What are we teaching our children?!

[r a m a z e]

lol prussian blue there cd is gunna flop..

[fable]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

Wow

You could turn a thread on Cow leather into a arab/Jew Issue, couldn't you?

"Arab/jew issue?" No, not at all.

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

Oddly enough I never did listen to the audio commentary nor did I listen to Mangle. It was just more fun to bug Mangle.

Wow, ignorant and childish. A double threat girl.

Originally Posted by Mangle

Wow, ignorant and childish. A double threat girl.

Childish maybe....

Hardly ignorant.

Less is more Mangle, and you can only listen so much to the person atop his soapbox before it gets tired.

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

Less is more Mangle, and you can only listen so much to the person atop his soapbox before it gets tired.

But you just admitted you didn't listen at all. Is it so hard to click one little button on one little page and find out why VICE's editors are racists? I'm sure if any of you actually did, you wouldn't be so fast to defend it.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Avana

Childish maybe....

Hardly ignorant.

Less is more Mangle, and you can only listen so much to the person atop his soapbox before it gets tired.

Less is more? In the given context, what you mean?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Avana

They were initially from California.....

And they moved to Montana, which is Mid-west. :S

considering Montana is underneath Alberta, I doubt it'd be considered mid-west. More like North West.

Originally Posted by fable

Less is more? In the given context, what you mean?

I will make that a little more verbose so that you can relate....

Making a profound statement with fewer words is going to have a better effect than a long winded and wordy response. How many times do you see people say on here that they don't want to read all that you just typed?

I often see the points you are trying to make, you just take a really long time to get there, you points would be better received in one or two sentence responses.

Originally Posted by Alex

considering Montana is underneath Alberta, I doubt it'd be considered mid-west. More like North West.

We are both wrong, it is a Rocky Mountain State. But thanks for trying to show me up. :)

Originally Posted by Mangle

But you just admitted you didn't listen at all. Is it so hard to click one little button on one little page and find out why VICE's editors are racists? I'm sure if any of you actually did, you wouldn't be so fast to defend it.

I am not going into the whole thing about Vice with you again.

It is like stating Dateline is also a racist gangbang cause they allowed the girls to voice their opinion.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Avana

I will make that a little more verbose so that you can relate....

Making a profound statement with fewer words is going to have a better effect than a long winded and wordy response. How many times do you see people say on here that they don't want to read all that you just typed?

I often see the points you are trying to make, you just take a really long time to get there, you points would be better received in one or two sentence responses.

one half of me thought:

"Who are you kidding? 16 page rants about a promoter not paying a dj, huge threads about a porta potty being tipped over, manifestos about if somebody should identify as being bisexual or not, critical analysis on how to put on lipstick, and somehow Im supposed to take you seriously when your advice is to discuss matters like war and oppression across the world in one sentence?" I didnt realize the depth and impact of capitalist/imperialist agression on third world nations could be sufficiently described in phrases like "war is bad" or "capitalism is the devil"

the other half of me thought:

"Very true. It is good to give people clear accounts of deep routed core issues, but there is always the risk of losing people if you throw down too much history and/or details"

Ill stuff the ego, and go with thought #2

Originally Posted by fable

one half of me thought:

"Who are you kidding? 16 page rants about a promoter not paying a dj, huge threads about a porta potty being tipped over, manifestos about if somebody should identify as being bisexual or not, critical analysis on how to put on lipstick, and somehow Im supposed to take you seriously when your advice is to discuss matters like war and oppression across the world in one sentence?" I didnt realize the depth and impact of capitalist/imperialist agression on third world nations could be sufficiently described in phrases like "war is bad" or "capitalism is the devil"

the other half of me thought:

"Very true. It is good to give people clear accounts of deep routed core issues, but there is always the risk of losing people if you throw down too much history and/or details"

Ill stuff the ego, and go with thought #2

Fable you can't see the forest for the trees.

You are talking about a board where to the majority of the people, the only current events that matter is who screwed who in the rave scene.

I am not saying what you have to say isn't important, or doesn't have meaning, it is just the wrong audience. Even those that have something to say on these topics find your long windedness tiresome. I am not debating the topics, just stating that if you wanted to possibly keep the attention of those here, keep it short.

ps - less is more applies to make up too. :p

pps - just because I am not vocal about my views on religion and politics and war doesn't mean I don't have them. They are my views, and I don't want to defend them to anyone, nor should I have to.

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

I am not going into the whole thing about Vice with you again.

You admitted that you never did in the first place.

Originally Posted by Avana

It is like stating Dateline is also a racist gangbang cause they allowed the girls to voice their opinion.

Only if those girls use the words "pakis" and "chinks" as if those were perfectly reasonable words to say in public. Remember, it's the staff of VICE who said that, not Prussian Blue. You'd know that if you listened to it.

Originally Posted by Mangle

You admitted that you never did in the first place.
Only if those girls use the words "pakis" and "chinks" as if those were perfectly reasonable words to say in public. Remember, it's the staff of VICE who said that, not Prussian Blue. You'd know that if you listened to it.

Does this mean there is an audio commentary?

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

Does this mean there is an audio commentary?

Moron.

Originally Posted by Mangle

Moron.

You know Mangle, the more you feed into the joke, the funnier it gets.

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

You know Mangle, the more you feed into the joke, the funnier it gets.

No, the more racist and ignorant you appear. The only joke here is you.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Avana

Fable you can't see the forest for the trees.

You are talking about a board where to the majority of the people, the only current events that matter is who screwed who in the rave scene.

I am not saying what you have to say isn't important, or doesn't have meaning, it is just the wrong audience. Even those that have something to say on these topics find your long windedness tiresome. I am not debating the topics, just stating that if you wanted to possibly keep the attention of those here, keep it short.

ps - less is more applies to make up too. :p

pps - just because I am not vocal about my views on religion and politics and war doesn't mean I don't have them. They are my views, and I don't want to defend them to anyone, nor should I have to.

________________________________________ _______________________

Coles Notes: (for the “movers and shakers” who have no time for my “long windedness” but all the time to talk about shit(sometimes even literally)

_Your simple assessments on audience are based on a small fraction of opinion and personal judgment that is faulty and incomplete

_Your assessment on matters of methodology is definitely relevant (as stated before) but in the end only the subject of whatever is being discussed determines ones approach in speaking about said subject

_Being muted or having your voice suppressed by outside influence is oppression, muting yourself or not sharing your thoughts simply because "you don’t want to" and then having to put that forth as reasoning for whatever reason is simply laziness

Full Version:
_The analogy you used is phrased wrong, and used in the wrong context.

_I believe any audience is a good audience. As for the most part Im taking about issues that effect all humans, and last time I checked, this board is full of such. BUT as I grow, and learn, I understand that not every APPROACH is a good one. So with saying that, your point referring to such is definitely a relevant one.

_Your last paragraph, is common, expected, and completely exposes the reality, that you have no real comprehension about why politics need to be discussed. It has nothing to do with winning, or defending opinion, or feeling smart, and everything to do with the true definition of the word and its purpose - that being spreading awareness, and enabling dialogue amongst those in the population that are sensitive or empathetic enough to get involved in some shape or form in a definitive struggle for human rights. Real human rights, the kind of which are denied to millions upon millions of people everyday.

_The last statement being said, you have all the right, to care or not, discuss or not. But do not transfer your inability, or unwillingness to get involved in any such fashion onto my methodology. If you want to critique my methodology then base it on relevant context and precedent. Basing it on, what you think or don’t think personally means nothing to me, or any movement for that matter - such critique is unprincipled, and irrelevant.

_Lastly, if one assumes their surrounding community is nothing but a bunch of screwed up ravers or partygoers, then one will never play a part or be a part of said community ever elevating itself beyond shallow judgment. People on this board are young women and men, people of ethnic backgrounds, students, working class people and understanding such, one then must understand that said community, is not simply what you may define themselves as, but rather a slice of a larger demographic, in which matters of war, oppression, poverty, and prejudice impact everyday.

[Silverwinged]

Originally Posted by Mangle

No, the more racist and ignorant you appear. The only joke here is you.

shes not a racist, hubby.
she hates everyone equally AND she has one black friend and one chinese friend.
so it all evens out in the long run.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Mangle

No, the more racist and ignorant you appear. The only joke here is you.

She doesn’t get it, and neither do you get her.

To her: it’s a joke, like most things you've discussed. One cannot change ones assessment of said subject without actually understanding the reality or nature of said subject. Until avana or anyone else for that matter does, then they will continue to respond in the same way.

To you: its racism, disgusting writing, and a general level of disgusting apathy. All, which I personally agree with. But an intelligent person like you needs to get in less useless back and forth with people, and more of sharing your editorial prose.

(disclaimer) I speak from tons of experience in relation to how one APPROACHES specific dialogue - most of it really fucked up and frustrating. I’ve done my fare share of head butting walls. One thing that’s been ringing with me of late is actually pretty simple:

the only way people will act, is if they feel like it’s in their interest. The only way someone believes something is in their interest, is if they are able to see through all the distraction that surrounds them. The only way that someone can see through all the distraction is if someone exposes it for what it is.

(This is when you have a choice) The ways to expose specific truths is by- picking up a gun, or educating (historically its been a combination of both)

I aint trying to be condescending, just wanted to drop some thoughts on yeah.

ez

[fable]

Originally Posted by Silverwinged

shes not a racist, hubby.
she hates everyone equally AND she has one black friend and one chinese friend.
so it all evens out in the long run.

that was a really stupid thing to say

Originally Posted by fable

She doesn’t get it, and neither do you get her.

I get the point that Mangle is trying to get across. I don't like racism, nor do I condone it. Vice magazine isn't a group of racist writers, but a group of writers that are trying to go for shock value. They reeled Mangle in, hook, line and sinker. His reaction to people, and to the magazine is where the joke lies. Me laughing at that joke, isn't a reflection of my beliefs.

Dateline probably got the same from those girls as Vice did, but Dateline is required to censor it.

I chose not to speak of my politics on the boards because my beliefs would grossly offend others, just like your politics grossly offend me. This is my opinion, and it is my right.

Pointing a finger at me, and saying I am the reason there is hate in the world is typical of both of you. You seem to want someone to blame. Maybe instead of looking to blame someone you should try and find a solution.

Originally Posted by fable

________________________________________ _______________________

Coles Notes: (for the “movers and shakers” who have no time for my “long windedness” but all the time to talk about shit(sometimes even literally)

_Your simple assessments on audience are based on a small fraction of opinion and personal judgment that is faulty and incomplete

_Your assessment on matters of methodology is definitely relevant (as stated before) but in the end only the subject of whatever is being discussed determines ones approach in speaking about said subject

_Being muted or having your voice suppressed by outside influence is oppression, muting yourself or not sharing your thoughts simply because "you don’t want to" and then having to put that forth as reasoning for whatever reason is simply laziness

Full Version:
_The analogy you used is phrased wrong, and used in the wrong context.

_I believe any audience is a good audience. As for the most part Im taking about issues that effect all humans, and last time I checked, this board is full of such. BUT as I grow, and learn, I understand that not every APPROACH is a good one. So with saying that, your point referring to such is definitely a relevant one.

_Your last paragraph, is common, expected, and completely exposes the reality, that you have no real comprehension about why politics need to be discussed. It has nothing to do with winning, or defending opinion, or feeling smart, and everything to do with the true definition of the word and its purpose - that being spreading awareness, and enabling dialogue amongst those in the population that are sensitive or empathetic enough to get involved in some shape or form in a definitive struggle for human rights. Real human rights, the kind of which are denied to millions upon millions of people everyday.

_The last statement being said, you have all the right, to care or not, discuss or not. But do not transfer your inability, or unwillingness to get involved in any such fashion onto my methodology. If you want to critique my methodology then base it on relevant context and precedent. Basing it on, what you think or don’t think personally means nothing to me, or any movement for that matter - such critique is unprincipled, and irrelevant.

_Lastly, if one assumes their surrounding community is nothing but a bunch of screwed up ravers or partygoers, then one will never play a part or be a part of said community ever elevating itself beyond shallow judgment. People on this board are young women and men, people of ethnic backgrounds, students, working class people and understanding such, one then must understand that said community, is not simply what you may define themselves as, but rather a slice of a larger demographic, in which matters of war, oppression, poverty, and prejudice impact everyday.

Do you have this in an audio commentary?

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by Avana

I get the point that Mangle is trying to get across.
Dateline probably got the same from those girls as Vice did, but Dateline is required to censor it.

You obviously don't get my point because the girls have practically nothing to do with the VICE scandal. It's VICE's editor who exibited racism on that audio commentary you still haven't listened to. The commentary is on an article about the girls but the girls don't speak on the commentary at all. I could care less about Prussian Blue; they'll die unknown outside of the Southern US.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Avana

I get the point that Mangle is trying to get across. I don't like racism, nor do I condone it. Vice magazine isn't a group of racist writers, but a group of writers that are trying to go for shock value. They reeled Mangle in, hook, line and sinker. His reaction to people, and to the magazine is where the joke lies. Me laughing at that joke, isn't a reflection of my beliefs.

So racism is not racism when its supposed to be funny or for shock value? Who determines this? Are such people actaully effected by any number of racist mindsets or values? Or does the reality that, the desensitization of people to racism in the name of "not agknowledging it means it doesnt effect you" is in fact a reactionary sentiment that fails to take responsibility for the millions of people who ARE effected by racism?

Dateline probably got the same from those girls as Vice did, but Dateline is required to censor it.

Thats great, what does that mean? Why should it matter?

I chose not to speak of my politics on the boards because my beliefs would grossly offend others, just like your politics grossly offend me. This is my opinion, and it is my right.

Your talking alot about your right to be silent, or you right to not have to share your political sentiment, and yet at the same time you are excersising your right to critique others, makes jokes, and generally say whatever you chose to say? You are giving off contridictory messages.

On one side you are telling me (three times now) that its your right to not share your political views, but then turn around and interject in political discussion or undermine the ability of someone else to raise a political discussion. In this case, your rights mean nothing. You are essentially a coward, with unprincipled politics (what they are is still a mystery) who is getting caught up in her own lack of an ability to actaully clarify her stance in an objective or factual manner that is relevent.

Pointing a finger at me, and saying I am the reason there is hate in the world is typical of both of you. You seem to want someone to blame. Maybe instead of looking to blame someone you should try and find a solution.

Did i say that? Could you quote it for me, I cant find it? Personally I dont think you are capable of being a significant factor in raising hate based racism. You speak like an idiot, who gets caught in talking shit, and tries to "wit" herself out of whatever situation. But you dont even have a significant grasp of wit. So you're stuck. Then you raise some "dont blame me - look into yourself" dalai lama bullshit?!? The only thing I would EVER blame you of is not being nearly half as funny or entertaining as you seem to think you are, and being a relative coward when it comes to expressing your real feelings "because they may offend a lot of people"

If I could offer YOU some advice ( a reciprocating gesture) it would be to explore your politics, and regardless of what they are, makes sure you clarify them to yourself. Because in the end of the day, one politics defines ones character, not how funny they attempt to be.