Canadian Election on January 23rd

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

voting for the ndp is the same as voting for the conservatives, the NDP will never be more then fourth place, and therefore have no chance to form a government.

so if you plan on voting ndp, think twice becuase it only solidifys the conservative party's lead.

i think that's a pretty weak statement saying that voting for the NDP is like voting for the conservatives. even though the NDP won't form a government...they can still affect change at the level of individual MP's (we saw that in the last minority government with the liberals).

i reject the idea that you have to either vote for the liberals (who i don't like) and the conservatives (who i like even less). our election is not like the elections in the states; there ARE more parties out there and saying that you are throwing away your vote by supporting one of those parties is ridiculous.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

i think that's a pretty weak statement saying that voting for the NDP is like voting for the conservatives. even though the NDP won't form a government...they can still affect change at the level of individual MP's (we saw that in the last minority government with the liberals).

i reject the idea that you have to either vote for the liberals (who i don't like) and the conservatives (who i like even less). our election is not like the elections in the states; there ARE more parties out there and saying that you are throwing away your vote by supporting one of those parties is ridiculous.

what good is voting for the NDP when the conservatives are going to win? the MP's who are not members of the ruling parties have very little leverage to effect any amount of change. In a majority situation the governing party can do whatever they want, the opposition cannot stop them and party disipline ensures that all the MPs follow the line. The only time when opposition parties have a chance at effecting change is when a free vote is held in parliament, otherwise all they are good for is providing toothless dissent in parliment against the policies which the governing party implements. the ndp only had juice in the last government is because the liberals had a minority government and needed their support, majority governments dont need any support from the oppositiong parties and by the looks of it it seems that the conservatives will win a majority especially since the centre left vote is being split between the liberals and the ndp.

the question is who would you rather have run the country? the liberals or the conservatives because voting for anyone else is a waste as no third party has an outside chance of winning. Even the bloc quebecios will have nearly double the seats that the ndp has. You need to vote strategically or otherwise the conservatives will win a majority and then they can do pretty much anything they like.


its simply a game of picking the lesser of two evils.

[sidekick]

^i know the difference between a majority and minority government. i know that if the conservatives win a majority that the opposition parties hold very little weight. but i'm not sure if the conservatives are going to win a majority yet...polls can change in a hearbeat as they have the last few days. it looks like we are going to have to deal with a conservative government whether a minority or a majority and i want to know that my vote was cast toward a party that i believed in rather than one i didn't.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

^i know the difference between a majority and minority government. i know that if the conservatives win a majority that the opposition parties hold very little weight. but i'm not sure if the conservatives are going to win a majority yet...polls can change in a hearbeat as they have the last few days. it looks like we are going to have to deal with a conservative government whether a minority or a majority and i want to know that my vote was cast toward a party that i believed in rather than one i didn't.

im wondering that the chances, and subsequent eventaulity would be, if "everyone" just voted for who they believed in the most? I wonder if all this talk of "strategic voting" is really just actaully reactionary, and reactive to a public paranoia?

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by fable

im wondering that the chances, and subsequent eventaulity would be, if "everyone" just voted for who they believed in the most? I wonder if all this talk of "strategic voting" is really just actaully reactionary, and reactive to a public paranoia?

reactionary? have you read your own posts?

[Goat]

thx, that explains a lot.

So does your face
:(

[Sir_K]

All I can say is that I am ashamed of the 30 second sound byte culture we live in.

Here we have a leader that has successfully remade himself over from a radical right-wing neo-conservative to a moderate compassionate conservative and has made issues that were buried (ie. Sponsorship - those in Martins government were exonerated by Gomery - and Gomery was Mulroney - the last Conserative Government's - chief of staff). into real issues by the repetition only.

While I'm a Liberal and I am disgusted with the antics of the handful that have caused my favorite party to be shamed, I would be willing to vote for a party with simmilar values to teach them a lesson however none such exist.

The NDP is basically the Big Union Party, here in BC we should know that well with the massive ($15 million) contribution they made to our last Provincial Election - and unlike the BC Liberals they ARE directly affilated provincially and federally.

The Conservatives are basically the "son-of-Bush" party, their 2000 platform had 18 of 21 bullet points basically word for word copied from the 2000 Compassionate Conservative platform of GW Bush, I dont need to mention the things Harper has said and is viewed as by Americans because it's all over the news right now.

The Liberals with all of their scandal are bascially as I see it the only party that really is based on Canadian values. If the National Party of Canada was still around I'd be all over them however they are gone, and the Liberals are all we really have.

To each unto their own, please vote, for whatever party you support yourself but please do check into the issues, with regards to Harper, I want you to go to www.stephenharpersaid.ca and honestly read in and out of context who this guy really is if you are thinking of voting for him.

Myself I'm not a Martinite I am more of a Chreitien fan and wish that John Manley won the Liberal leadership but I'm actually quite frustrated with how the media has reported on Harper, it is like right out of Orwell's 1984, they dont seem to connect in a linear fashion the Harper of yesterday and every day before that with the Harper of today.

Beleive me, if this guy gets in, you will understand that he is NOT a middle-of-the road compassionate conservative. I beleive that the average American is in full understanding of how Bush's platform is not one of compassionate conservativism either... Finally.

Please, VOTE. For whoever you want. Just understand the issues.

[Sir_K]

With regards to strategic voting it is important to understand one thing.

If you love the NDP or the Greens or anybody right now it is very important that you understand one thing.

The reason that the Liberals won four consecutive terms is this.

The right was dividied and the left was the Liberals and some fringe parties. (at that time the NDP was basically a fringe federally too).

Right now the Conservatives (right) are united and the left (NDP, Liberals, Greens) are divided.

So yes right now a vote for the NDP is a vote for the Conservatives. Layton has some good ideas yes but he doesnt have a hope in hell of forming a government. The opposition can only do so much.

If you let the NDP vote-split by supporting them, you hand the riding to the Conservatives.

Traditionally we usually have a 50-50 split left and right. If you say that the Liberals have 40% of the left, the NDP 18% and fringe 2%, versus the Conservatives at 90% of the right, a Conservative candidate will win the riding.

Its unfortunate but this is a vote about Canada. The Canada we love, that wants to decriminalize Marijuana and legalize same sex marriages and keep legalized abortion and basically be a progressive country that kicks some serious ass at just moving forward when nations like the USA are held back.

Let the Conservatives win and you'll get a country quagmired in debate about how to undo abortion legislation, how to undo same-sex marriage legislation. You'll get a country that goes to Iraq even though 70% of people dont want us to be there. I played records at the anti-Iraq protests and saw people there in clothes ranging from suits to rags. This is Canada.

I love my Canada - I love YOUR Canada. I just dont love Harper's Canada.

[fable]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

reactionary? have you read your own posts?

Reactionary has nothing to do with "reactivity" its a term refering to something or some mindset being resistant to an alternate progression. You think the things i talk about fall under this category?

[fable]

Originally Posted by Goat

So does your face
:(

OOOOHHH SNAPPPP!!!! sniff sniff, i smell burnt brain cells! You should take a nap.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Sir_K

If you let the NDP vote-split by supporting them, you hand the riding to the Conservatives.

there is zero chance of a conservative winning in my riding. i am voting NDP.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Sir_K

You'll get a country that goes to Iraq even though 70% of people dont want us to be there.

i highly doubt that if the conservatives win (even if they win a majority) that we will be sending troups over to iraq. that is one of the things that made him wildly unpopular in 2004 and i doubt he would try that again just as he pulling ahead in popularity in canada.

i don't like the conservatives, but what you just said is mostly scare tactic.

[Only_Glory]

great thread, i encourage all you guys to get everyone to read ja_raul's post

[Sir_K]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

i highly doubt that if the conservatives win (even if they win a majority) that we will be sending troups over to iraq. that is one of the things that made him wildly unpopular in 2004 and i doubt he would try that again just as he pulling ahead in popularity in canada.

i don't like the conservatives, but what you just said is mostly scare tactic.

No. It isnt.

While I doubt that he would be sending troops to Iraq, we have another axis-of-evil being referred to the Security Council right now - Iran. While the situation is different, the country is different, the fundamental Canadian value that we do not make war, we keep the peace is the same. George W. Bush and the RNC hawks like Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Cheney would love to bomb Iran so they can start another war at great profit, if they can make it happen.

Given the facts he had at hand last time, I dont think I would trust this man to make the decision a second time.

This is not a scare tactic. It is reality.

[fable]

the fundamental Canadian value that we do not make war, we keep the peace is the same.

This illusion needs to be destroyed.

[Sir_K]

Originally Posted by fable

This illusion needs to be destroyed.

You're on your own with that one.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Sir_K

You're on your own with that one.

no actaully, im not.

I should i assume your reluctance to support such endevours, is somehow supportive of the lies that manage to have members of the general population swallow just bullshit?

[Mangle]

Highlights from a Stephen Harper speach given in 1997 to a American Think-Tank:

But seriously, your country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world.

As long as there are exams, there will always be prayer in schools.

It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians.

First, facts about Canada. Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it. In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance.

the left wing agenda [is] to basically disintegrate our society in all kinds of spectrums.

They [The NDP, or, by implication, left-minded parties] were in favor of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially for the entrenchment [nice word...] of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country. [So... universal healthcare is bad?]

A country like Canada will never have as strong a national identity as you do in the United States.
You just have to accept that and get questions of ethnicity out of the national government.

[miss.myra]

gah! why isn't this thread sticky yet?

To find your electoral district

http://www.elections.ca/scripts/pss/FindED.aspx?L=e

You can find out where to vote from that page by entering your address info!

Remember, even if you haven't receieved an addressed voter information card in the mail, you can still go to the polling station with photo id that shows your address, or come with something that shows your current address.

[miss.myra]

*buuump*

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

*buuump*

Indeed.

[kiMMie]

Sticky'ed until elections are over :)

Happy voting!

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by kiMMie

Sticky'ed until elections are over :)
Happy voting!

Nice one. I hope you all have election parties planned. This is the time of the every year and a half or so that all Canadians, all of its tribes, colours, sexes, and whoever elses, to join together and rejoice spastically at the sensation of being totally irrelevant in the entire electoral process. If Libby Davies wins in my riding, that will be the first person I've ever voted for that won. I have to admit I’m kind of excited about that. So far, she's only one of a few I've ever voted for who has even had a chance (though I would like to thank the Work Less party for making the NPA domination more entertaining). Hooray for democracy!

[DJDeeb]

Excellent thread:y:

Everyone, Get out and VOTE!


thanks

[ja_raul]

alright, i went in and i voted, anyone else?