum]

Sunday March 27, 2005

· Study reveals assets 10 times larger than UK GDP
· Exchequers deprived of hundreds of billions in tax

The world's richest individuals have placed $11.5 trillion of assets in offshore havens, mainly as a tax avoidance measure. The shock new figure - 10 times Britain's GDP - is contained in the most authoritative study of the wealth held in offshore accounts ever conducted. The study, by Tax Justice Network, a group of accountants and economists concerned at the escalating wealth held in offshore locations, shows that the world's high-net-worth individuals earn $860 billion each year from their assets.

Whaddya know... there are people rich enough to buy the world.

[mapleleaf4ever]

That's where I'm putting all my Millions.

[stephen_c]

^
haha good plan!

[neoh]

problem with offshore banking is, if it gets moved (say from the caman islands) the americans seize all assets.

And Poof! gone. (after 911)

[wum]

funny they didn't mention Rothschild

[automatic]

it's a huge problem, especially with so many corporations ahveing their "head office" in the caymans, bahamas, etc....and avoiding paying corporate taxes in the countries in which their operations are actually based.

look at that, wum and i actually agree on something, and it's not even april 1 yet!

[decypher]

^^ I guess hell froze over

[mux]

Originally Posted by neoh

problem with offshore banking is, if it gets moved (say from the caman islands) the americans seize all assets.

And Poof! gone. (after 911)

I'm not sure what you mean here.

'Offshore' means out of our country. For an American to have an 'offshore' account, that means they have an account in another country - the Caymans or Costa Rica are good ones, but so are Sweden, Ireland and the Isle of Mann. Moving the money around doesn't hurt anything, unless you're a US citizen who's been lying to the IRS, and you move a lot of money into an account in a country that has a tax treaty with the states, or out of the states into that sort of country.

The only good place to have an offshore account is in a country that does not have a tax treaty with Canada, and it's easy to find out which ones do and don't, just google it. The general rule is, live in one country, keep your money in another, and spend your money in a third.

(when we lived in Costa Rica, we had a friend who was deeeep into the offshore game... we could have played, but instead brought all our earnings back to Canada and promptly gave half of them to the government. It makes more sense to pay taxes when you see what happens to a country like CR where most people *don't* pay... I'm fond of sidewalks, parks, and low crime rates.)

[MissBehavior]

Originally Posted by decypher

^^ I guess hell froze over

It DOES feel a bit chilly today.

[ty_guy]

hello, i'd like the Big Mac deal with a large coke.
sure thing, that comes to $5.67.
ah crap, ~leans to guy in next lane~ "hey, would you like to lend me 67 cents?"
no

now where the hell are these rich people when you really really need them!

[impure]

omg, i'm shocked.
people ACTUALLY hide money from the government?
wow.
just wow.

(for all you who don't have a sarcasim detector on your computer, this post would register as 100% BS)

[neoh]

Originally Posted by mux

I'm not sure what you mean here.

'Offshore' means out of our country. For an American to have an 'offshore' account, that means they have an account in another country - the Caymans or Costa Rica are good ones, but so are Sweden, Ireland and the Isle of Mann. Moving the money around doesn't hurt anything, unless you're a US citizen who's been lying to the IRS, and you move a lot of money into an account in a country that has a tax treaty with the states, or out of the states into that sort of country.

The only good place to have an offshore account is in a country that does not have a tax treaty with Canada, and it's easy to find out which ones do and don't, just google it. The general rule is, live in one country, keep your money in another, and spend your money in a third.

(when we lived in Costa Rica, we had a friend who was deeeep into the offshore game... we could have played, but instead brought all our earnings back to Canada and promptly gave half of them to the government. It makes more sense to pay taxes when you see what happens to a country like CR where most people *don't* pay... I'm fond of sidewalks, parks, and low crime rates.)

The US watch all these accounts in the "Off-Shore" You dont see people setting up bank acounts in India to store millions of dollars now do you?

Well the Americans "control" what have you the off-shore banking, and if it gets moved say, from the Camen Islands to Canada - it gets Red Flagged in America and seized. There's a reason for this, but I can't remember the proper reasoning behind it.

But believe me on this one. It is almost impossible to move money anymore. God bless America.

[neoh]

Originally Posted by impure

omg, i'm shocked.
people ACTUALLY hide money from the government?
wow.
just wow.

(for all you who don't have a sarcasim detector on your computer, this post would register as 100% BS)

My bullshit detector shows a: 87.6666999% chance of bullshit.

[impure]

Originally Posted by neoh

The US watch all these accounts in the "Off-Shore" You dont see people setting up bank acounts in India to store millions of dollars now do you?

Well the Americans "control" what have you the off-shore banking, and if it gets moved say, from the Camen Islands to Canada - it gets Red Flagged in America and seized. There's a reason for this, but I can't remember the proper reasoning behind it.

But believe me on this one. It is almost impossible to move money anymore. God bless America.

i thought bank information was confidential.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by impure

i thought bank information was confidential.

hahahahahahaha.....

[mux]

Originally Posted by neoh

The US watch all these accounts in the "Off-Shore" You dont see people setting up bank acounts in India to store millions of dollars now do you?

Well the Americans "control" what have you the off-shore banking, and if it gets moved say, from the Camen Islands to Canada - it gets Red Flagged in America and seized. There's a reason for this, but I can't remember the proper reasoning behind it.

But believe me on this one. It is almost impossible to move money anymore. God bless America.

Actually, man, if there's no tax treaty, the US government has no basic right to look into another country's banks' records. As I said before, 'off-shore' is a blanket term for any account not in your home country. If I were to open a bank account in Seattle, that would be considered "off-shore". You're right to a point, transactions do get watched, but for the red flags to go up, the cash must be:

a.) moving to or from a US bank or a bank with financial treaties with the US
b.) a sum in excess of $100k USD (not difficult given the people involved)
c.) from a 'suspicious' source (ie, 'some guys in Iran')

Like, seriously, how do you think the super-rich (read: Bush and his family and friends) would take it if they were transferring $8.5M from a numbered account in Stockholme to a numbered account in the Isle of Man, and the "US Government", who have no financial or governmental authority in either country, decided to somehow waltz in and "seize" all that money? We're talking about extremely rich people here, and you don't get to be that extremely wealthy without having some friends in very high places.

That's just silly. Yes, there are a lot more restrictions now - to open up an account in the Isle of Man, you need lots of ID to prove you are who you say you are, and you have to prove that the money coming into your account is from a legitimate source. It used to be that all you needed was some basic ID, now you need to prove identity, prove nationality, prove residency, etc, etc.

And yes, the US does have a tax treaty with Canada. That means that if a US citizen has a bank account in Canada, and the IRS asks Revenue Canada (or whatever they call themselves now) for details, Revenue Canada will give that info up willingly - and vice versa. The US has tax treaties with a lot of places, as does Canada.

As for moving money from a bank on Grand Cayman to a bank in Canada - no, the US would not seize the funds, but the Canadian goverment might - according to my accountant, all accountants in Canada are now required by law to report all *large* incoming or outgoing money transfers to CSIS, our equivalent of the CIA.

...and you've misspelled 'Cayman' twice now.

[neoh]

Originally Posted by mux

Actually, man, if there's no tax treaty, the US government has no basic right to look into another country's banks' records. As I said before, 'off-shore' is a blanket term for any account not in your home country. If I were to open a bank account in Seattle, that would be considered "off-shore". You're right to a point, transactions do get watched, but for the red flags to go up, the cash must be:

a.) moving to or from a US bank or a bank with financial treaties with the US
b.) a sum in excess of $100k USD (not difficult given the people involved)
c.) from a 'suspicious' source (ie, 'some guys in Iran')

Actually, they watch *all* electronic transactions. It used to be 100,000, then it dropped to 10,000, 2,000, 200 and now it's down to $1, every penny in and out of a financial insitution is watched.

You can move the money into the account, but you cannot move it out without it being looked at. If you are a Canadian citizen, there ARE "treaties" with the US and Canada, US kind of helps Canada get it's tax money when these things are done.

Originally Posted by mux

Like, seriously, how do you think the super-rich (read: Bush and his family and friends) would take it if they were transferring $8.5M from a numbered account in Stockholme to a numbered account in the Isle of Man, and the "US Government", who have no financial or governmental authority in either country, decided to somehow waltz in and "seize" all that money? We're talking about extremely rich people here, and you don't get to be that extremely wealthy without having some friends in very high places.

That's just silly. Yes, there are a lot more restrictions now - to open up an account in the Isle of Man, you need lots of ID to prove you are who you say you are, and you have to prove that the money coming into your account is from a legitimate source. It used to be that all you needed was some basic ID, now you need to prove identity, prove nationality, prove residency, etc, etc.

And yes, the US does have a tax treaty with Canada. That means that if a US citizen has a bank account in Canada, and the IRS asks Revenue Canada (or whatever they call themselves now) for details, Revenue Canada will give that info up willingly - and vice versa. The US has tax treaties with a lot of places, as does Canada.

As for moving money from a bank on Grand Cayman to a bank in Canada - no, the US would not seize the funds, but the Canadian goverment might - according to my accountant, all accountants in Canada are now required by law to report all *large* incoming or outgoing money transfers to CSIS, our equivalent of the CIA.

...and you've misspelled 'Cayman' twice now.

Don't trust google for your information. If you move money from a bank in the Grand CAYMAN Islands to canada then yes it Will be seized.

Try not to argue too much about it.

[wum]

Originally Posted by neoh

Actually, they watch *all* electronic transactions. It used to be 100,000, then it dropped to 10,000, 2,000, 200 and now it's down to $1, every penny in and out of a financial insitution is watched.

You can move the money into the account, but you cannot move it out without it being looked at. If you are a Canadian citizen, there ARE "treaties" with the US and Canada, US kind of helps Canada get it's tax money when these things are done.

that's fucked up mang. is that part of the Patriot Act?

[mux]

Originally Posted by neoh

Don't trust google for your information. If you move money from a bank in the Grand CAYMAN Islands to canada then yes it Will be seized.

I don't, I trust my certified accountant, international finance friends and my investment banker.

Also, Grand Cayman is one of the Cayman Islands.

Try not to argue too much about it.

I won't; it's pointless, you're convinced you're right. Why bother trying to convince you otherwise? You've obviously got a lot of personal experience with international banking.

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by wum

that's fucked up mang. is that part of the Patriot Act?

that or the patriot act 2...
NOT ONLY do they monitor our BANK transactions...
but ALSO... all these things :
-library check outs
-all purchases made without cash
-phone conversations
-text messages

they can track where you are at every moment by where and what you spend money on. they pretty much know everything about everyone regaurdless.

[wum]

Originally Posted by Ashes

that or the patriot act 2...
NOT ONLY do they monitor our BANK transactions...
but ALSO... all these things :
-library check outs
-all purchases made without cash
-phone conversations
-text messages

they can track where you are at every moment by where and what you spend money on. they pretty much know everything about everyone regaurdless.

it gets worse. Listen to this:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/magi_12_04_02.mp3

[diva]

Wow, yet another dazzling ray of intelligent insight from impure.
Kudos.

[FlorpIncarnate]

You really only have to read the text of the patriot acts or look at the current tax system to realise that the US is now no longer a country that stands for the fundamental principles that the founders had intended for it to stand for.

The republicans continue to focus their platform on eroding the social liberties that the United States was founded on.

The democrats continue to focus their platform on eroding the economic liberties that the United States was founded on.

I expect that our descendants will regard the United States alongside Athens and Rome as pioneering attempts at "Man over the State" style governments. Although all of these states eventually failed to sustain their noble visions, each one managed to show humanity a glimpse of the greatness that we are capable of achieving.

Have a glance at the original American philosophy of property rights while keeping in mind the America that we see today, in the context of this thread.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/Am...tick/pr10.html

[Grapes]

that's fucked up mang. is that part of the Patriot Act?

Or maybe it was part of "Patriot Games"?

Wasn't Harrison Ford involved in some way?

that or the patriot act 2...

A sequel eh?.. Sequels are never as good as the originals though

[wum]

Originally Posted by FlorpIncarnate

You really only have to read the text of the patriot acts or look at the current tax system to realise that the US is now no longer a country that stands for the fundamental principles that the founders had intended for it to stand for.

The republicans continue to focus their platform on eroding the social liberties that the United States was founded on.

The democrats continue to focus their platform on eroding the economic liberties that the United States was founded on.

I expect that our descendants will regard the United States alongside Athens and Rome as pioneering attempts at "Man over the State" style governments. Although all of these states eventually failed to sustain their noble visions, each one managed to show humanity a glimpse of the greatness that we are capable of achieving.

Have a glance at the original American philosophy of property rights while keeping in mind the America that we see today, in the context of this thread.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/Am...tick/pr10.html

Graduated taxes (especially in the form of income tax), wealth redistribution, and seizure of public property are all central planks in INTERNATIONAL COMMUNISM.