Jun 23, 06
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Who is being the judgemental racist now?? What because I am white and live in Surrey my ideals are somehow less worthy then that of say Natives, or Latin Canadians?? Sorry pal that is crap my family emigrated to this country in my grandfathers generation. My grandfathers family escaped from a country that knew a thing or 2 about opression. I have been back to my native land and I can say with a 99% assurance that being native or being a visible minority in Canada is far better of then living in Ukraine. It just really gets under my skin that on Canada you can't seem to sit back and look and say you know what this isn't so bad it could be a lot worse. Give some thanks to the fact that you are allowed to protest and hold rallies against the government. Cause believe me things could be really a whole lot worse.. 
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Jun 23, 06
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Just cause i'm not on fnk ranting on and on about my political views doesn't mean they don't run deep because they do. I just don't care about your opinion enough to debate my opinions with you. And i couldn't care less about hip hop or your events, haha i don't even like walls! especially permission walls. Last edited by Clayton.; Jun 23, 06 at 05:49 PM.
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Jun 23, 06
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I love LAMP !!
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Jun 23, 06
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Jun 23, 06
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so fable.... what are your views then well quite frankly the slave labor that happens over sea's.... (take a look at your shoe's) or how about the tech industry that sends all of its old computer equipment out to third world countries where they have landfills staked out exposing everyone to PCB's and other hazardous materials in that area????
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Jun 23, 06
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> All this tells me is that you do not know enough about the environment said groups experience in this country, or what others in other countries face as a result of foreign policy, military occupation, mining etc etc. Hence i commented on it. And your remark about the Ukraine is completely false. I know the situation in Ukraine is tough, and I know well about how the situations that working people and poor people face their stem from the same core as here. But similar conditions DO exist here for many people. I can understand your sentiment about appreciating the certain rights and freedoms we have here, but the structural racism and oppression far outweigh the benefits. Like I mentioned before, there is certain amont of pacification that is intended with these sort of events and ultimentally they are detremental to a true and honest movement of united peoples. And yes your opinions are important, and hence why we are still having somewhat of sembelance of a discussion and not an outright shitacane. As a caucasian person you DO NOT face the levels of structural racism and prejudice as other ethnic groups. BUT as a working person, and someone who I am assuming lives on a modest income and as a young person YOU DO face various other forms of attack. But instead of connecting yourself with the struggles of others (some with similiar struggles, some with very different ones) you are holding onto the offence you have taken because I do not belive in the idea of "canada." Perhaps its that you havent trully been exposed to the things Im talking about. Perhaps trips to reserves across this country might help. Maybe living in the downtown eastside. Maybe talk to rankin file members in the HEU, TWU, CMG, BCTF, BCGU, etc etc. Maybe vist a mosque or two? Obviously niether you are I are going to Afghanistan or Haiti any time soon, but how much more history and current reality do you need to see, before you figure out that our military was sent to these places for anything but humanitarian aid. Maybe a trip to Guatemala, or other areas in Canada, to any number of open pit mines? Maybe the dwindling mental health and addiction facilaties? Remember that there are attacks at home and abroad. When you celebrate Canada day, it may be to celebrate your level of comfort, or safety, but these things have nothing to do with the state. If the state could operate in such a manner, you would have nothing, I would probably be dead. That is what I am talking about. That the freedoms you have, where fought for by people like you and I. Not the people in parliment or big business. And it is these structures that peddle and push "Canada Day" So the general public in the midst of their celebration forgets or downplays the crimes that are commited. The maple leaf and the name and our borders mean nothing. The people do, and so do their struggles. You matter, your family matters, your friends matter, but your country means nothing. Your identity as a working person, as a human being, and somene who is intelligent and has the ability to make change means everything. Look at whats going on RIGHT NOW: -unions being broken -working conditions being lowered -aborignal peoples being driven off land/assimilated, exploitated, manipulated -immigrants face more scrutiny then ever -faith is being lumped in with political extremism -fear mongering, and loss of liberties for the illusion of "security I can go on forever bong. I know you're not a stupid kid. And I know Canada day is important to you, becuase you feel an affinity to specific ideals. But the nation has nothing to do with these ideals. People like you do. People like the millions in struggle today. And to show respect and solidarity with these people would mean to join them in their struggles, and NOT celebrate the symbol of their oppressors. Similiar environments have existed in Europe too. Where a people where oppressed by not just domestic structures but international ones as well. Like Canada, the US and obviously the UK. I had no intention of pissing in your cornflakes mate. But its because of the attacks on rights and freedoms that I cannot celebrate alongside you, NOT because I despise you, or most people on this nation or in this world, rather its the small minority that rule such nations. Obviously you are going to be partying hard on Canada day, but ive asked you before and I will invite you again to an event at any time. I honestly think that even though we have had heated dialogue, in person, we could have a good discussion. Think about it. Otherwise, take care. pc.ez shak
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Jun 23, 06
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You are completely correct! All these things exist, and then some. And our government is one of the top reasons alongside other imperialist nations for such realites. If you are speaking about me personally, then I fully admit, that as a result of perhaps something I wear or eat, someone else is getting oppressed. But i have never argued against the reality that change will take time, rather I argue against specific ideology or lack of action. There are people like you and I everywhere, and we have to work in solidarity with them as well. Similiar peoples, seperated by bullshit borders, fight the same fights. But wheras in a nation like afghanistan where people are facing the foreign imperialist engine, we live right inside of it. What are some of YOUR views on the things you mentioned? Why do you think they are what they are? Who do you think are behind it?
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Jun 23, 06
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Bullshit. The most succesful revolutions and movements from social change started from the ground up. There are some major differences living in Canada, as it is a capitalist nation, but but we are only small right now, but growing everyday. The more people realize that we have been convinced to give up our right to self government in exchange for creature comforts and "security" and that the very people who claim to provide these are the very people and structures that exploit us, the more people will be prone to unite. You have no fucking clue about anything in my life or what Ive seen, so drop the empty, baseless asumption and use that spraycan for something other than an autograph.
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Jun 23, 06
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When you say that because I am white I do not face racism you are way off on that one. I have encountered racism from everyone be it Asian, Middle Eastern, so on and so forth I have had friends beaten for walking down the wrong street in Surrey by Ethnic gangs. For the longest time you couldn't walk through a certain part of trails in Surrey at nigth due to Muslim gangs. Just because I am caucasion does not mean I am above feeling the racism that is out there. I have found that when assholes tend to get into groups no matter what theire race they tend to pick on the minority. It isn't right but unfortunatly it seems to be the way of most people. I am willing to bet that when a group of young natives get together they would be guilty of this very same thing. I know I have before I am not proud of it and I try to curb it but, I am human and I do occasionally let a offensive remark slip but I am also usually the first to say "hi" or "hello" to anyone I see walking down the street.
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Jun 23, 06
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Then if your statement is indeed correct to which you just stated "If you are speaking about me personally, then I fully admit, that as a result of perhaps something I wear or eat, someone else is getting oppressed." all your other statements and protests are towards yourself. You and myself and others are consumers.... consumers hurt and oppress people in third world countries, who are you to now judge the government when "you" the citizen consume to the masses? Your views are valid if your a hobbit out in the woods. But what you say and what your own action contricts EVERYTHING you believe in whether intended or not.... As per afghanistan and imperialists??? Dunno what to say there keep in mind you go way back in history and there was a huge buddhist society that was there. Call afghanistan occupation? or any other countries as occupation??? Each and every civilized continent has encountered a change in leadership..views.... religion..... Its the tactic's that have been used and the technology that exploits the oppressed. But again you look at history... and man has been doing this FOREVER.... So in reality get over it because its never going to change, its a rolling never ending cycle...
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Jun 23, 06
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Its weird, my life growing up saw me facing racism, as well as ostercization from people of my own or similair cultures. All this makes it all the more important to destroy the root. And the invitation to an event is ALWAYS on the table. We are going to have an outdoor show at the skatepark in fleetwood for our 2nd annual hiphop festival against war and occupation. (im not sure of the name?) This might be a good opp. for you to come out.
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Jun 23, 06
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You would be suprised by my consumerist habits. Its not perfect, but is quite far from a "societal norm" if ever one existed. As for contridiction, there is far less than you think. I do not create the environment in which I live, and very few do. Its how we react, and attempt to change it, that matters. Imperialism involves a capitalist nation bring their economic models and forcing them on a sovereign nation for their own benefits. It involves military invasion and occupation, and does nothing for the nation. There may still be facets of my consumption that exploit another person, but I do not pay the wages or run the factories, or order the military invasion, It is these things we need to fight first. I have never told anyone to change their consumerism first and foremost, as this is impossible. First we need to change the environment that essentially forces us to consume in a respective manner, lest we completely isolate ourselves from eachother. You reasoniong tends to lean towards releasing our masters from any accountability, and it also does not take into account class oppression, captialist exploitation or structural racism. You are only looking at things through consumerism, and although it plays a significant role, there are forms of oppression far more reaching and impactful. There is a neccessary order of change, and we as a society cannot go from our capitalist system to some full blow ideal of socialism in the blink of an eye, or war. It comes down to connecting the similar plight of people acorss the globe, and relating them to our own domestic struggles. And the "rolling never ending cycle" you talk about is also synthetic, and it is already starting to erode.
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Jun 23, 06
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Jun 23, 06
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Ok
But still your claims on the so called occupation doesn't justify what has already occured in afghanistan years and years ago.... The Russians led by Leonid Brezhnev slaughtered 900,000 afghan's based on an invasion that was launched to take over afghanistan and classify it as part of the russian federation... However the once known rebel group also known as the taliban drove them out and then made themselves there own government.... corrupted to the point where radicallist moved in.... implemented laws that oppressed there own people and then built a hatred amongst others and supported other radical ideology's. In the end they supported an extremists that flew 2 commercial aircrafts into 2 of top 10 worlds large structures and one into a military headquarters building. The taliban was driven out for a reason.... Karzai is forming a government and money is flowing to improve afghanistan and rebuild it. Our boys are out there to keep the peace... and nothing more....
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Jun 23, 06
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Today we find a people being run by a US propped government that only one support from less than 20% of the population. The countries main humanitarian movement (rawa) condemns the northern alliance staffed government and all coillition forces. Today we find anyone resisting the invasion lablelled "taliban" The nature of the occupation is to facillatate the aquisition of business and resources. The people are shattered, the lifespan drastically lowered, and civil service non existant. You have a good grasp of the propaganda, but not of the objective condtitions, or the inherant rights of a sovereign nation to self determination. In our so called assistance, which in reality is text book imperialism, we have formed an environment where there is chaos. A country must wage its own battle for self government and human rights. Our military occupation is along the line of 20 years of occupation. We have done nothing for Afghanistan. More importantly the people of Afghanistan are trying to tell the world though their resistance, and the people who are listening are growing. You are painting a picture of good muslim and bad muslim with your use of "radical" and "extreme" You use it in the same context as the US and Canadian government do. You are confusing the cultural manifestation of fatih, and the political one. When you have had everything taken from you, over two decades from foreign occupation, whether it be Russian, American, Canadian, British or French, survival cannot be labelled as radical. The idea of who the Taliban really are have been distored and used for Western Imperialist interest. At one time they where an oppressive force, but where given power by a foreign nation. And now the difference between who is an authentic Taliban and who is just a person in a desperate situation has been exploited and warped by western nations. We have no right to be there, and the government there who is allowing us, was put in power by the very people who occupy it. You are ignoring what it really means to have self determination and your remarks echo a western arrogance that says we know best, and we will impose our ways upon you. Ways that are not the ways of common people in North America, but the ruling elite and government.
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Jun 23, 06
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Unlike talk about horses and personal interest, issues that revolve around oppression dont translate into a couple of glib remarks. What does my work, or beliefs have to do with a "god complex?" Do you even know what that phrase means? Im talking about people in struggle and imperialist war, and you think it has to do with me? Get a grip hun. And the crack about a soul? Your perspective is very confused - How does fighting or beleiving in struggle for human rights under oppressive rule any way indicative of a lack of a soul? Your just shouting remarks that mean nothing and have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You dont know me, what I do, or even what Im about. But this seems to have been you MO since you got on this board. If you dont want to contribute, fine, if you dont agree, then put your point across, but if its just empty judgements, get in line. There are heads on this board with far more intelligent and relevent dissenting opinions than that of you.
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Jun 23, 06
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so what your telling me is that before all this 9/11 bullshit that triggers everything...... your telling me that your supporting the taliban movement where they oppressed there own people....???? The taliban was using money that was being brought in from pakistan to be intended to be used to go towards the economy towards the afghan people but instead they spent it on arms and sending the money over to warlords so they can expand there opium fields (to which aghan is the number 1 opium exporter in the world) to be sold as drugs on the international market?? The northern alliance obviously opposed this and wanted to make sure that the money go's towards the people and not the warlords and yes they would die for that right?????
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Jun 23, 06
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the soul remark was made as a general statement, not a personal jab.
i just don't see the point in living in a country if you're going to bitch about it. perhaps you quit bitching about it, but i quit reading your excessive posts a long time ago. if i'm wrong, then i apologize. but until you learn to condense your thoughts....
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Jun 23, 06
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Its reletive to your own experience of having your beliefs challenged. Yours and my ego are irrelevent. I dont challenge points of thought with my own, because I think Im better, I challenge because many beliefs are so entrenched, and our environment is so fucked up, that it becomes neccesary. Im probably one of the most self depreciating people on this thread. I do not hide my past as a junkie living on the street. I do not hide the fact that I have a temper, or are over sensitive. I have admitted mistakes in approach more times than I can remember, and I have also faced the fact that I can be overly agressive, militant and heated. I have never once said I was better than anyone, but I do not back down from pushing forward a point. We are talking about life and death, not hockey, so ultimately things are going to get intense. But im still here, and so are you. So perhaps somewhere in between some genuine understanding can be achieved.
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Jun 23, 06
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if i'm wrong, then i apologize. but until you learn to condense your thoughts....[/quote] If you dont read what Im writing about, then how can you comment on it? I think you're someone who has made an incorrect asessment of what Im about, and are running off other peoples comments towards me. If you want to talk about some of the topics that we where discussing then do so, otherwise, why are we talking? Last edited by fable; Jun 23, 06 at 11:21 PM.
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