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Nov 29, 05
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%200. It makes me absolutely sick people bitching and complaining, demanding hand outs, etc. Hand outs perpetuate the cycle. Survival of the fittest my friend. Indigenous peoples? Maybe if we stopped giving them EVERYTHING, they would stop needing so much. Drug addicts? Their fault. They shouldn't have gotten into drugs. They can quit on their own. My dad was heavily addicted to cocaine, lost his job, went 100k into debt... 10 years later, he now runs his own bussiness making 200k+ a year in profits. To answer your question pal, why am I so upset? I'm not. I'm happier today than I have ever been in my life. I have a shitload of GOOD friends all over the world. I have family I love all over the world. I'm 20 years old and make more money than most that have a degree. I work out every day, and prepare great meals every night. I wouldn't change anything in my life. The reason I may sound upset, is because I hate people like you, that think society should support those who are too weak and incompetent to support themselves. Born with a mental or physical disability? Cool, not your fault, you should be helped. There are a few other scenario's that are deserving of help, but not many. 
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Nov 29, 05
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its like very single thread turns into a i hate fable one:(, fable, st0000000p...really, just stop, its not worth it, im sick of you fighting with everyone,you write big long responses, and i hate to break it to you, no one reads them, no one cares..*yawn*
*edit*p.s. i noticed that you put yer gender as undisclosed...are you confused? Last edited by PaIniNyErAnUs; Nov 29, 05 at 03:10 PM.
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Nov 29, 05
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oh ya, BTW, just fyi my mom is ultra socialist and runs a private company that works in a vocational setting with people with mental and physical disabilties. Her views are pretty much opposite of mine, however she has the tact to have civil convesations with people, and respect differences in opinions. Why are you so stubborn and insistant that anyone who disbelieves with your way of thinking is small minded, childish, and ignorant? True intelligence is the ability to see and understand others perspectives, and to realize that trying to force your opinions on others will never work.
You want people to think like you? Try first making a personal connection with an individual,a nd explaining your point of view in a respective and civil manner... might work a little better than randomly calling everyone ignorant and small minded. Arguing only reaffirms others opinions in theri own mind, and gives them the conviction and drive to find proof to back-up their beliefs.
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Nov 29, 05
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Nov 29, 05
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these are the current issues i will be pondering and talking about leading up to a possible new election: Immigration "The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act" "Security Certificates" "bill C-36" in congruence with the "Safe Third Country Agreeements" with the US the possible re-submission of bill C-18 "The Citizenship of Canada Act" Defence/Military: -It was several months before even the backbenchers talked about the new military budget being slid into the overall all picture/ The new budget being doubled to know 25.8 billion Dollars -The increase of soldier deployment in Afghanistan to 8000 in total by 2006. The idea of "peacekeeping" is wrong, that is almost a blatant lie. -the use of special commando force JTF2 as "civilian security liasoons" in Haiti, and Afghanistan? -Why are there just over 5500 defence specific coporations that exist in Canada!? All of which have ties with Government aid at one point or another. International: -The "Responsibilty to Protect" doctorine, which is essentailly a revamping of the previous inherently racist doctorine "The White mans Burden" -Our continuing imperialistic invasion, involvement and occupation of Haiti, Afghanistan, and Iraq - Our corporate raping of third world nations such as Guatemala, and schedualed open pit mining that will all but destroy completely the already fragile eco-system and landscape for indegeous Guatemalans Environment: - Deforestation - The Fisheries Department as a tool of the Canadian Governments full control of all resources - Open pit mining, oil line creations, and additional deforestation on unceded Indegenous land this is just a fraction of whats going on. I still havent mentioned more local issues, transit issues, long term care issues, addiction and mental health services, systamatic violence against gays,lesbians, transgender, prostitutes, and the impovirshed. Please refrain from personal insults if you do not belive in what i do, or we run the risk of deviating from the real important issues. And IF YOU DONT CARE, THE DONT RESPOND, its simple really. Crumb + SEAN!, i wouldnt mind hearing some of your major concerns for this upcoming election?
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Nov 29, 05
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my original post wasnt directed at anyone, i didnt mention any names, and i didnt call out a single specific person -WHEREAS THIS WAS YOUR FIRST REPLY TO ME Quote:
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Nov 29, 05
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Maybe people were wasting their time when they decided to struggle against apartheid in Africa or for women having the right to vote here at home.
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Nov 29, 05
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I'm sorry but do you think the entire board really wants to see you two squabble anymore?
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Nov 29, 05
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Nov 29, 05
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So that's why you came in this thread unprovoked and made sure everyone made sure you knew you couldn't stand him? Like it wasn't abundantly clear before or something? At least Fable and Alex had something relevant to the topic to contribute, even if they said strong words, wrote long paragraphs and people didn't necessarily agree with them.
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Nov 29, 05
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Nov 29, 05
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i know you got some strong opinions - what do think of the current situation? Any feelings on what sort of electional extravaganza the people of Canada are going to get this time around? As much as i come off crazy, i think the vote of non confidence came at a bad time. And im a little unclear about what are the positives, if any?
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Nov 29, 05
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I'm pretty pissed off about it. Seeing as how through the whole fiasco polls constantly showed that those pushing for an election out of Canada's ordinary citizens were in the minority. An unwilling country forced into an election is not really going to go out and vote in record numbers, only the pissed off ones who want to somehow punish Paul Martin or protect him are really going to, and let's face it, Canada is a nation full of apathetic people who can't be bothered to vote. I'm not too sure if the alternative to Mr. Martin is any better, seeing as how he is pushing an election not because of what the country wants, but because of his own personal desire to have more power, which is actually going to cost the country millions and millions of dollars that could have been better spent. Does that make him better than the liberals? I'm not sure. Hate the liberals all you want, but at least they've worked towards a lot of groundbreaking legislation (ie legalizing gay marriage- it's about goddamn time) and have presented balanced budgets for years and done some amazing things for the country economically. We've ALL seen the dangers of voting someone out of government for something seemingly minor from our neighbours to the south (hello, blue dress?)- do we really want to do the same? Do all of these people who are pissed off enough at the liberals enough to vote for C.A. really want Canada in Iraq? Because Stephen Harper is DYING to expand Canada's millitary budget and send them right there. It's very concerning to me. Needless to say, tomorrow I'm attending my first campaign meeting for a local candidate to help out, to get as many people here to vote as possible.
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Nov 29, 05
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Were talking about concerns we have from indegenous rights to law enforcement. This thread is all about opnions and ideas people have about how are country is being run, and what does the future hold, considering the recent vote of non-confidence. If you want slander and shits and giggles, start up another poll next time you get drunk.
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Nov 29, 05
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So what exactly do you agree with and what dont you agree with? do tell
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Nov 29, 05
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As for this particular election, I'd prefer to see the conservatives win a minority. My reason for this is that I'm a libertarian (pro civil and economic freedoms) and I agree and disagree with both the liberals and the conservatives on certain issues. While I'm glad to see legalised gay marriage, I'm not happy with their high spending. Hopefully the Conservatives will cut spending and at the same time will be unable to reverse the civil rights progress that the Liberals made. The way I see it, if we can alternate the two poles constantly, progress will slowly be made in both civil and economic freedoms. This is assuming a rather optimistic viewpoint, I know :\ Last edited by FlorpIncarnate; Nov 29, 05 at 10:22 PM.
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Nov 29, 05
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The reality is that for every dollar the government takes out of the economy and puts into spending it costs 140% of what it would cost for the private sector to do the same thing. Essentially public investment crowds out private investment. Which isn't such a bad thing when we are talking about infrastructure and services which otherwise would not be provided by the private sector in a fashion that is not both efficient and equitable. (the unfortunate thing is that fable, having diminished mental capacity due to his own self admitted drug addiction(you got personal first buddy), might actually think that I am advocating complete laisez faire economics, which I am not) The reality is that if the government actualy wanted to support R&D into areas for purely capitalist ventures, it would not invest in R&D at all and simply lower taxes instead. though as we can see from the government's current budget policies it is almost solely with the intention of increasing social welfare for all Canadians. This distinction is evidenced by the martin government's continued support for increases in publicly funded research in universities (and private companies) for the purposes in R&D. Which is in complete opposition with the Conservative party's emphasis on tax breaks for Canadian companies that engage in research and developments within Canada's borders. See the funny thing is Fable, you, as well as the vast majority of the Canadian population don’t have the necessary education/analytical abilities which enables you to have a more nuanced idea of what these specific economic and financial policies will have on Canadian society and what their SPECIFICS actually reveal about the intentions and ideological frameworks behind them. There is one thing that rings most true about economics, finance and society in general and it’s that everything is in the details. P.S you really are your worst enemy, grab a brain before you start agitating for policies(or 'revolution') which will ultimately fuck you and everyone else over. P.P.S...we all have vested interests, quit playing the victum and take a look at what your's are. p.p.p.s i really need to learn how to write a responce a single time without making typographical or spelling errors. Last edited by SEAN!; Nov 29, 05 at 11:28 PM.
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Nov 29, 05
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hmmm you may have touched on something here. But could a socialist ideal not be rendered useless if the the eventual new technology is used for ulterior purposes? And what happens if all potential profits are not redispersed to the communities across the nation?
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Nov 29, 05
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Do you want to know what is widely believed by economists and historians to be the sole difference between china and England which resulted in one having the industrial revolution and subsequently conquering the world and the other languishing until recently? It’s the support of technological innovation on the part of the government of England, including liberal enlightenment ideals of free though, non government interference in private life and political stability which is the sole difference between the two countries. Otherwise they were the same in sense of trade, resources, population and knowledge base. It was only until the Manchu dynasty when political, technological and social policy changed to a more conservative and restrictive society that England surpassed china. And this is largely due to England’s application of technology increasing its economic social and political benefits. It was this application of technology which preceded widespread colonization despite what people who adhere to your ideology believe. Therefore, it is technological innovation and the appropriate use of this technology which provides the most long term benefits for society in general. When the government supports technological innovation it is not in order to embark on neo-colonialism, warfare or treachery despite how you view our involvement in Afghanistan and Haiti represent. because the reality is, when you look at what really happened the benefits of trade which resulted from the forceful opening of new markets through the processes of colonialism were far outstripped by the social/economic benefits of technological innovation alone (benefits which are long term and irrevocable) and secondly the extend of colonialism/mercantilism which existed in that past period were not possible with out technological innovation. This is not to say that technological advance should be avoided but rather it should be implemented with great measure, concern and practicality in implementation. Last edited by SEAN!; Nov 29, 05 at 11:15 PM.
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Nov 29, 05
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you cannot get people to do something with out incentives, and to create incentives you create inequality which therefore renders socialism unattainable. What do you think a market system is based on? Its not money, it could be anything, the reason it has evolved into a money based system is because society is too complex for anyhting else. you could use force to get people to do things, which has been tried in the past, but guess what, it dosnt work very well, and as you and I would both agree it would be a step backwards. Last edited by SEAN!; Nov 29, 05 at 11:12 PM.
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Nov 30, 05
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The evolution of technology will lead to a further evolution of man. We are all assimilating ourselves unknowingly. I don't pretend to know if that's a bad/good thing. We'll all see in time. As for now I'm positive the powers that be thrive on innovation. But remember, there is nothing new under the sun.
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Nov 30, 05
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What nuances would you like me to look into? What systems am i ignorant to? If i am under the belief that my government and ruling class is corrupt, racist and self serving, i dont understand why i would belive that the financial structures created in this landscape, would be beneficial to me, or the general population. SEAN! you prescrine to a notion that to succeed in life, one needs to work hard, think about #1, learn and play the game better then anyone else. Is this too much of a stretch to assume? If im close, then lemme give you my opinion, on your understanding of economics (no hate!!! just my humble opinion) You are informed, you take the time to study, and you understand the CURRENT landscape. But with saying this you ignore our countrys HISTORY, and you pass of the violence, and inherant greed that perpetuated toppression and death since the first english and french settlers. Do you think that the ideology in such actions in the past are over? What brings you to this belief? You tell me socialism doesnt work, and yet i am not prescribing to the socialism in the text books. I am only trying to push a movement where there is no real seperation between the population and the state. I use Cuba as a model, and i find it ironic that Cuba is the single most important enemy of the US and Canada. Why? Because as the new Imperialist experiments are taking place in Iraq, Afghanistan and in Haiti. The alternate experiments in Venezuela and Cuba are also suceeding. They are in no way perfect, but neither is ours, and yet there is no way in hell you can tell me with a straight face, things are evolving on a positive climb in N.America and the world. you and i are so far apart ideologically that is probably better that we just share opinions at this point, rather than full out debate. Becuase in my mind, i believe you support a system soley becuase of your own chances of success and material gain. What ive been trying to tell you is that i meyself am in a good position, i could honestly say that i would be on track to achieving canadas version of the American Dream, but it would be at the cost of supporting a government and governmental ideology that will destroy the planet. Plain and simple, and all your economics and financial policy understanding, will mean nothing. Its that simple man.
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Nov 30, 05
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You can speak on all the examples you want, my friend, but you keep ignoring the death, the oppression,the lies, the manipulation, the exploitation, as if this is a "normal thing" that this is the price of society? Death i can understand, but the wars of the world were plotted by a few, and at the price of the many. You are so far into your tunnel vision view of the world, you cant realize that i dont want to fight against you, i want you to understand that we , yes WE have more in common then YOU and your corporations, investment bankers, financial planner, economic strategists and ultimatley the government. ECONOMY in north america is built on oppression. I still dont understand how you can dispute this? Last edited by fable; Nov 30, 05 at 03:33 AM.
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