Michael Moore and his new movie

[sidekick]

just saw fahrenheit 9/11 tonight.

i didn't find this movie to be very good.

first let me say this: I don't like bush, i think the war on iraq is crap and i don't support it at all.

but michael moore once again kept up his tradition of being able to produce a very biased and slanted piece of film.

there were a couple parts that really got to me in the whole movie:

the whole bush/saudi/bin laden connection. that whole segment i found to be very weak. if you dig deep enough, sure, you can find connections between anyone. i didn't really see the point he was making.

he made a lot of the soldiers look like idiots. i don't think that was nessesary. i understand that the war is a bad thing and is stupid and pointless, but why try to discredit the people that were ordered to go over there and fight? why make them look like fools?

at the end when he did his trademark "I'm Michael Moore and I'll do anything!" stunt. when he was asking congress to enroll their kids in the army. Um....of course they'd react like that!! any parent would if you came up to them on the street with pamphlets and asked them to enroll their children to go over and fight in a war.

there were some good parts in the movie. that woman that was all for the war until her son died and suddenly was against it. i thought that was good because like she said, so many people are ignorant about what's really going on. and yeah, that's why this movie is good because it is going to get a lot of people thinking about this subject and that's important. but i just didn't agree with a lot of his tactics to get to that point.

i also enjoyed the Orwell quote at the end, i thought it tied up the movie quite nicely. and i thought it was a very good point about how when america is in trouble it is the people from lower classes that go out and fight first and hardest.

[djmarkpaul]

Micheal Moore is a freemason. That movie was designed to confuse you. You want real proof about unanswered questions regarding 9/11?

goto: tv.phaseiii.org

Download the excerpt of "Painful Deceptions". And let the laws of physics prove to you that we've been had.

[sidekick]

so what are you thoughts on his movie though? did you think it treated the subject fairly and objectionably?

[djmarkpaul]

I've downloaded the flick but have only heard reviews so far. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect though, but I will post my own critical analysis on the deets in the coming week after I've seen it for myself.

***

Moore has never been fair or objectionable because that is not his means. Moore has always made sure that his audience would be entertained first, and in his...documentaries...hahahahaha...educa tion has always taken a back seat. I am one who agrees with the sentiment that learning can be and should be encouraged to be fun, but this guy constantly takes it over the top. I've seen most of his films, and I always had a hunch he was spinning like a top, so much so that he had to have some connections with those on top. Gun control is a totalitarian's dream and was easily a hot topic in his last flick. I was begining to get suspicious. Then I saw the cover for this movie.

(see pic below)

Note that the thumbs are covering the knuckles for both Bush's and Moore's hands. Classic masonic handshake, this guy's a fraud.

[crookedking]

the commericial looks great though.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Micheal Moore is a freemason. That movie was designed to confuse you. You want real proof about unanswered questions regarding 9/11?

goto: tv.phaseiii.org

Download the excerpt of "Painful Deceptions". And let the laws of physics prove to you that we've been had.

x 3000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000

[Rhianna]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

just saw fahrenheit 9/11 tonight.


and yeah, that's why this movie is good because it is going to get a lot of people thinking about this subject and that's important. but i just didn't agree with a lot of his tactics to get to that point.

Exactly. It may be biased and slanted but I think people should just take it w/ a grain of salt. It'll get some people to open their eyes a little and think about what's going on, and that's good.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Rhianna

Exactly. It may be biased and slanted but I think people should just take it w/ a grain of salt. It'll get some people to open their eyes a little and think about what's going on, and that's good.

i agree with that. it just bothers me that some people go into his movies so blinded and think that everything that he says and every accusation he makes is true and based on fact. people are starting to view moore as this almost godlike figure that can do no wrong because he's fighting 'the good fight'. but it's possible to fight the good fight in the bad way.

it seems to me that he's using the same 'wool over the eyes' techniques as the bush administration is to get their points across, in his own movie to get his points across.

[~god~]

I hate michael moore. i never liked him to start with.
If i want my questions to be answered, i read books on both sides - and come upon my own conclusion. I don't need people like Mr. Moore shoving them down my throat. how does that make him different from Bush (in respected levels)?

I read Chomsky's 911, and i found it by far more informative than stupid Moore films.

[sidekick]

the only reason that michael moore has the following he does is because he appeals to the public. not a lot of people are going to go out and read books on bush and read chomsky and make the decisions for themselves. they want things outlined in black and white for them so it's easy. they want an enemy clearly defined for them. that's the easiest way to get to the american public. they don't like fighting enemies that don't have faces: hence why at first they were fighting 'osama bin laden' and then 'saddam hussein'. it's easier to rally them to fight against something if you stick a face onto it and say "this is the bad man! this is the enemy!"

and that's exactly what Moore is doing with bush. now i don't disagree that he's the bad man or anything, but i'm just pointing out that moore has the same tactics as the white house does to rally the american public together for a fight. it works too.

i do think it's good that there is finally some 'leader' that has emerged to guide the public in their fight against these things. even if it is michael moore.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

and that's exactly what Moore is doing with bush. now i don't disagree that he's the bad man or anything, but i'm just pointing out that moore has the same tactics as the white house does to rally the american public together for a fight. it works too.

yea. this is true. the only factor about Moore that impresses me is his whole puppetism.
Bush, Osama, Saddam, and the likes are all puppets. noone is convinced that the world revolves around 4 people.
Moore is also a puppet. a puppet that represents the left side, and tries very hard to balance the scale.

[sidekick]

i don't know if i believe so much that michael moore is a puppet. i think he is going out there and guininly working for a cause that he believes in. even if, now, he has become more of a symbol than an activist...but that's just what happens when you become famous.

i ran into a book at chapters yesterday that actually picks apart and attacks michael moore for basicaly everything that we have talked about in this post. now, i haven't read the entire book, just selections out of it (i plan to read it over the next two weeks) but it looks to be promising.

[Jingles]

this is all a regurgitation of what was said about Bowling for Columbine - perhaps we should just go dig up those threads rathering then saying it all over again

apparently in these media controled times
we have to use media to battle media

I congratulate Moore on being smart enough to manipulate it for his msg
Chomskys book might be the better informant, but simply because of it's format it's never going to get the same audience as Moore's film - the types of people that would read Chomsky are the types that would have informed themselves before making an opinion anyway -- Moore is providing an alternative to those that get their news from Entertainment Tonight and Larry King - and i think that he has done a good job

[Spoon]

[quote=Sidekick] not a lot of people are going to go out and read books on bush and read chomsky and make the decisions for themselves. they want things outlined in black and white for them so it's easy. they want an enemy clearly defined for them. that's the easiest way to get to the american public.




Thats the thing you have to remeber when you see this movie. Its not made for the rest of the world, it was made by an American for Americans. Its made for all the people who shop at Wal-Mart, watch football on Sundays and could not find Canada on a map let alone Afghanistan. I went to school in the states and it always shocked me at how naive they where about the rest of the world, Canadians think more international.

[sidekick]

For Jingles:

i agree with you that it's good that now the general public has a way that they can see this issue and that it's being brought into light by the media and getting a lot of attention. i'm not arguing against that.

why can't people see the real reason why i don't like him...are people so blinded by their love for michael moore that all they see in my posts is MOORE HATER!!!!?

i don't like his TACTICS for getting the message across. and NO, i'm not talking about using media to fight media. kudos for him on that! bravo! you've figured out the trick michael! people like watching movies!

i'm contesting the fact that he is twisting his facts and presenting an untruthful view of the subject that he is dealing with.

so please, re-read my posts and understand what i'm criticizing about him. NOT his cause, NOT because he uses media to fight media.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Spoon

Thats the thing you have to remeber when you see this movie. Its not made for the rest of the world, it was made by an American for Americans. Its made for all the people who shop at Wal-Mart, watch football on Sundays and could not find Canada on a map let alone Afghanistan. I went to school in the states and it always shocked me at how naive they where about the rest of the world, Canadians think more international.

but this is exactly the thing that scares me about this movie. people are so ignorant about this subject that they are going to leave the theatre believing everything that was presented in that movie as true, when really a lot of it is twisted and they don't realize that he is sensationalizing a lot of his information to make it fit his message and become more entertaining.

plus, michael moore has become such a respected figure with most people that he can say anything against bush and people would most likely believe it.

i know i'm coming off as a bush supporter here (when really i'm the exactly opposite). i'm not for bush, i'm not for the war and generally i'm not for americans either.

maybe we can get chomsky and moore to collaborate on a film together. moore can handle the entertainment and the humour to make the film sellable, and chomsky can handle the facts and politics.

[Spoon]

I am not a Moore supporter at all. His movies make me feel like i was being told that i was to dumb to be worried about the details and just trust him that he knows whats good for us. What i do like is that there is another opion finally being given attention after the very biased and one sided reporting that CNN, MSNBC and the rest off the media gave on the reasons for going to war.


Yeah it should be more accurate and less sensational. But why should Moore be more acountable then rest of the American media

[Jingles]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

For Jingles:



so please, re-read my posts and understand what i'm criticizing about him. NOT his cause, NOT because he uses media to fight media.

Slow down there buddy - are you saying he's using an untruthful method to fight another untruthful method? (isn't that the point?)

re read my post - i get what you're saying

Moore isn't my hero
but i don't know why people would expect that his method should be any more forthright then the opposing one

[rawb]

im going to build my own country in my apartment. NOGIRLSALLOWED-ISTAN.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Jingles

Slow down there buddy - are you saying he's using an untruthful method to fight another untruthful method? (isn't that the point?)

how does that him any better than them? if he's using the same tactics as the opposing team then how does that make him more credible or believable than the bush administration?

if he's saying: they're twisting facts and not telling you the whole truth. BAD BAD!

and then goes and attacks them by twisting the facts and not telling the whole truth....then...why should i believe him either?

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by rawb

im going to build my own country in my apartment. NOGIRLSALLOWED-ISTAN.

can i come?

i'll bring muffins :)

[~god~]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

i don't know if i believe so much that michael moore is a puppet.

Moore is a puppet precisely because he digs attention. He rebels in opposition to the majority, while supporting the minority. He still needs all that support. In order to give the lefters the satisfaction they seek, he has to go in a certain flow. That is why all his movies seem the same. There is not much more he can do/say.

He is a puppet that gets on the media to represent the minority.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

can i come?

i'll bring muffins :)

hot chix too please.

[Silverwinged]

Moore, in my opinion is bringing out different theories that no Americans would have thought of because they put so much faith blindly into the Bush admin. And Jake, he's doing exactly what he wanted to by getting you all pissed off. He would NOT have been able to put out a film like that, having it not based on truths and solid facts; because as I said before, it is NOT a compliment to the American Government or the people. As outrageous as it seems, there has to be fact behind what he is saying. When someone is that adamant about getting their point across, they'll use any means necessary. "You have to break a few eggs to make an omellete" - Bush

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Spoon

Yeah it should be more accurate and less sensational. But why should Moore be more acountable then rest of the American media

because he wants to win our trust.