Is Ottawa listening in? No one seems to care

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Scarface

Played Rhetoric? I love irony. Mind numbing ignorance? Didn't we just address the matter of opinion thing? Jaded and misinformed? If social injustice is this troubling for you , it's going to be a sad existence. Spend more time actually doing something instead of pwning lowly ignorant rednecks like me on the internet. Get a sandwich board and march on ottawa. Burn your bra.... write a letter to your MP.

Spaghetti , spaghetti, spaghetti.

I value opinions that can civilly agree to disagree. Seeing how you care not to practice this but would rather pigeon hole me as some sort of bleeding heart hippy, I find your post utterly useless other than to point out your own stupidity. All you seem to know is conjecture, so get the fuck out of this thread, because you have nothing more to add in it other than more dick waving. Atleast my rhetoric makes sense, you're just a jaded stoolie without the heart to admit they could be wrong....and yes, you have been "pwned".

[fable]

Lemmings...like all of the bleeding heart liberals who believe that right wing conservatives are the "bad guys". Did you ever stop to think that maybe your ideologies aren't correct? Myabe the way you think is the wrong way?

PLEASE stop comparing canada with the Gestapo. You seem way smarter than that. Shipped to camps ...like in china? Oh please. Melodramatics. "the man" doesn't exist ...there isn't some guy somewhere doing things to strip us of our freedom. And remember , just because you're paranoid , don't mean they're not after you . "lol"

Komagata Maru, "Yellow" Fever, Internment Camps, residential schools, reservations, Indian act, third party citizens act, union busting, armed transit and border guards, security certificates, ignorance of treaties (i.e. 97% of BC is unseeded Indigenous territory), Winnipeg general strike, Gustafson Lake, Oka, Burnt Church, FLQ, Tendenega(sp?), Skel-kwe-kwelt, downtown eastside, Six Nations, starlight tours……
Perhaps a little less LOLING and a tad more READING would be beneficial for you mate. The precedent of government oppression and all out hostility towards Aboriginals, Immigrants, Refugees, women, working /poor peoples, and students is significant enough to merit a connection being made between historic and contemporary acts.
Melodramatic? That’s a slap in the face for any human being with a shred of empathy. I may not always agree with the methodology of people like djmarkpaul, but I fucking promise you its heads like him/her that dissent, who are responsible for any significant social change and NOT people who would rather character assassinate and offer no real perspective of their own. All actions stem from an ideology. I like, and support the fact that markpaul mentioned that he basically CHALLENGES HIS BELIEFS DAILY. Do you?

No such thing. We all have blood on our hands

YES! I completely agree. But what would seem the healthier course of reaction to this reality? Apathy or critical thinking/mobilization of mass movements of concerned and empathetic peoples?

OK , guy. You win. What was i thinking. You are totally right. You should write pamphlets or something. I'm not trying to change minds...just stating my opinion. If we lived in the time of gestapo , that wouldn't be possible. Ahem* alarmist. The "lol" was in quotes because i laughed when i read your post, and under your username it says "l337".

"just stating my opinion" means nothing, and is a passive, bullshit way of thinking. You think we live in world where we should be so lucky or privileged to be able to share our opinions without any notion of responsibility or accountability? "Opinion" forms action, and all our actions come with a pricetag. Whether its resistance to ongoing oppression or sitting your ass on the fence.

Wow man , you're so affected. Make sure to trade in your soap box for a tinfoil hat. MLB is watching. I seriously "lol'ed" at the emotional stature comment. Pffffft.

Do you know the origins of "soup boxes" and what the relevant history is, and symbolic significance that it has?

If social injustice is this troubling for you , it's going to be a sad existence.

Hmm, from where I stand, Id say its YOUR attitude that’s sad – indifference and ignorance equals social stagnation and fuel for growing attacks on common peoples.

[decypher]

Knowing is one thing, doing is another. There will never be an en masse revolt until the mass is threatened directly, such as with the draft for Vietnam. I believe China has more of a chance of revolution in the near future. With their rise in revolutionary artforms, blogs+sms, and people willing to goto jail to support their cause. They are just waiting to implode.

Sure we don't live in a free world and i guess we can learn from the link above, if you start stalking the bilderberg group your going to get smacked around. Would you be surprised if the mafia smacked you around for sticking your nose in their business?

Yes we do not have ultimate freedom and no i do not agree with data mining. It's been shown in studies that data mining and ethnic profiling do not work. There really is no reason to have these institutions in place in our governments. Why? Because it allows the police to use these tactics to infringe on the general public. So i am not argueing against the injustice you all speak of.

What does all this harping do about liberal rights? All it does is breed hate. Viewing others as cattle is not healthy for your mental. The Canadian government has a hard enough time passing the freakin budget. I can't see any major changes we invision on the roster. They can't even get clean drinking water to native communities. Fighting for your cause is a good thing, but attacking others for not believing does nothing for the cause. You cannot compare these movements to ghandi or martin luther/malcom X. Problems today don't affect the average person directly like they did in India or during the civil rights movement, relatively speaking of course. There's just no room for revolution in Canada between the tim horton and the starbucks take-out windows. Now if we had the government telling us that we can't drink overpriced coffee and donuts, then we have a fucking problem.

Hardly anyone in our age group even wants to vote, damn if we ask them to read allllll the way to the end of the article. I may sound cynical but i'm not. I'm going to find a way to help the collective conscious that is within my personal abilities. Expecting a global revolution against IGOs and other transnational authorities is just unrealistic. Promoting stability in small communities seems more viable.

Unwarrented call and bank account monitoring will not change, no matter how loud i am opposed to it.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Actually you are incorrect ....just because it's not on CBC, CTV, or CNN, doesn't mean it's not happening:

Canadian Military Police Kidnap, Detain, Torture Bilderberg Investigators

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

You can't be serious. Check this out...

McCormick was taken to a secret high security facility where he was brutally interrogated without charge and mentally tortured for six hours. He was accused of wanting to blow up the Brookestreet Hotel, as the interrogators threatened to "cut off his arms" warning him that they also "had his friends" in custody. This is the very definition of psychological torture, the threat of physical harm and dismemberment.

If you find a "Secret High Security Facility" in Ottawa I'll pay you $5.

I've recently been to Ottawa and this has to be one of the biggest loads of Crap I've ever read in my life.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

and so the pissing contest begins.

and markapul the no right to property ownership falls under agenda 21 which pierre tredeau signed when he was prime minister.I dont mean to correct you but the way you threw it in after the previous paragraph made it seem like it was something forthcoming from the "anti terrorist" legislature.

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Wow, sounds like this guy... what's his name? Marx? :p

Marx? Who the hell is this marx guy? ;)

Yeah, I'm not special for sure. Cynical, yeah, you can say that. There's a lot that pisses me off and alone, yup... I'm alone and over 2,000 miles away from anyone that means anything to me. DAMN! YOU SHOULD READ TAROT CARDS! ;)

Where do you live? Why?

The notions of "individuality" are promoted amongst people in Leadership roles. In other words when you recieve orders... there is flexibility allowed in them. The Leader has the options to achieve the set objective in a way that he/she sees fit with the resources at hand. They don't have to follow it letter-for-letter as would say a Tank Commander in the Soviet Forces circa 1955. As for the class I may or may not know about... I'll admit to that. It depends on what class you speak of. I come from the Middle Class. Big deal... most of us do. I'd like to think that as a member of the Armed Forces I'm defending Canada and everyone not just a select few. Excuse me for being an idealistic nationalist.

Individuality in this day and age is promoted to divide and alienate people. Collectives make significant change, individuals are catalysts at best. There is nothing wrong with being self sufficient and confident and independent, but we must aware in such a context mentioned earlier.

The Canadian Forces are not oppressing the citizens of Canada. Take a look around guy... do you see Checkpoints and Soliders everywhere? If anyone is oppressing Citizens in Canada... and from what I've seen. No one here is. It'd be possibly Parliament. From wandering around Toronto and seeing the shitty neighbourhood and violence in the streets here, maybe some oppression is in order.

Poverty/oppression propegate the existance of a break down in social cohesiveness and increased violence or lawlessness NOT the other way around.

And the Canadian military HAS oppressed regular people, and continue to do so in Afghanistan and Haiti, through following the orders of our government and ultimately the minority they represent.

There is nothing wrong with being idealistic or nationalist, except when the respective nation is an imperialist one.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by fable

Marx? Who the hell is this marx guy? ;)

lol

Originally Posted by fable

Where do you live? Why?

Toronto... because I decided to make a change and push my Life forward to better myself as a Person.

Originally Posted by fable

Individuality in this day and age is promoted to divide and alienate people. Collectives make significant change, individuals are catalysts at best. There is nothing wrong with being self sufficient and confident and independent, but we must aware in such a context mentioned earlier.

Collectives are also good for farming Potatoes, making Cars and furthering this Capitalist Society. I'd rather be the Catalyst than the Peasant Farmer any day.

Originally Posted by fable

Poverty/oppression propegate the existance of a break down in social cohesiveness and increased violence or lawlessness NOT the other way around.

Poverty can be over come by having a strong national economy. More jobs = more money for the "masses"... More money for the masses = less Poverty. Seems to me like we should be supporting and strengthening our National productivity and International Trade rather than protesting against it.

Originally Posted by fable

And the Canadian military HAS oppressed regular people, and continue to do so in Afghanistan and Haiti, through following the orders of our government and ultimately the minority they represent.

Jesus Snowboarding Christ. The only People that the Canadian Forces are "opprssing" are the Taliban Forces in Afghanistan and the Rebels in Haiti. If you call Soldiers giving Medical Aid, Building Schools and Infrastructure in Afghanistan "oppression" you're on some pretty heavy Drugs. We're there to help what the Americans fucked up. That we are doing. It doesn't help when there's factions of extremists that don't want us there. We help their Children and Families and they kill our Soldiers. That's quite the Thank you. We could just leave their Nation and let it rot, fall apart and become like Somalia post-American Withdrawal but we're Canada. We're better than that and care about People.

Originally Posted by fable

There is nothing wrong with being idealistic or nationalist, except when the respective nation is an imperialist one.

Canada is imperialist? YES! YES WE ARE! QUICK LET'S INVADE GHANA AND GET US SOME OF THEM COLOURED FOLK I KEEP SEEING ON THE TEL-UH-MA-VISION. 'sides I hear they have a rad Soccer Team. Dude, the closest Canada is to an Imperialist Nation is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_islands

A great many of the tourists who visit the islands are Canadian. Owing to this, the islands' status as a British colony, and historic trade links, some politicians in Canada and the Turks and Caicos have suggested some form of union between the two countries.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

You can't be serious. Check this out...

Torture isn't a laughing matter, even if it's just psychological torture. Being dehydrated to the point of delirium is torture in my books....you want to laugh, I would say you are really out of touch and deserve to go through this yourself...then maybe we'd see if it'd be worth laughing about.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

If you find a "Secret High Security Facility" in Ottawa I'll pay you $5.

I've recently been to Ottawa and this has to be one of the biggest loads of Crap I've ever read in my life.

You've been to Ottawa huh. So the watchdog of the CSE can't get sufficient info, but you have the expert opinion beyond this kind of an insider right?

There are MANY military installations that bar access to the public....there's one in North Van at LSCR as a matter of fact. Again your conjecture doesn't stand up to fact, and it never will.

How mindnumbingly arrogant of you. The bigglest load of crap you ever read was that sentance of yours before you posted it.

As you see it, the worst case scenario of what I am reporting is that I am an alarmist wasting his time.

As I see it, the worst case scenario is that we are being dismantled of our rights of privacy, dissent and self expression and compartmentalizing the psyche of the human and the institutions of our society to a world wide caste system with an unstoppable gestapo. Granted we aren't there just yet, but I have a sense of history, I can back up my claims based on the comparison of similar events in history.

All you're doing is repeating the same kind of arogant political rhetoric one could expect from German citizen's pledging allegiance to the Nazi party, and I am not saying that for effect...it's really what you are doing.

A small smidgen of proof of this is you will probably be arrogant enough to laugh at this even though it's a matter of life and death. You'll believe that there aren't warcrimes being commited by the Canadian military as ALL military's do in WAR (here is where I believe no one is innocent); and you'll go on believing whatever makes your hard in the pants because you are a patriot and we simply must take over all those stupid 3rd world countries and pave a parking lot and mall in all their town squares.

If you had the faintest idea of the laws of physics, you'd know 9/11 was an inside job. If you had the faintest idea of the Taliban, you'd know the CIA funded and trained the whole lot of them to fight against Iran.

You are completely out to lunch on this, and all you have is conjecture, so leave this thread alone since you will only be verbally ejaculating since you aren't obviously interested in making ANY counter points.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

and so the pissing contest begins.

and markapul the no right to property ownership falls under agenda 21 which pierre tredeau signed when he was prime minister.I dont mean to correct you but the way you threw it in after the previous paragraph made it seem like it was something forthcoming from the "anti terrorist" legislature.

Yes miss I know quite a bit about the UN depopulation agenda/agenda 21. It may have seemed implyed, but it really was a seperate question...the agenda is being given an extra boost with the new rise of anti-terrorist legislation though, but that's not what I was getting at. It was about the earlier point in the thread, the one about people that discourage dissent usually being quite ignorant from the laws of the land. Atleast you're not when it comes to this though.... *clapclapclap*

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Torture isn't a laughing matter, even if it's just psychological torture. Being dehydrated to the point of delirium is torture in my books....you want to laugh, I would say you are really out of touch and deserve to go through this yourself...then maybe we'd see if it'd be worth laughing about.

Torture is no laughing matter. Agreed. But seriously, if a group of "Military Police" came in out of nowhere, swept up these poor individuals odd the Street, there'd be something in the News about it. Wether it be a Police Incident or Sting of some kind. I've heard nothing here in Toronto or from my Friends in Ottawa. This is just some more alarmist propaganda. prisonplanet.com? Give me a break guy.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

You've been to Ottawa huh. So the watchdog of the CSE can't get sufficient info, but you have the expert opinion beyond this kind of an insider right?

What makes these people that wrote the articles an expert?

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

There are MANY military installations that bar access to the public....there's one in North Van at LSCR as a matter of fact.

Gee! REALLY?! Who'd've thought they'd let any normal Joe wander on to a Military Installation? Ever been to CFB Comox? CFB Shearwater? CFB Esquimalt or Naden? Exactly.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

As you see it, the worst case scenario of what I am reporting is that I am an alarmist wasting his time.

You are.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

As I see it, the worst case scenario is that we are being dismantled of our rights of privacy, dissent and self expression and compartmentalizing the psyche of the human and the institutions of our society to a world wide caste system with an unstoppable gestapo. Granted we aren't there just yet, but I have a sense of history, I can back up my claims based on the comparison of similar events in history.

Have you taken your Medication today? What do you have to hide? You planning something? A REVOLUTION OF THE PROLETARIAT MASSES PERHAPS?! Is your Bomb Shelter stocked with enough provisions? 'cause you should head down there pretty quickly... do you hear that? It's Global Warming... that's your biggest threat to your personal safety. Not some Government Beauracracy listening into your dirty calls to your Girlfriend. You're in a caste wether you like it or not. Always will be. It's called Human Nature.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

All you're doing is repeating the same kind of arogant political rhetoric one could expect from German citizen's pledging allegiance to the Nazi party, and I am not saying that for effect...it's really what you are doing.

Ummm or not. Canada is so far from the totalitarian state of the Third Reich.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

A small smidgen of proof of this is you will probably be arrogant enough to laugh at this even though it's a matter of life and death. You'll believe that there aren't warcrimes being commited by the Canadian military as ALL military's do in WAR (here is where I believe no one is innocent); and you'll go on believing whatever makes your hard in the pants because you are a patriot and we simply must take over all those stupid 3rd world countries and pave a parking lot and mall in all their town squares.

History is written by the Victors. Notice how the definition of a War Crime was defined as everything that Nazi Germany did? And how conveniently the Allies never looked into their own matters. War is hell. Deal with it. It happens. War isn't going away anytime soon. The ends justify the means. If you have to sacrifice one soul to save a thousand... I say do it. I'm not for taking over Third World Countries. What makes you think that? I'm for the rebuilding and support of them. My prior volunteer work with the International Red Cross Youth Global Affairs Program speaks to that.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

If you had the faintest idea of the laws of physics, you'd know 9/11 was an inside job. If you had the faintest idea of the Taliban, you'd know the CIA funded and trained the whole lot of them to fight against Iran.

Why did you bring this up? This doesn't involve the Ottawa issue? BUZZZZ THANKS.

P.S. Took a Summer Semester of Aerospace Engineering and I'm a Pilot. And watched those Documentaries so amazingly I agree with you on something.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

You are completely out to lunch on this, and all you have is conjecture, so leave this thread alone since you will only be verbally ejaculating since you aren't obviously interested in making ANY counter points.

Lunch is an excellent idea actually! Thanks! :)

My counterpoint is this. Once again you small group of conspirational whackos come onto a place where people aren't that interested in the first place. You've got your own Forums for it. Keep it there maybe?

Besides, like I said before. I try to keep my beliefs and thoughts to myself unless asked. Even then I make an effort to restrain. But when it comes to attacks upon the depth of my moral fibre. I start to get pissed.

[esoter1c]

Lunch is an excellent idea actually! Thanks! :)

GRILLED CHEESE TIME.

[mapleleaf4ever]

^ Not a bad idea!

Hmmm... time to dig through the Fridge.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Yes miss I know quite a bit about the UN depopulation agenda/agenda 21. It may have seemed implyed, but it really was a seperate question...the agenda is being given an extra boost with the new rise of anti-terrorist legislation though, but that's not what I was getting at. It was about the earlier point in the thread, the one about people that discourage dissent usually being quite ignorant from the laws of the land. Atleast you're not when it comes to this though.... *clapclapclap*

no need to patronize me jerk wad,i wasnt being aggressive with my approach why greet me with the same?

[fable]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

no need to patronize me jerk wad,i wasnt being aggressive with my approach why greet me with the same?

er, i dont think he was actaully trying to be patronizing? Although the "clapclapclap" was not neccesary.

ez

[fable]

Collectives are also good for farming Potatoes, making Cars and furthering this Capitalist Society. I'd rather be the Catalyst than the Peasant Farmer any day.

That’s great, but Im talking about collectives or movements that promote a need for organized radical social change. Most "catalysts" have actually come from peasant classes, asides from a few exceptions.

Poverty can be over come by having a strong national economy. More jobs = more money for the "masses"... More money for the masses = less Poverty. Seems to me like we should be supporting and strengthening our National productivity and International Trade rather than protesting against it.

That’s a tad simplistic and naive. What "national" economy are you talking about? When people in this country makes references to such, is usually has nothing to do with oppressed communities, and in fact drive said oppression.

Jesus Snowboarding Christ. The only People that the Canadian Forces are "opprssing" are the Taliban Forces in Afghanistan and the Rebels in Haiti. If you call Soldiers giving Medical Aid, Building Schools and Infrastructure in Afghanistan "oppression" you're on some pretty heavy Drugs. We're there to help what the Americans fucked up. That we are doing. It doesn't help when there's factions of extremists that don't want us there. We help their Children and Families and they kill our Soldiers. That's quite the Thank you. We could just leave their Nation and let it rot, fall apart and become like Somalia post-American Withdrawal but we're Canada. We're better than that and care about People.

All you're doing is feeding me what the mainstream media does 24/7. They do it much better so please don’t quit your day job. The US and Canada have done an effective job on painting any Afghan citizen, or any citizen of a sovereign nation as an extremist, fundamentalist, or all terrorist if they dissent. Considering that ALL wars have left the native population in a state of despair, hyper-poverty, and lawlessness, this war isn’t any different. What I don’t understand is how you still seem to think we are doing anything positive in Afghanistan when we understand:

-Canada’s colonialist past
-Canada’s oppression of Aboriginal, impoverished, immigrant and refugee populations
-Canada’s negative environment impact on foreign nations as a result of the worlds most expansive, aggressive and damaging open pit mining industry
-The conduct and impact of Canadian military forces in Afghanistan, and Haiti
-Canadian governments declarations that Canada is protecting "Canadian Interests" in Haiti and Afghanistan
-Allowances made for Canadian capitalist ventures in Afghanistan
-Virtual collapse of social infrastructure, rampant poverty, starvation, rapid and severe drop in life expectancy, dismal literacy rate, amidst an increasingly severe military occupation in Afghanistan????
-Announcement from the head of US propped Afghan puppet government that the coalition forces are going to far, and are in fact contributing to the all downfall of a nation???

Don’t forget:

-Increased fear mongering and attacks on middle eastern/Muslim immigrants in Canada
-Ignorance of treaty (its either 6 or 8) in the 6nations debacle
-Canadian security certificates

And never forget

-Komagata Maru
-The Canadian railroad
-"Yellow fever"
-Internment camps for Japanese immigrants
-Oka
-Gustafson Lake
-Skel-kwe-kelt
-Tendanega
-Taltahn
-FLQ
-Burnt Church......

I'll suggest the same thing to you as I did to scarface. Ease up on your allegiance to our government until you read, AND READ UP ALOT!

Canada is imperialist? YES! YES WE ARE! QUICK LET'S INVADE GHANA AND GET US SOME OF THEM COLOURED FOLK I KEEP SEEING ON THE TEL-UH-MA-VISION. 'sides I hear they have a rad Soccer Team. Dude, the closest Canada is to an Imperialist Nation is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_islands

I don’t understand? Is this supposed to be funny or an attempt at making me look like I don’t know what Im talking about? Either way, you've failed. You need to study up on what imperialism actually is, while you research the humanitarian conditions of oppressed peoples in Canada or in nations occupied by Canada. The reference to Ghana is inappropriate and extremely ignorant.

I make it a point of studying the angles and rationale of the capitalist class, Canadian government, international military involvement, and economics both historically and today because its paramount. I suggest you do the same for alternative media, revolutionary movements, grassroots organizations, and objective conditions facing citizens of occupied nations, leftist or radical/socialist leaders, and the impact of capitalist as a whole on third world nations in general. Perhaps then your contribution to any dialogue about respective subjects wouldn’t sound so fucking ignorant, racist and arrogant.

You are not an idealist nationalist, because your opinions or beliefs are contrary to the beliefs and realities amongst largest demographic in this country (oppressed peoples- indigenous, immigrant etc etc) Rather you are a regular citizen who backs and supports a government, and capitalist ruling class that could care less if you, your family and most of your friends lived in adverse, hostile and impoverished conditions.

Your support of the military and government, alongside your admittance of severe cynicism, combined with your need to assert your individuality in this time and age, is reactionary and eventually will be exposed.

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Torture is no laughing matter. Agreed. But seriously, if a group of "Military Police" came in out of nowhere, swept up these poor individuals odd the Street, there'd be something in the News about it. Wether it be a Police Incident or Sting of some kind. I've heard nothing here in Toronto or from my Friends in Ottawa. This is just some more alarmist propaganda. prisonplanet.com? Give me a break guy.

Oh, right! All special military forces always make it a point of being completely transparent and do all their work under the public eye! Are you fucking kidding me? Aperently you and your friends in TO are in the loop when i comes to government/institutional activity that is generally covert and not under scrutiny of most of the population. Can I be your freind? Ill buy you beers!

Have you taken your Medication today? What do you have to hide? You planning something? A REVOLUTION OF THE PROLETARIAT MASSES PERHAPS?! Is your Bomb Shelter stocked with enough provisions? 'cause you should head down there pretty quickly... do you hear that? It's Global Warming... that's your biggest threat to your personal safety. Not some Government Beauracracy listening into your dirty calls to your Girlfriend. You're in a caste wether you like it or not. Always will be. It's called Human Nature.

Being in a caste or class in NOT human nature. Its a product of inequality that came as a result of feudalism, then capitalism.

Ummm or not. Canada is so far from the totalitarian state of the Third Reich.

The number if Indigenous peoples killed in the genocide that culminated in the creation of "Canada" is almost twice the number of Jewish deaths in Nazi Germany.

History is written by the Victors. Notice how the definition of a War Crime was defined as everything that Nazi Germany did? And how conveniently the Allies never looked into their own matters. War is hell. Deal with it. It happens. War isn't going away anytime soon. The ends justify the means. If you have to sacrifice one soul to save a thousand... I say do it. I'm not for taking over Third World Countries. What makes you think that? I'm for the rebuilding and support of them. My prior volunteer work with the International Red Cross Youth Global Affairs Program speaks to that.

Since when did you become a member of a national administration?You're not? So why are talking like you have them over for bbq and poker on sunday nights?

My counterpoint is this. Once again you small group of conspirational whackos come onto a place where people aren't that interested in the first place. You've got your own Forums for it. Keep it there maybe?

Thats not a counterpoint, thats generalization, exclusion and assumption. All based on ignorance of who someone is, why they do what they do, and how.

Besides, like I said before. I try to keep my beliefs and thoughts to myself unless asked. Even then I make an effort to restrain. But when it comes to attacks upon the depth of my moral fibre. I start to get pissed.

Attacks upon the depths of your moral fibre???? People are being bombed, starved, annexed, imprisoned, stolen from, exploitated, shot at, scapegoated, and tortured, for the purpose of profit, and power and you're talking about moral fibre???

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by fable

That’s great, but Im talking about collectives or movements that promote a need for organized radical social change. Most "catalysts" have actually come from peasant classes, asides from a few exceptions.

You seem to have a lot of problems with Canadian Society. We've got it good here. I'd quit bitching about this lovely lifestyle we have.

Originally Posted by fable

That’s a tad simplistic and naive. What "national" economy are you talking about? When people in this country makes references to such, is usually has nothing to do with oppressed communities, and in fact drive said oppression.

By National Economy, I mean Canadian Businesses. From the Mom and Pop Corner Store to Bombardier. If these businesses are permitted to thrive and grow it will do nothing but benefit all of us.

Originally Posted by fable

All you're doing is feeding me what the mainstream media does 24/7. They do it much better so please don’t quit your day job.

Don't worry, I won't. I never took Journalism, hence why they do it better. DURRRRRRRR

Originally Posted by fable

The US and Canada have done an effective job on painting any Afghan citizen, or any citizen of a sovereign nation as an extremist, fundamentalist, or all terrorist if they dissent. Considering that ALL wars have left the native population in a state of despair, hyper-poverty, and lawlessness, this war isn’t any different. What I don’t understand is how you still seem to think we are doing anything positive in Afghanistan when we understand:

-Canada’s colonialist past
-Canada’s oppression of Aboriginal, impoverished, immigrant and refugee populations
-Canada’s negative environment impact on foreign nations as a result of the worlds most expansive, aggressive and damaging open pit mining industry
-The conduct and impact of Canadian military forces in Afghanistan, and Haiti
-Canadian governments declarations that Canada is protecting "Canadian Interests" in Haiti and Afghanistan
-Allowances made for Canadian capitalist ventures in Afghanistan
-Virtual collapse of social infrastructure, rampant poverty, starvation, rapid and severe drop in life expectancy, dismal literacy rate, amidst an increasingly severe military occupation in Afghanistan????
-Announcement from the head of US propped Afghan puppet government that the coalition forces are going to far, and are in fact contributing to the all downfall of a nation???

You bring up the past a lot. Maybe you should look to the future and see that Canada is at least contributing to help the People that aren't shooting at our Countrymen.

Originally Posted by fable

Don’t forget:

-Increased fear mongering and attacks on middle eastern/Muslim immigrants in Canada

You can blame Society and the Media for that, not the Canadian Forces.

Originally Posted by fable

And never forget

-Komagata Maru
-The Canadian railroad
-"Yellow fever"
-Internment camps for Japanese immigrants
-Oka
-Gustafson Lake
-Skel-kwe-kelt
-Tendanega
-Taltahn
-FLQ
-Burnt Church......

All the past. Some People have to accept that it's over and done with. Every Nation has it's black marks. Some have more than others. What's your point? Sure, there's been errors. But I'd like to think that our Society has advanced more than that. History is just that... History. It's there for us to learn from so that we can try and avoid repeating it. I've heard and know the basics about the incidents you mentioned above. Have they happened again? No. I'd say that sums it up.

Originally Posted by fable

I don’t understand? Is this supposed to be funny or an attempt at making me look like I don’t know what Im talking about?

Bang on. Trying to be funny as you need to lighten up guy.

Originally Posted by fable

Either way, you've failed. You need to study up on what imperialism actually is, while you research the humanitarian conditions of oppressed peoples in Canada or in nations occupied by Canada. The reference to Ghana is inappropriate and extremely ignorant.

FUCK! Oppressed People in Canada?! OH MY GOD. Would you rather live in China? North Korea? Dude, those people can talk about oppression. You, as a Citizen and resident of Canada have no basis to.

Originally Posted by fable

Perhaps then your contribution to any dialogue about respective subjects wouldn’t sound so fucking ignorant, racist and arrogant.

Dude, I've participated in some of these organizations. I've read some of the Leftist Literature. And what can I say, there's a reason I'm not in that side of the spectrum. If I come across as ignorant... sure. I can deal with that. There are certain people and things I do ignore. Mainly for my sanity. Racist. Ouch... that cuts me man. I am one of the most non-racist People you will ever meet. I accept everyone for who they are. You may be a reactionary left-wing idealist... but hey, that's your right. I'd still share a Pitcher with you.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Originally Posted by fable

You are not an idealist nationalist, because your opinions or beliefs are contrary to the beliefs and realities amongst largest demographic in this country (oppressed peoples- indigenous, immigrant etc etc)

So you're saying that the majority of Canada is oppressed? Hmmmm... I dunno about that one.

Originally Posted by fable

Rather you are a regular citizen

HOLY SHIT!!!#)(*!*)(!# WHO LET OUT MY DARK DARK SECRET! Go forth! There are many more myteries of the mortal world for you to solve.

Originally Posted by fable

who backs and supports a government, and capitalist ruling class that could care less if you, your family and most of your friends lived in adverse, hostile and impoverished conditions.

Actually, it appears that most of my Family, Friends and myself live not too badly. Wether they care or not? Big deal. As long as all that I care about are still doing fine.

Originally Posted by fable

Your support of the military and government, alongside your admittance of severe cynicism, combined with your need to assert your individuality in this time and age, is reactionary and eventually will be exposed.

Well you just did that didn't you? Feel better? Would you rather I wasn't an individual? Should I be just another one of these "oppressed" People you keep talking about? Or should I just keep on doing what every Person should do; Keep on living, take care of themselves, their Family and Friends?

See? This is why I try to keep my mouth shut and why a select group of People should do the same. I know that you may not agree with what I say. But hey, buddy, look who's in Office! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE! In fact, from what I recall of the Polls... most of Western Canada is on the same Team as me. OUCH... that hurts. Maybe you should move to Newfoundland? Saltspring Island or something?

I'm done with you People. It's not fair when I'm the only one getting attention from you and djmarkpaul. All I need is Mangle to hop in on this "Racist Gangbang" but hey, I'm male and only have two holes so I guess he'll have to wait his turn eh?

I rarely get into lengthy arguments online. I apologize to everyone here. But there must be something in the Air out here in Toronto.

Once again. My apologies.

P.S. And if any of you motherfuckers EVEN REFERENCES AT ME AND NAZISM I will personally upon my return to Vancouver for a visit make them experience some displeasure. You can put at least $20 on it. I'm not violent but I do take great offence at things like that.

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

You seem to have a lot of problems with Canadian Society. We've got it good here. I'd quit bitching about this lovely lifestyle we have.

Bitching? From where I come from "bitching" is associated with subjects like your significant other having a snoring problem, or you get a wack haircut. Talking about significant social problems that come as result of government and/or capitalism is not.

By National Economy, I mean Canadian Businesses. From the Mom and Pop Corner Store to Bombardier. If these businesses are permitted to thrive and grow it will do nothing but benefit all of us.

I would consider this except for the fact that you’re average "mom and pop shop" and a company like "bombardiers" exist in completely difference conditions despite both working for profit. Asides from this, a company like Bombardier and SNC-Lavelin are also far from each other on the spectrum.

Don't worry, I won't. I never took Journalism, hence why they do it better.

I wasn’t referring to your style; I was referring your ability to ignore context and objective conditions outside your family and friends.

You bring up the past a lot. Maybe you should look to the future and see that Canada is at least contributing to help the People that aren't shooting at our Countrymen.

Fuck mate, you need to stop talking and start researching. Do I sound like I only live in the past? Or do I consistently attach precedent to current issues, including ideology as well as practice? Please note the latter is how one actually critically assess their environment.

You can blame Society and the Media for that, not the Canadian Forces.

You usage of "society" makes this statement extremely irrelevant. "Society" as in the masses, are creatures of their environment. Unless someone has the ability to alter their environment, they are never "free" In our capitalist system we DO NOT have this ability. The ability to consume has nothing to do with freedom or a humanitarian quality of life.

All the past. Some People have to accept that it's over and done with. Every Nation has it's black marks. Some have more than others. What's your point? Sure, there's been errors. But I'd like to think that our Society has advanced more than that. History is just that... History. It's there for us to learn from so that we can try and avoid repeating it. I've heard and know the basics about the incidents you mentioned above. Have they happened again? No. I'd say that sums it up.

I want to live in your life for a day or two! It must be nice to be so oblivious to things around you? Until you start basing you assessments on History/precedent + current/contemporary augmented by ideology and objective conditions, most of your comments in this arena will be narrow minded, prejudiced and lacking.

Bang on. Trying to be funny as you need to lighten up guy.

Hey GUY if you want me to lighten up then lets discuss light things. We are not currently discussing trivial or lighthearted subjects are we?

FUCK! Oppressed People in Canada?! OH MY GOD. Would you rather live in China? North Korea? Dude, those people can talk about oppression. You, as a Citizen and resident of Canada have no basis to.

Hmmm, unless you know my life story, then you wouldn’t be able to assume that would you? Oppression does not relate to national borders, rather classes. A "Canadian" fight for human rights supports foreign fights. I have more in common with poor people in Afghanistan than some mp, MLA, minister, police officer, csis agent, premier or prime minister of Canada.

But back to the living in the past comment. I’ve mentioned at least 50 or so instances of gross oppression this country since I’ve been to this board. Most of which in the last 50 years. Your perception of what is past and present is based only on our rather insignificant short lifespan. Im talking across generations mate. Im also pretty sure that you have not done any in-depth research in any of the instances I have put forth. Of course it doesn’t really mean anything if you haven’t, but then your words don’t really carry much weight past a young middle class Caucasian male who either denies surrounding environments or is just oblivious to them. Which category do you fit in?

Dude, I've participated in some of these organizations. I've read some of the Leftist Literature. And what can I say, there's a reason I'm not in that side of the spectrum. If I come across as ignorant... sure. I can deal with that. There are certain people and things I do ignore. Mainly for my sanity.

I can understand behaviors in the interest of personal "survival" but from your words so far, id say you don’t need to worry about your "sanity" At the same time I don’t think you've ever really had to worry about eating, having a roof over your head, being discriminated against (structurally) or faced an orchestrated and consistent campaign in order to use you as a scapegoat either? Or have you? Im interested to know?

Please note, my assessment of you and my assumption of your lack of experiences is NOT a value judgment. BUT I point it out because there is a significant impact of this info on your ability to formulate opinion.

Racist. Ouch... that cuts me man. I am one of the most non-racist People you will ever meet. I accept everyone for who they are. You may be a reactionary left-wing idealist... but hey, that's your right. I'd still share a Pitcher with you.

Do you know what "reactionary" means? Im sorry if I sounded like I was calling YOU a racist, I did not intend to do that. But the ideology or misinformation you believe is most definitely racist, in that is assumes condition for specific ethnic communities are what they are not, both domestically and internationally. But I would share a pitcher with you too (but I don’t drink)

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

That would be stupid. Why die for something you don’t believe in? What does that achieve except a body? We aren’t formulating the plot for Independence Day II so save the patriotic/patronizing garbage. We are trying to make people aware, so they can make informed decisions and hopefully join the struggle for human rights and equality. I could care less about someone’s right to an opinion. Im not stopping anyone anywhere. But I will fucking dissect it, dismantle it and expose it if I believe it benefits an oppressive structure or individual.

So you're saying that the majority of Canada is oppressed? Hmmmm... I dunno about that one.

The government, law enforcement, intelligence, military, and top level executives in large corporations makes a very small contingent of our national population.

The largest oppressed population includes immigrants, refugees, Indigenous peoples, impoverished, mentally challenged, active addicts/recovering addicts>both men, women and students. I make this group because these sub groups are the most directly effected.

The middle class is eroding at an exceptional rate. Whatever remaining perception of such a vast demographic is simply illusion. But you don’t have to take my word for it. Just remember to investigate (if you are not keeping it up) in as little as the next 10 years. Polarization, increased military invasion/occupation, and damage to the environment will qualify this belief that garners increasing support daily.

HOLY SHIT!!!#)(*!*)(!# WHO LET OUT MY DARK DARK SECRET! Go forth! There are many more myteries of the mortal world for you to solve.

er, yeah, sure.

Actually, it appears that most of my Family, Friends and myself live not too badly. Wether they care or not? Big deal. As long as all that I care about are still doing fine.

Sort of redundant in light of the fact that you already told me you're part of the "middle class"

Well you just did that didn't you? Feel better? Would you rather I wasn't an individual? Should I be just another one of these "oppressed" People you keep talking about? Or should I just keep on doing what every Person should do; Keep on living, take care of themselves, their Family and Friends?

I told you specifically that independence and such is a good thing. BUT change comes from united movements. If you place yourself outside of this context simply to be an individual then you are just like any self involved, self interested, and plain selfish stereotypical corporate ceo.

See? This is why I try to keep my mouth shut and why a select group of People should do the same. I know that you may not agree with what I say. But hey, buddy, look who's in Office! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE! In fact, from what I recall of the Polls... most of Western Canada is on the same Team as me. OUCH... that hurts. Maybe you should move to Newfoundland? Saltspring Island or something?

Hehe, Im not moving anywhere. And really this was the only paragraph you should have written, it would have saved you a lot of time.

I'm done with you People. It's not fair when I'm the only one getting attention from you and djmarkpaul. All I need is Mangle to hop in on this "Racist Gangbang" but hey, I'm male and only have two holes so I guess he'll have to wait his turn eh?

ITS NOT FAIR!?!?!?! HAHAHAHA! Hey, your preaching to the choir when you talk about being ganged up on. You think Im a stranger to this myself? What about Mangle? As for djmarkpaul, he was getting gang scrutinized far before I came to these parts. SO get a grip homie.

I rarely get into lengthy arguments online. I apologize to everyone here. But there must be something in the Air out here in Toronto.

If your patriotic, nationalist, middle class ass got into more "arguments" you would probably be a lot more informed. At the very least not so glib, or narrow minded.

P.S. And if any of you motherfuckers EVEN REFERENCES AT ME AND NAZISM I will personally upon my return to Vancouver for a visit make them experience some displeasure. You can put at least $20 on it. I'm not violent but I do take great offence at things like that.

Settle down there tiger. I never called you a Nazi, nor do I think anyone else did. You are obviously a solid dude, who is genuine, and anything but a racist. But as for being fucked up, confused, and oblivious.........

ez;)

[mapleleaf4ever]

We can agree to disagree. lol

[tiedye]

fuck that. pistols at high noon!

[mapleleaf4ever]

I think I'd win that one.

I can shoot a 92% at 50 Yards with a 9mm Pistol and 90% with a .308 Rifle at 300 Yards. lol

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

I think I'd win that one.

I can shoot a 92% at 50 Yards with a 9mm Pistol and 90% with a .308 Rifle at 300 Yards. lol

Im old, I like a .303

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

We can agree to disagree. lol

Nope. But I do like that tiger photo!

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Torture is no laughing matter. Agreed. But seriously, if a group of "Military Police" came in out of nowhere, swept up these poor individuals odd the Street, there'd be something in the News about it.

*ahem*

Bwahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!

Okay_THAT_was funny. What's funnier is you probably actually believe that. The mainstream media is owned buddy, people pay top dollar to put on news and to keep it off. You obviously have no idea how propaganda works in a police state. Now I am not saying Canada is a full on police state, but with RCMP in our military, add campaigns on the evening news, and now warrent needed to spy on it's citizens, we are well on our way. Any counter point to that?

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Wether it be a Police Incident or Sting of some kind. I've heard nothing here in Toronto or from my Friends in Ottawa. This is just some more alarmist propaganda. prisonplanet.com? Give me a break guy.

Actually, you could bother to take matters into your own hands and track the guy down since his FULL NAME was posted in the article, but ofcourse it's only propaganda when it isn't coming from one the your trusted Asper familiy leads.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

What makes these people that wrote the articles an expert?

I never claimed they were. Infact, I disagree with 70% of the reporting that goes on Infowars or Prisonplanet because of it's alarmist nature. Alex Jones is a spazz, and so are his articles. If you have the patience to extract the intel within them though, it can stand alone. Obviously you are too impulsive for that.

There are real investigative journalists out there you know, granted, some are paranoid, doesn't mean you have to be.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Gee! REALLY?! Who'd've thought they'd let any normal Joe wander on to a Military Installation? Ever been to CFB Comox? CFB Shearwater? CFB Esquimalt or Naden? Exactly.

I've been to my fair share of military installations. You really don't know who you're talking to.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Have you taken your Medication today? What do you have to hide? You planning something? A REVOLUTION OF THE PROLETARIAT MASSES PERHAPS?! Is your Bomb Shelter stocked with enough provisions? 'cause you should head down there pretty quickly... do you hear that? It's Global Warming... that's your biggest threat to your personal safety. Not some Government Beauracracy listening into your dirty calls to your Girlfriend. You're in a caste wether you like it or not. Always will be. It's called Human Nature.

I was waiting for the meds ad hominem. It's funny when that's all you got, calling me out saying I need meds or a tin foil hat instead of attacking the base of the article. You think you're a realist, but you are just a disenfranchised warmonger.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Ummm or not. Canada is so far from the totalitarian state of the Third Reich.

Do you have contacts in CSIS, do you know what kind of intel they can pull out on ANYONE with a Canadain citizenship...record or not?

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

History is written by the Victors. Notice how the definition of a War Crime was defined as everything that Nazi Germany did? And how conveniently the Allies never looked into their own matters. War is hell. Deal with it. It happens. War isn't going away anytime soon. The ends justify the means. If you have to sacrifice one soul to save a thousand... I say do it. I'm not for taking over Third World Countries. What makes you think that? I'm for the rebuilding and support of them. My prior volunteer work with the International Red Cross Youth Global Affairs Program speaks to that.

You were in an institutionalized bubble of bureaucratic rhetoric...but hey, if you think that gives you credibility. What was the biggest disagreement you had with the group might I ask?

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Why did you bring this up? This doesn't involve the Ottawa issue? BUZZZZ THANKS.

It shows that you are arrogant and feel your personal experience and opinion over-rides a thorough investigation.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

My counterpoint is this. Once again you small group of conspirational whackos come onto a place where people aren't that interested in the first place. You've got your own Forums for it. Keep it there maybe?

Thing is there is no abundant conspiracy theory here, other than your own. The main article there is no theorizing really, and well, the infowars article, it's up to you to investigate it to make that claim, otherwise it's only you who is theorizing. I know people that were in Ottawa when it happened, but I don't need to proove that to you.

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Besides, like I said before. I try to keep my beliefs and thoughts to myself unless asked. Even then I make an effort to restrain. But when it comes to attacks upon the depth of my moral fibre. I start to get pissed.

Well when you go to justify occupying foreign territories when our own legislation is a mess, you come off very ignorant, and as a war monger.

You really think there are threats outside of this country greater then within it that makes sense to face?

Consensus reports that NK has no ICBM capabiility -
their last test of a medium range vehicle was a
failure (a lashed together buncha scuds) - lashin
gtogether more scuds aint gonna cut it. Also US
military reports their missile shield has not even had
ONE successfull test, even with total target
coodinates knowledge.

This is a virtual war. NK threatens with fake
misslies, US counters we'll shoot yer fake birds down
with our fake gun. Iran has NO bomb capabilty, and US
WON'T invade or shoot (can't, no troops left....did you
leave a door open, theres an awful draft coming in).

Canada is just there along for the ride...its de-stabalizing,
Afghanistan is in a mess now with checkpoints everywhere,
this is about the take over of culture and resources.

Jeeezuss, get a fricking grip...and quit doing
the propagandists job for them....

REAL WAR IS BAD FOR BUSINESS!

If this was about stabalizing a Country from political upheavel, I can list a 100 inidents where the US or Canada could have stepped in, but didn't...don't quit your day job.

LUNCH TIME!

PS

cool tiger pic

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

no need to patronize me jerk wad,i wasnt being aggressive with my approach why greet me with the same?

Actually I was agreeing with you, not patronizing you...you're just a spazz...but if you insist:

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

The mainstream media is owned buddy, people pay top dollar to put on news and to keep it off. You obviously have no idea how propaganda works in a police state. Now I am not saying Canada is a full on police state, but with RCMP in our military, ad campaigns on the evening news, and now warrant needed to spy on it's citizens, we are well on our way. Any counter point to that?

The RCMP and the Military are separate Organizations. When it comes to the enforcement of the Criminal Code of Canada it is handled by the Military Police. Not the RCMP. Chances are if these People were picked up in such a spectacular manner there would have been a little more heard from other People other than this website that you linked to. C'mon, even average citizens would be talking about it. I know when I see a bunch of Police Officers outside a Building or grabbing them off the Street I'm going to definetly talk to someone about it, or hell even post it on here to see if anyone else heard about it. I'd have to disagree about us being well on our way to being a Police State. If you can have this argument and not be rounded up and tortured for your possible involvement in an anti-government conspiracy I'd say we have a long way to go. Sleep well tonight young man, the Gestapo isn't coming for you.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Actually, you could bother to take matters into your own hands and track the guy down since his FULL NAME was posted in the article, but ofcourse it's only propaganda when it isn't coming from one the your trusted Asper familiy leads.

But that begs the question... why would I really care? I've got much more important things to do than track down some Guy that obviously has some pretty crazy ideas about the Government being after him. Who knows, maybe he was involved in a possible conspiracy? The Government wouldn't go after some random regular joe, he must have done something to piss someone off.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

I never claimed they were. Infact, I disagree with 70% of the reporting that goes on Infowars or Prisonplanet because of it's alarmist nature. Alex Jones is a spazz, and so are his articles.

Then why not reference better sources?

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

There are real investigative journalists out there you know, granted, some are paranoid, doesn't mean you have to be.

Me Paranoid? I'm not the one worried about Ottawa listening into my Phone as I order Pizza and call my job to see when my Shifts are. I've got nothing to hide. Big fucking deal. Once I have a conspiracy or something to blow up, I'll take things underground. *insert rolling of the eyes here*

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

I've been to my fair share of military installations. You really don't know who you're talking to.

OoOo so have I... want a Cookie? The point of that was to illustrate that any regular Citizen will never have full access to any of those facilities. Access Control and Security Clearances and Guards are there for a reason. Oh yeah, that's not an Alien Spacecraft in the Q at the end of Runway 11/29 in Comox, it's only two CF-18s. I don't really know, but I'm pretty sure you can't be that important if you're debating with me over issues like this on a Raver Website.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

I was waiting for the meds ad hominem. It's funny when that's all you got, calling me out saying I need meds or a tin foil hat instead of attacking the base of the article. You think you're a realist, but you are just a disenfranchised warmonger.

What can I say, conflict makes the World go 'round. It's just sometimes I wonder how some of you People can be so paranoid or critical of your Country when you have all this Freedom. Social Support and are way better of than many other Nations. I'd be happy. Not pissed off. Just because you have to pay Taxes and have the safety of a Police Force and crazed motherfuckers like me defending your Country doesn't mean you have to be paranoid.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Do you have contacts in CSIS, do you know what kind of intel they can pull out on ANYONE with a Canadain citizenship...record or not?

You'd be surprised. Yes, it's called a SIN Number. You can get an amazing amount of information from them. Hell if they pulled mine, I bet they'd have a huge folder of what I've done in the past. In fact, I know that I've been checked upon many times as I've been through numerous Background Checks and Security Clearances.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

You were in an institutionalized bubble of bureaucratic rhetoric...but hey, if you think that gives you credibility. What was the biggest disagreement you had with the group might I ask?

I never had a disagreement with them. They were doing excellent work... their pushing through of the Global Anti-Personnel Mine Ban was one project that I myself spent a lot of time helping out on. In fact if I could have a chance to Volunteer with them again here in Ontario I would.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

It shows that you are arrogant and feel your personal experience and opinion over-rides a thorough investigation.

Actually, bringing up Iraq and other issues when we're talking about people being "captured and tortured in Ottawa" is just distracting from the point. Ottawa and Baghdad are two different issues.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Thing is there is no abundant conspiracy theory here, other than your own. The main article there is no theorizing really, and well, the infowars article, it's up to you to investigate it to make that claim, otherwise it's only you who is theorizing. I know people that were in Ottawa when it happened, but I don't need to proove that to you.

You missed the Boat on that one didn't you? Basically I said... why is it only about 3 or 4 of you Guys that post the same kind of Boards all the time here? Don't you have another e-Sandbox to do that in? I know I'm not the only one that they wear on.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Well when you go to justify occupying foreign territories when our own legislation is a mess, you come off very ignorant, and as a war monger.

'cause you know, we're fighting tons of Wars. Yeah... our Troops are streaming to the fronts and our national treasury is being bled dry. What? OH! That's the United States. What's the big mess with our Legislation? You're pissed about the GST? The Gun Registry? The raising of the age of Consent?

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

You really think there are threats outside of this country greater then within it that makes sense to face?

Consensus reports that NK has no ICBM capabiility -
their last test of a medium range vehicle was a
failure (a lashed together buncha scuds) - lashing together more scuds aint gonna cut it. Also US military reports their missile shield has not even had
ONE successfull test, even with total target
coodinates knowledge.

This is a virtual war. NK threatens with fake
misslies, US counters we'll shoot yer fake birds down
with our fake gun. Iran has NO bomb capabilty, and US
WON'T invade or shoot (can't, no troops left....did you
leave a door open, theres an awful draft coming in).

I don't feel that Canada is under any threat of any imminence. I've heard what you said above... I can say, I'm happy to be Canadian and not American. WOO HA!

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Canada is just there along for the ride...its de-stabalizing, Afghanistan is in a mess now with checkpoints everywhere,
this is about the take over of culture and resources.

It's still better off than it was. Would you rather those people went back to the way they were before? Checkpoints are there because People other than the regular citizenry are trying to kill Canadians and other allied Soldiers that are trying to help the People there.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

REAL WAR IS BAD FOR BUSINESS!

If War was bad for Business how come World War 2 made the United States into an economic powerhouse? It's proven that War is only a temporary boost to the economy.

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

If this was about stabalizing a Country from political upheavel, I can list a 100 inidents where the US or Canada could have stepped in, but didn't...don't quit your day job.

Again, why would I quit my day job? You can't be everywhere at once, it's call prioritizing, you deal with matters of the most important first. If there's 3 "terrorists" with Hand Grenades and a large group of Rebels threatening a Refugee Camp which would you take out first? The Rebels of course. Sure that means a couple People might die from the 3 guys, but you'll save more by dealing with the other situation.

[qutoe=djmarkpaul]LUNCH TIME![/quote]Three hours ahead of you! ;)

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

cool tiger pic

Yeah, I thought so too.