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Feb 09, 06
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those fucking comics!
yeah, you knew this was coming.
I personally believe the comics were in bad taste. The fact that in the western world there seems to be a more lenient collective attitude towards ripping on religeous figures, really has no relvency in determining the legitimacy of the uprising taken by some communities in the name of Islam. At the moment my current belief, is this recent campaign, was a smear campaign which in light of the EU and US pushing forward an agenda that calls for offensives to be launched in Iran, seems well timed, and well orchestrated. Id go so far as believing that the reaction by muslim communities was almost expected, and only adds to a growing islamaphobia in North America, and across the world. It is important to note, that simmering resentments, and all out hostility towards european nations, the UK and the US were just waiting for something like this, for it to boil over. Id say, that a large portion of hostility and all out hate on the part of muslim communities is justified, in light of the last decade of war. BUT!!!! I think the fact that current demonstrations/protests, and out of control gatherings are not aiding the situation simply because of the fact, that a large contingent of the world community may look at the source as simply being the comics, and not the years upon years of active oppression taken on by the US, Europe, Zionist and Neo Con/Christian lobby groups. Which is a fucking shame. And has me in a series inner conflict because: On one side, the people REPRESENTED in these uprising fundermentalist islamic communities, have ALL the right to resist, to uprise, to be pissed. The make up is comprised of many Iraqi and Afhgan peoples, and middle eastern supporters of these people who have faced both colonialist, and imperialist oppression. On the other, the fact that these comics are being seen as the rallying point, by many who may not be completely or well informed on the historical oppression may just outright distrust, call down, and perhaps even hate the recent uprising. Its disgusting how Bushy Jr, and the collective European press are using this as a banner for freedom of the press. Its disgusting how transperant the real core agenda is, and ultimately its most disgusting how legitimate grudges, and demands are being drownded out and trampled underfoot what is could be said to be extremely reactionary protest. Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing that i hate close as much as super power imperialist nations, is organized religeon. I know in times when strong leadership is needed, and all their is a fractured society on one side, fundementalism on the other, the choices are meager, but, personally i think that said communities have more than enough legitimate beef, and support, to need to rely on fundementalist powers. FUCK!!!! Sometimes i wonder if we could get all the heads of all the major religeons, and poli-religeous lobby groups and put them in a giant blender, and turn on puree, things would be a lot simpler, in the political realm. But i know even this mass blendage would do little to stop the new breed of picking up the dogmatic banners of the old guard. man, strike the last paragraph, it is pure reactionaryism, and utterly detramental to a resistance, and uprising that needs to happen, in light of Imperialist power growing. Last edited by fable; Feb 09, 06 at 11:55 PM. 
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Feb 09, 06
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I think they overreacted. Its a cartoon for crying out loud.
You would'nt catch me screaming bloody murder in the streets because some lame ass Charles Schultz motherfucker talked shit about my god.
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Feb 09, 06
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whooooo cares.
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Feb 09, 06
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i know nothing, so who knows about you.
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Feb 09, 06
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Feb 09, 06
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Hey ebbo, and silver, you guys are stepping over the line! To think that the reaction to the comics, is soley based on the comics alone is UTTER IGNORANCE! pure and simple.
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Unless you can counter the reality that muslim peoples in the middle east have suffered under brutal oppression from the US, EUROPE, UK and Canadian Imperialist governments, and subsequent military forces ,your grossel simplifying the current reaction, and bordering on the racist, considering your comments are muslim specific. What are the protesters doing? Burning flags? Burning down embassies. property, property of imperialist governments?!? Meanwhile danish police are shooting muslim protestors!?!?! Property over fucking lives? Study up a bit of active oppression of muslims in Denmark. Its been fucking brutal! Okay, okay, im getting riled, up, and personally, i hate organized religeon but please please please look into the current uprisings closely. What does this mobilization represent!?!? Who does it represent!?!?! and most importantly WHY!!!!!?!?!?!?! Iraq war? Afghanistan war? Civilians of these nations have had everything taken away from them. Perhaps if this wasnt the case, then such a reaction to the comics wound be ludicrous(but would it have happended in the first place!?) But that isnt the case, and now after their homes, businesses have been destroyed, after their nations have been ground into the dust, after hundreds of thousands have died, starved, been beaten down, now even their simbolism is being shit on. And isnt the timing convenient? Isnt the support even more convenient!? Look whos throwing the support!?!? The US administration!? WIth old rummy calling Chavez hitler!?!?! And now even bushy thinks he can speak legitimetly!?!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK!! Its ISLAMAPHOBIA being perpetuated by media that works for their respective imperialist governments!!! Yes, i fully admit, i hate religeon, but once again, who are the people are are resisting, and raging?!?!? Just religeous fanatics who have nothing better to do, then peddle thier fundementalist bullshit!?!? NO! NO! NO! Its people who have taken too much. The international environment is taken another massive step into polarization, one that needs to happen. There will be a protest and march on Feb 18th, starting at the VAG, and ending at the Danish Embassy. More details to come.
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Feb 10, 06
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Nothing is ever "Just" a cartoon or "just" a tv skit or anything like that.
If say I drew a comic making fun of black people I dont think people will be protecting my freedom of speach Thats not the point tho, the world is full of racism, this is nothing
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Feb 10, 06
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Please Please Please Please Please Focus Not On The Religeon, But Reather The People Who Follow Said Religeon. If The Religeon Was Different, It Still Wouldnt Erase The Real Core Issue, And Rage. This Rage Revolving Around Imperialist Powers And What They Have, Are And Will Continue To Do In The Middle East.
Research What Your Are Currently Seeing And Reading In The Media(like Usuall) It Is In The Imperilist Powers Best Interest To Stir Up Anti Muslim Sentiment In North America. Simplifying The Issue To Just The Comics, Detracts From The Real Oppression Understaken By The Us, Canada, The Uk, And Europe! This Uprising Is A Manifestation Of The Middle Eastern Communities Having Enough. There Homes Have Been Detroyed, Their Livelyhoods Crushed, And Lives Extinguished, All In The Name Of Instilling Democracy!?!?!?! This Is What They Are Fighting Against. Its Sooooo Much More Than The Comics
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Feb 10, 06
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I think the people who champion free speech need to take a closer look at what it's like to live in the middle east. It's a very religious place. These people have been raised to live very closely to their faith and with the current international system, a lot of these young muslims feel targeted and subjugated by the world at large. Of course they are going to react this way. Its about respect and responsibility not free speech.
Generalizing a religious prophet as a "terrorist" is not only ignorant but unfounded. For some of these people, faith in religion is all they have.
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Feb 10, 06
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probably not the case but non the less, its a fascinating thought to consider and explore....
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Feb 10, 06
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Realistically though, in the current situation, it doesnt matter really if theyre right about their god or not. I think 'cpher was able to describe what i was saying in a far more rational coherant way, Many of muslims involved in the current uprising, have had so much taken away from them, in the course of invasion and occupation since the the early 1900's on, that all they have left is thier faith, which more often than non, is concentrated through their prophet. The recent slight, on its own, if it didnt trail the history that is it had, might have evoked a different responce, but like i mentioned before, its the pot boiling over. Its wierd, one hand i wish all the violence in the world visited upon the imperialist powers that be, but, it never turns out that simple, innocents are always swept away in the madness. But what strength could lets say a ghandi really do in this place? Or others such like them. Part of me believes pacifism in the face of vile, and greed oriantated acts is the absolute power, but when will it have its time? When will its memory in martytism have an effect on a large enough population?
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Feb 10, 06
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[/quote] I think 'cpher was able to describe what i was saying in a far more rational coherant way, [/quote] tssk, buddy what i said had nothing to do with what you were saying. Last edited by Revolver; Feb 10, 06 at 01:33 AM.
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Feb 10, 06
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Freedom of speech or go back to your fcuking country and STFU.
Last time I checked Holland is white not Arab. What next all white women gotta wear Burkas ? You have religion and a way of thinking that applies in certain countries. Fuck off to your own country and quit telling people wtf to do. And thats mainly directed @ Amerisrael.:pissed:
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Feb 10, 06
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I think the comics were in poor taste, but in this modern day and age we have freedom of speech. Have Muslim newspapers ever printed cartoons with anti Jewish/Israel sentiments blatantly displayed? You bet!
I really think that everyone who doesn't see this as a big deal should step back and try not to judge another culture or religion based on the standards of your own (or lack thereof.) this is basically one of the most insulting things you can do to Muslims, who certainly aren't the first religion to be insulted in this manner, of course. Anyways, had this happened at a time when there was less collective tension against the arab world and the religion of Islam coming from just about everywhere else, I doubt the reaction would be this strong. Perhaps it was a ticking timebomb and anything, no matter how light, could break the camel's back.
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Feb 10, 06
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There was an early reaction to the LACK OF a reaction here in Canada, but with major mobilization in halifax already taking place, a mass protest in Montreal slated in the next little while, i think the solidarity action here in Vancouver on the 18th is going to be major. I hope, and intend to anything i possible can, to illustrate the core issues that many heads of state are currently trying to burry, Its a wierd day, when you have the likes of George Bush, defending freedom of speech. Quote:
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Feb 10, 06
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i love it when flamebait works.
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I'm skipping through most of your post here because honestly, i agree with a bunch of it and i'll try to keep my selections as in-context as possible. Quote:
the last time the US had to make ridiculous war sacrifices to their economy was probably in wwii. that was because they had to spend a ridiculous amount defending europe. if these anti-US governments and militaries (remind me what the difference is?) were to start things somewhere like denmark, you can get to the whole EU. Shit starts to break down there, the us will have to intervene, thinking huzzah, we are defenders of Right and Just (two english words for 'allah', btw) we shall save europe, and "axis of terrorists" will just keep building the sentiment. then watch what china does. i gotta stop posting while baked. Quote:
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Feb 10, 06
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Feb 10, 06
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I hear what your saying about, bringing the current 'going ons' to the american peoples footsteps. I can just see those who see US imperialism as an answer to the "terrorist threat" eating it up whole, without stopping to breathe. Many of which, wouldnt even be able find Denmark on the fucking map, let alone speak on the nations consistant brush ins with anti-arab sentiment historically. "Violence begets violence" - man this is more true than ever. I constinantly share, then i could really give two fucks about peace, at this moment in time, but somethings gotta give, and it still has to be powerful enough to stand up to governmental lies. My first post, was my first and only critisism of the current uprising of muslim communities, and mainly because of soley the choice of timing. From here on end, its all about an increased effort, at trying to share knowledge on Imperialist Powers, but man, i wish there was an alternative, to the bloodbath that is currently happening, and will continue to do so. fuck. Almost makes me wanna blaze one to head. Almost.
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Feb 10, 06
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here's my 2 cents on this....
Personally at this stage.... people should of gotten over it along time ago.... I mean seriously look at the whole situation.... Now if they are such "devoted" muslims and they know what the koran and there prophet is all about and such.... then one would ignore the ignorance of the "non-believer / non-believers" because they would know who and what there prophet is all about. Instead they rather freak out because there afraid as to how the cartoon will depict the prophet to the whole world....And let me guess by going around burning shit down..... now people getting killed is really supposed to defend your prophet??? It kinda leaves me to believe that these cartoons could possibly depict the truth and the muslims are scared????? I mean really.... You look at the christians and how many comics depict jesus and what not.... Do you see christians marching down the street freaking out.... nope.... quite frankly they don't give a fuck.... why because they know who there "lord" is and the so called "non-believers" are ignorant. I dunno maybe its uneducated individuals that roam the street... The extremist movement in islam is destroying what there prophet represents and so does the koran... Lots of extremist religious schools... kids are not tought how to do math and such.... they are brainwashed with a botched version of the Koran that depicts hate.
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Feb 10, 06
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Religion and politics have to be separated.
They were connected in Europe as well in the medi eval times and also longer in some countries, but In my opinion the most important thing to achieve in today´s governments everywhere is the separation of church and State. And fable, you know more things than I do about these topics and also more than other people do, but I think you are overreacting to some posts.... Some people just watch the news and believe what the news tell them.
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