general strike tomorrow?

[Cdn_Brdr]

EIGHT!?!?!?!

No wonder you're so damn ornery!

[automatic]

Originally Posted by fable

(its condesending to think that you are one of the few who "know")

doctor....HEAL THYSELF!!!!!!

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by diva

ok, then:
i think myra is being pretty reasonable in commenting that the the rest of the unions, not the teachers will not gain public support for the teachers they're trying to support by holding them hostage.

maybe not.... but are they going for public support or public awareness?

When people are inconvenienced they notice! Who do you think deals with most of the repercussions of the public's anger? I'd say the govt.... and who do the teachers want to take notice?

I'm not even throwing my support behind either side of the matter... I'm just looking at it for what it is.

Either way, I know what it's like to argue with you Esi so I'll end it here. You'll always have the last say or some point you have to bring up. Rather than me regurgitate a bunch of stuff I've already said I'll let you spout out your next comment and leave it at that. :)

[diva]

Either way, I know what it's like to argue with you Esi so I'll end it here. You'll always have the last say or some point you have to bring up. Rather than me regurgitate a bunch of stuff I've already said I'll let you spout out your next comment and leave it at that.

gee, thanks for letting me know that it's ok for me to include my opinion in this thread.

[loving the reciprocal passive-aggression, btw.]

:)

[Ree Fresh]

Whats really funny is ppl bitching at the teachers if theres a possible transit strike. Like CND_ BRD said... its the Unions choice to support the teachers.

Also to make clear is that the its TELUS who is picketing Translink NOT the teachers.

Although somone did anounce (I foget who) a garentee that the bus's will be running tomorro, however telus can still sudenly show up and picket the bus's if they want to, but not the sky train.

So cheer up myra... you also have the day off tomorro so whats your worrie!?!

[t-skywalker]

^^i said they would be on monday for tuesday but its now thursday and this one is for firday....

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by wellbelove's

So cheer up myra... you also have the day off tomorro so whats your worrie!?!

I have the day off but coworkers of mine who live (and bus) from maple ridge who are single parents with mortgage to pay off who really can't afford to cab to work don't. I know it's really out of my usually extremely selfish character to worry about other people, but occasionally I do. Thankfully they don't have to be stuck with no way to get to Vancouver.

[Silverwinged]

Originally Posted by wellbelove's

Also to make clear is that the its TELUS who is picketing Translink NOT the teachers.

further clarification, as my dad is a member of CUPE, it is the CUPE workers that will be striking and picketing... yes the telus workers are picketing translink as well; but without CUPE more services than the busses and trains will be shut down. (day cares, parts of city hall, community centers and so on)

if there is a bus strike, i'll be angry with the government.
anyone who says that they will stop supporting the teachers if the strike goes through, i have no respect for.
it is the government who is trying to get rid of unions so big business can florish. its wrong. there is no rebuttle for something like that.

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I have the day off but coworkers of mine who live (and bus) from maple ridge who are single parents with mortgage to pay off who really can't afford to cab to work don't. I know it's really out of my usually extremely selfish character to worry about other people, but occasionally I do. Thankfully they don't have to be stuck with no way to get to Vancouver.

What I have a hard time trying to figure out is there seems to be no sympathy for the Telus workers who are ahve gone through nearly 4 months of being on strike, the cupe members such as my self who are locked out, and the teachers who havnt recived any income since September... who are also single parents and also have mortgag's to pay by the end of this month.

However it seems that your asking for sympathy when it comes to your co-workers for 1 day!?!

When infact 1000's and 1000's of ppl accross the province are willing to strike and miss a day of work to make a stand agaist the governemnt.

Honestly... how soon do you think what happend to Telus may happen to Bell? Although your not a union... they give you guys good pay and benifets to avoid the idea. However there may come a time when Bell holds a huge lay off session and replaces you with workers from other countrys. Are you ok with other ppl not suporting or caring about your unfair job loss? What will you and your co-workers do?

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Actually, I had an excellent point. Just because I do not agree with you, or with unions does NOT mean I am ignorant or cannot see in front of my face. Stop playing that card because it is EXTREMELY weak. It's a free society, I'm allowed to disagree with your opinion and not be ridiciculed by it with paragraph after paragraph of irrelevant information and attacks made to my character or intelligence. Don't try to bully me into seeing the way you see things, I see the facts LOUD AND CLEAR, and I still DON'T AGREE.

Myra..saying you don't agree with unions is pretty ridiculous..my mom has been on strike with telus for 3 months and for VERY good reason and if you want to tell me that they should just give up and not stand up for there rights and beliefs is bullshit.

[Two_Six]

I was just reading The Vancouver Sun newspaper and it stated that the buses and skytrain will NOT be participating in the general strike, but garbage collection will be dissrupted as of Friday if the government doesn't come up with a fair solution to the Teacher's strike.

[diva]

i have mad love for teachers. one of my favourite ppl is a teacher. they should definitely be paid more money than cranky bus drivers. i don't think they're being greedy at all. however, i think the teacher's union (which is a totally different body) is messed up and needs to be restructured. i think the college of teachers in this province needs to step up here.

both sides of this argument have made valid points, but i don't understand those who blindly support unions. they're not all good. they're not all without fault. and sometimes, they're the ones that bully the government because they have a right to do stuff like strike when their demands aren't met. i said sometimes. some ppl need to read up about both sides of the argument (not talking about this one, but unions vs. governement in general), and stop trying to put people down, or shut them up, for putting forth valid arguments.

[Courtney]

and MYRA...since you work for a phone company...
we'll see how good you feel when your company starts laying you all off so they can replace you with people who are younger,or from other countries who will work for much less money.
If that ever happened and your coworkers and you decided to say..go on strike...and bell hired old managers or employees back and paid them $75 dollars to do your job for 4 months while you stood outside in the cold with no money except the 11 dollar strike pay, how great would that be..would you stand up for yourself or would you let the company do what they wanted???

[Silverwinged]

Originally Posted by Courtney

Myra..saying you don't agree with unions is pretty ridiculous..my mom has been on strike with telus for 3 months and for VERY good reason and if you want to tell me that they should just give up and not stand up for there rights and beliefs is bullshit.

Amen.

It is really hard for me to think that I'm still a teenager...
But I can see where the government is wanting to take this. They CLEARLY do not want unions to exist... For profit margins to increase, big business must florish. Then we shall see for all the people who do not support the teachers, how much they bitch and moan when it becomes legal for big businesses and corporations to pay their top employees nothing more than $12 an hour. We'll see how people react when there is no such thing as a benifit plan or a retirement package.

The superficial nature of the people supporting the government who cannot see past their own needs, and whom are wrapped too tightly in their security blanket (that is only brought by the monetary value of screwing others) need point blank to remove their heads from their asses.

[Two_Six]

I totally support the Teacher's strike, our government isn't treating them fairly. In fact the government is showing no respect to the teachers fair demands. We all know the teacher's are not making the income the should beand that's bullshit.

[diva]

What I have a hard time trying to figure out is there seems to be no sympathy for the Telus workers who are ahve gone through nearly 4 months of being on strike, the cupe members such as my self who are locked out, and the teachers who havnt recived any income since September... who are also single parents and also have mortgag's to pay by the end of this month.

However it seems that your asking for sympathy when it comes to your co-workers for 1 day!?!

When infact 1000's and 1000's of ppl accross the province are willing to strike and miss a day of work to make a stand agaist the governemnt.

Honestly... how soon do you think what happend to Telus may happen to Bell? Although your not a union... they give you guys good pay and benifets to avoid the idea. However there may come a time when Bell holds a huge lay off session and replaces you with workers from other countrys. Are you ok with other ppl not suporting or caring about your unfair job loss? What will you and your co-workers do?

i have you on my blocked list because reading half the shit you post on here makes my eyes bleed, but i couldn't resist taking a peak at what you had to say about this.

no sympathy for telus workers? do you even know what that strike is about?
and of course ppl feel bad for the hard working teachers and EAs who are getting fucked over by this strike, but that doesn't mean they need need to roll over and say, "oh well, i'd better suck this up because it's for the greater good."

you're really fucking naive.

[Two_Six]

I support the Teachers, but them striking like this is against the law, so they are commiting a crime. A wrong doesn't make a right. But on the other hand if they don't strike then they will be fucked over by the government and continue to be underpaid. Our government seems like a big bully right now. What a fucked up government we live in.

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by diva

i have you on my blocked list because reading half the shit you post on here makes my eyes bleed, but i couldn't resist taking a peak at what you had to say about this.

no sympathy for telus workers? do you even know what that strike is about?
and of course ppl feel bad for the hard working teachers and EAs who are getting fucked over by this strike, but that doesn't mean they need need to roll over and say, "oh well, i'd better suck this up because it's for the greater good."

you're really fucking naive.

diva..do YOU Know what the telus strike is about...
enlighten me please

[Cdn_Brdr]

It really is a shame that so many people fail to see the bigger picture because they can't see past their own noses.....

[Esoteric]

It is really hard for me to think that I'm still a teenager...

It's not hard for me to think you're a teenager. In fact, it's painfully obvious to me.

They CLEARLY do not want unions to exist...

Considering the fact that the government has NO SAY in whether or not a union exists, your assertion is long on rhetoric and short on facts. Just because they're not willing to agree to the union's demands doesn't give any kind of indication that they don't want the union to exist.

For profit margins to increase, big business must florish.

Your statement might ALMOST make some sense if we weren't talking about THE GOVERNMENT. Governments don't have "profits" since they do not issue any publically traded shares. And to what big business are you referring? What is the big business involved in this teacher's strike? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

how much they bitch and moan when it becomes legal for big businesses and corporations to pay their top employees nothing more than $12 an hour

It is perfectly legal, right at the moment I type this, for a corporation to pay their top employees $12 an hour. Please get a clue.

Having said that, the so-called "top employee" would probably quit if he was being paid that little. What he wouldn't do is kidnap the CEO's 10 year old daughter and demand more money.

The superficial nature of the people supporting the government who cannot see past their own needs

ROFL

What about the superficial nature of the BCTF who cannot see past THEIR needs? They're certainly not taking the children's needs into consideration are they!

and whom are wrapped too tightly in their security blanket

Kindof like the BCTF who is wrapped in the security blanket of being a government sanctioned service monopoly? If there was another union or group of teachers who were NOT under the control of the BCTF and were NOT on strike, I guarantee you that the BCTF would not be striking either. But since they are the ONLY people allowed by law to teach your children, they have the power to demand whatever they want and withdraw service if they don't get it.

THAT is the definition of a greedy corporation (because a union is just like a corporation).

[fable]

Originally Posted by diva

oh, fuck off with the Che quotes.

you demean yourself with such a comment.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I'm kind of thinking that you might be lacking one if you're thinking it's a good idea to start with me.

please do not threaten me again.


shakeel

[Silverwinged]

All other elements of your muddled response and personal attacks left aside, YOU are making yourself look like a shallow minded fool with comments like this.

Originally Posted by Esoteric

ROFL

What about the superficial nature of the BCTF who cannot see past THEIR needs? They're certainly not taking the children's needs into consideration are they!

The reason WHY the teachers are on strike. Children are NOT getting the education they deserve.
Ever growing class sizes, cut funding, cut staffing. Explain to me how these things are taking the needs of the children into consideration at all?
I fail to see how it is superficial to ask for more assistance for students with special needs, or how it is superficial to ask for a set ratio of students to teaching staff.
You OBVIOUSLY went to school when class sizes were small enough that the majority of the class could still learn even if one, two kids tops were rowdy.
My younger sister has multiple classes where the student count is over 34. How is someone supposed to learn? How is the teacher supposed to handle the class?

Do YOU have any idea what YOU are talking about?
Its painfully obvious that you DON'T.

Originally Posted by Esoteric

But since they are the ONLY people allowed by law to teach your children, they have the power to demand whatever they want and withdraw service if they don't get it.

Funny thing being, if you were actually paying attention to the situation. They are NOT demanding anything, they wanted to negotiate. The government refused, and is STILL refusing.
Their requests are hardly outrageous. The only thing that should have to be talked about is the wage increase.

Pull your head out of your ass before you reply next time, kay?

[fable]

I think this thread has come to a stalemate. I think the ever elequent myra, spoke the truth when she stated this is getting into a circular arguement.


You either believe that this strike is a small part of a larger movement and a larger struggle against an oppressive ruling class,

or you dont.

either way, its going to become about choosing sides pretty soon. On one will be groups of any ethnicity, religeon and class, and on the other side will be those in power, and those who allow them to have power. Its taken 27 years specifically for me to get to this point, others shorter, some longer, but whatever opinion you have, whatever facts you feel are relevent (esoteric,SEAN! etc) understand that at the moment, that is what is keeping the tide at bay, but sooner or later people will understand that these "facts" these "statistics" are as corrupt, misrepresentational and self serving as the people who provide them. And if we can be patient enough, and forgo, the spiteful ignorance of those who are afraid of having their tiny little bubbles of illusion that they have created through all these all years destroyed, then a moment will come, when the oppressors will be unveiled, and the bubbles go POP POP POP....................

Fuck your statistics, the research studies where tainted from the very beggining! And deep down i know you realize this. This isnt mob metality, this is mass exodus from being held down, beat up, and ignored

If ones leg is broken one does not continue to walk while trying to mend it, one sits the fuck down and then when better, get the fuck up and start bootfucking the uncle tom, "house ******z" who use their self propheced intellectulism (really its just an ability to blindly state statistics without even understand reasearch in itself)

and yes i did say "uncle toms" and "house ******s"

"GO GIT THE MASTAH HIS PAPAH, BEFO HE GIVE YA A SWITCHN"
arf arf


your illusions build walls between you + the rest of humanity.

action+peripheral thinking is your only way through

action+mobilization
shakeel

[Esoteric]

I absolutely -LOVE- kids like you Silverwinged. All young and full of piss and vinegar... so convinced that they know what they are talking about. It just makes it easier for me.

Have you done ANY research to come up with your opinions? Where do you come up with your ideas? Your dad in CUPE? Give me a break. DO your own research instead of getting your information from union rhetoric. Hvae you ever actually READ a single thing on education? Ever? If so, please tell me what it was so I can read it for myself.

The reason WHY the teachers are on strike. Children are NOT getting the education they deserve.

So let me get this straight: children are not getting the education they deserve so you take away their education altogether? BRILLIANT! Excellant way to prove your point!

Ever growing class sizes

Average class sizes in BC has grown by 0.6 students from the year 2000 until the year 2004. These are the most recent figures available. Your statement is incorrect.

cut funding

The ministry of education has not spent one cent less than they did in 1999. In fact, funding in absolute terms has gone up. Ignorant socialists like to measure education by way of measuring how much MONEY you spend rather than how WELL the children do. Highschool graduation is up. Aboriginal high school graduation is up. Literacy and numeracy among grades 4-7 (the grades they actually test) is up over 10% in the past 4 years. So if the government hasn't ACTUALLY cut funding... and educational outcomes are BETTER... what in the hell are you talking about?

cut staffing

Ok so if the ministry hires someone in 2000, they can never be let go ever until they choose to leave? What kind of crap is that? There is no right enshrined in the constitution that allows you to be employed by the government in perpetuity.

My younger sister has multiple classes where the student count is over 34

OMG your sister has a big class size! It must be like that everywhere! Give teachers a 15% raise that will solve the problem. When I was in high school over a decade ago, I had class sizes over 30 too. It never impacted my education. I learned just fine thankyouverymuch.

Do YOU have any idea what YOU are talking about?
Its painfully obvious that you DON'T.

And I suppose you do? Again, tell me where it is you are getting your information and I will look at it and review what you have said. Or do you not have any credible sources for your information?

Funny thing being, if you were actually paying attention to the situation. They are NOT demanding anything, they wanted to negotiate. The government refused, and is STILL refusing.

Are you seriously out of your mind? How do you negotiate when you're on strike? The government didn't lock them out of the schools. The teachers walked off the job. If they wanted to negotiate, they should have called up a mediator, gotten their bargaining unit together and NEGOTIATED.

Pull your head out of your ass before you reply next time, kay?

Yeah I'll be sure to do that little girl. Please.