Michael Moore and his new movie

[sidekick]

^not kidding.

they may not do the exactly same stuff...but they both manipulate the public so their view seems to be the only one that you can take.

[DJ Ponz]

What people need to recognize here is that Moore has provided a version of the truth, just like CNN does, and the administration does. Don't get your nickers in a twist cause its "biased and wroght with a leftest agenda" - of course it is! Find me something that isn't biased. The question is whether or not people can differentiate what is fact and fiction, truth and drama, cinematic effect and agenda.

[miss.myra]

Yeah but I always find it hard to digest Moore's apparent "own version of the truth" because he's often harping it from the top of the soapbox.

[Grapes]

^ People who bitch about this tendency of Moore's should take note that he spends most of Farenheit 9/11 on the sidelines. He lets his research and his video footage (lots and lots of it!) do the talking.

And for the record, Sidekick, I can't think of a single instance where Moore goes out of his way to make soldiers look stupid. Remember that in his final comments, he plays them up as the poor and underprivelleged who are going to war for the wealthy amongst the country... for what turns out to be (as I think Farenheit 9/11 goes a long way towards proving) a completely unnecessary cause.

The only time the some of soldiers came off looking dumb was when opened their mouths. Moore can hardly be blamed for that.. nor is it wrong for him to select evidence of American soldier's ignorance, since part of the movie's point is the overall ignorance with which America entered the war.

I think the interviews with the American forces were some of the most revealing and powerful in the whole film. I don't think it's nearly enough to say that the soldiers just come off looking like "idiots"... I think there was a noticeable transition from guys who were queing up Metallica CDs in order to get a good war buzz goin... to guys remarking that it may seem like a video game at first, but you find out soon enough that it's not... to guys saying they would never ever ever return to Iraq, and that they plan to swing heavily in favour of the Democratic party and campaign for it actively...

... Once they've rehabilitated from their horrific injuries and amputations. :-/

4.5/5 stars from me for Farenheit 9/11. And for the record, I'd give Bowling for Columbine about a 3/5

[mugsy]

^ dude ever heard of editing? im sure someone could take an interview with you and make you seem dull\dumb\or whatever they wanted.

[iluvtechno]

I'm a big fan of Michael Moore, he is really an exceptional director/actor/writer what ever you wanna call him. He kicks ass!

[Grapes]

^ dude ever heard of editing? im sure someone could take an interview with you and make you seem dull\dumb\or whatever they wanted.

You can only say "I hate this fucking country (Iraq)" in a limited number of contexts..

Btw I'd like to see what you suggest in action. Clip some sentences of my previous post together in a way that makes me seem dull/dumb/or whatever.

Go!

[mugsy]

^ im not an editor nor did i say i was. some people are really really good at it though. and like i said in my post, im sure SOMEONE could, not refering to myself.
how many soldiers did mr.moore interview that were not "stupid" or didnt want to be there? we wont know because they were edited out.
like you said it was his choice and way of showing\making an impact by choosing to interview those who believe it is a good thing. but really now, i dont believe that all the soldiers on the front believe this or act this way. therefore, michael moore edited his film to show the less intelligent of the forces.

[ebbomega]

I have ADD or some shit so I couldn't be bothered to read all your posts.

To everybody h8ing on Moore for making biased material:

So the fuck what? Let the material speak for itself, stop worrying so much about an agenda. Every single person on the planet has a bias of some type. It's called "perception" and it's what makes us unique from each other. It sure as hell beats the shit I'm being fed on news broadcasts.

[Revolver]

disinformation!..thats all it is?

saudi-bush family connections???of course there both oil familys you dumb fuck theres bound to be a connection somewhere.....

the carlyle group? nothing new there eaither..

the information is out there of all to see. all moore is Is a left wing propoganda macheine skewing down the facts(and his own books) to make this information accesible to a generally un-enlightend, to-scared-to-look-beyond-cnn american populus.

if i was running the bush admin,carlyle group,illuminati,masonic order....any of the global power elite organnizations, i would want more MICHALE MOORES running around.....

its perfect dissinformation...and every body's playing right into it

FNORD

[Grapes]

^ Aren't we elitist. Do you really REALLY think Bush wants people like Moore running around calling him on his shit? Are you sure Dubya wouldn't have just preferred the status quo? "Everyone's playing right into it". Playing into what? Hating Dubya and not wanting to re-elect him? Try thinking before you post.

how many soldiers did mr.moore interview that were not "stupid" or didnt want to be there? we wont know because they were edited out.

Um, hi, I saw plenty of them. Like the guy who admitted he'd rather serve jail time than go back to Iraq. Or the guy who said he was going to campaign hard for the democrats. Or the soldier who was killed.. his mom read the last letter they received from him, and he had completely given up on any notion of the war being just.

Edited out my ass. What movie were you watching?? The soldiers who had come around to just how bullshit the Iraq war was were the very focal point of Moore's argument.

[mugsy]

Originally Posted by Grapes

Um, hi, I saw plenty of them. Like the guy who admitted he'd rather serve jail time than go back to Iraq. Or the guy who said he was going to campaign hard for the democrats. Or the soldier who was killed.. his mom read the last letter they received from him, and he had completely given up on any notion of the war being just.

Edited out my ass. What movie were you watching?? The soldiers who had come around to just how bullshit the Iraq war was were the very focal point of Moore's argument.

hey man, havent seen the movie, was just going from what you said in your first post, it was kinda vaugue and seemed like you were hinting at the fact that all the soldiers were stupid\ill-informed.
i apologize for not assuming better.

[Grapes]

hey man, havent seen the movie,

Oh man. Is there an eye-rolling emoticon on here?

Look, sorry for being a dick, but here's 2 things:

1) I can be a total dick sometimes

and

2) I'm getting really tired of people just attaching their comments about Bowling for Columbine to this film without recognizing how different they are. "I hate Michael Moore, he always opinionizes and slants the truth etc etc etc". Well in Farenheit 9/11 he reeeally ropes in some of those tendencies, no doubt aware of how much the conservative right would want to attack and discredit it. Yeah, his opinion is still pretty obvious, but you leave the film having a really hard time disagreeing with it.

At least I did.

[miss.myra]

The problem I have with Michael Moore really boils down to the point that all he does is harp about how everything is wrong with the world, but he seldomly proposes his own idea of any kind of a viable solution to these problems. We're all fairly aware of the fact that the world is a fucked up place, what good is throwing the obvious in our face with no hope that there's a way to fix these mistakes?

[cheebus420]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

maybe we can get chomsky and moore to collaborate on a film together. moore can handle the entertainment and the humour to make the film sellable, and chomsky can handle the facts and politics.

Go watch "The Corporation" .

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by cheebus420

Go watch "The Corporation" .

i want too so bad, but i missed it in theatres and now it's in that stupid stage of between video and theatre.

but i heard a crazy rumour that they were re-releasing it sometime in the summer for a wider release because now it will do better with more people knowing about it? i hope that's true.

[cheebus420]

Two good reviews of the film are : http://www.americanprogress.org/site...J8OVF&b=106595 , and my personal favorite: http://www.guerrillanews.com/media/doc4732.html

I agree with claims that it is hardly a "documentary" , and as such should not have won the pivotal Gold Prize at Cannes. However there is a lot of information within the film which needs to be brought to the attention of the masses.

And to answer your question, Sidekick, about a weak connection between the Bush and Saudi family's , read the book "House Of Bush, House Of Saud" which shows the ties in much more disgusting detail. And if nothing else, think of this simple fact: If planes had crashed into the twin towers, and the highjackers were Korean, every headline the next day would read "KOREA ATTACKS AMERICA!!!" . However 16 of the 19 hi-jackers were Saudi, yet the headlines were all "TERRORISTS ATTACK AMERICA" . On top of that, you ad the fact that yes, all of Osama's family was allowed to leave the country when the rest of the world was grounded, authorized at the highest level of government . Combining this information, simply seems more valuable when you research how deep the ties go between the Bush's and the Saudi's.

[Revolver]

*ouch*

im thinking so much that my head hurts.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

x 3000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000

All the proof in the world won't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. Remeber how you exagerated the US economy by 1000%? or do I have to pull out the quote for that too?

***

Originally Posted by miss.myra

The problem I have with Michael Moore really boils down to the point that all he does is harp about how everything is wrong with the world, but he seldomly proposes his own idea of any kind of a viable solution to these problems. We're all fairly aware of the fact that the world is a fucked up place, what good is throwing the obvious in our face with no hope that there's a way to fix these mistakes?

You know actually Myra it's quite simple, it's up to YOU to make the difference, stop expecting to be spoon fed.

***
MANY OF YOU HAVE EYES, BUT DO NOT SEE!

The unthinkable has happened, I loved this film! This film is a masterpiece...just goes to show that you should never reserve judgement until looking into things for yourself.

Moore's finally let the cat out of the bag, for those who want to know, this movie has MANY MANY double meanings, in true Masonic fashion!

BRILLIANT!

WANNA SEE A SHITLOAD OF MASONIC HANDSHAKES?

At about the 36 minute mark of the movie (I watched a cammed version for free offline, so it may be off from the original viewing time) THERE IS A PLETHORA OF MASONIC HANDSHAKES (10 to be exact), BACK TO BACK!

At about the 81 minute mark, there is an interview with one African American soldier who has decided that he couldn't fight in the war anymore. The quote is:

"I will not let anyone send me back there to kill all the poor people, especially when they pose no threat to me, or my country......I won't do it."


At about the 98 minute mark when Moore is shaking hands with Congressman John Taner, LOOK AT THE FUCKING HANDSHAKE! HE'S A MASON!


And by the way, that mother who lost her son, she is a perfect example of how lost most people are in this society and why the New World Order is a GOOD thing. She talks about being saved by Jesus, is shown wearing a Maltese Cross (yet another freemasonic symbol) ....and she is also shown later on wearing a Mickey Mouse T-shirt (Walt Disney is known to have been heavily into the occult, just watch the movie fantasia) and she is also in an inter-racial relationship (the reason I mention this is because for many interracial folks, when they have kids, their kids are confused about which culture to embrace, so what usually happens is they embrace the consumer culture which is fueled by the war machine, the end result speaks for itself).

UNLESS YOU ARE CONCIOUSLY AWARE OF THIS, THEY BRAINWASH YOU WITH THESE SYMBOLS!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
While on the subject of movies with hidden Masonic meanings, watch Godfather 3, and Starwars movies.

They even mention P2 in Godfather 3, which is a famous Freemason lodge, and the movie clearly lets you know that the mafia, the government, and organized religions are all working together...HEY, IT'S JUST BUSINESS.

I'm not going to even start on StarWars or I'll be here all night, but I urge you all that want to WAKE UP to view these films with educated eyes, they are trying to tell you something!

PS

WAKE UP!

[Sykonee]

^
Going by your own logic, I don't believe a word of what you are trying to say. You are lying and revealing only partial truths in order to promote your own agenda, just like the rest of the world.

"My dear doctor, [the stories] are all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

You know actually Myra it's quite simple, it's up to YOU to make the difference, stop expecting to be spoon fed.

Really? I didn't get that message from his stuff. Thanks, but I already know the obvious, I think you totally missed my point.

Maybe I should just follow your lead and get spoon fed conspiracy theories instead, because that obviously makes a lot more sense.

[sass69]

I thought it was a really well done film that brought a lot out into the open, very emotional too. But I do agree with Myra that it does lack Moores own insight into what should be done. I personally have no clue how the world should be run but I would be interested to see what his thoughts are

[ebbomega]

All information is propoganda, someone's askew on the world and its state. It all serves someone's agenda regardless of whoever is promoting the information.

Revolver: Ever heard of Constructive Gullibility?

[SEAN!]

a masonic handshake eh?

well thats the fuckin clincher.

grab a brain you fuckin idiot.

p.s if you dont stop sending me PMs im gonna kick your fucking head in, maybe then we'll get to see if you have any brains as they ooze out your fuckin ears, you waste of skin.

[Revolver]

^whoa.

ebbomega:

i have not heard the term 'Constructive Gullibility', what exactly dose that mean?