~~~Is this legal or Illegal?~~~(Narcs, Undercovers, and what they can and can't do)

[Knigel]

and so you ask him if he's a cop, he looks at you funny and tells you of course he is not a cop, does he look like a cop to you he says. You try tactic number two and try to be a little sneaky and ask for his badge number. He gets irked and tells you he doesn't have a badge number since of course he is not a cop but if you don't want the e then thats fine he'll go somewhere else. You hold him back and offer him a toke of a joint, which he takes. You now think you're safe so you buy the e off of him, as you put the caps into your pocket he asks you to put your arms behind your back since you are You are at a club one night(Canada/US) and are itching to do something fun but illicit lets use MDMA for example. You're just chilling at the bar and then this guy who you've seen around the last few months there comes up to you and offers you some caps of e for a reasonable price, you are just about to make the purchase but get a wave of paranoia now under arrest.....

...Was this a legal or illegal arrest, why or why not???

[penguinabc123]

legal of course, what did he do wrong other than hit your joint? hell probably denie that and since hes a cop theyll belive him over you, bottom line dont buy from people you dont know, especially if it sounds to cheap to be true.

[bunnywoowoo]

If he comes up to you, its illegal. Cops arent allowed to convince regular people to do something illegal in order to arrest them.

[Chet]

you should have jerked off on his foot
no cops let that slide

[hardstylin]

for the most party cops dont go out and try and bust randoms for buying a single hit of E or even a couple they worry about the big fish so to speak.

[Chi Chi]

I think the cop should get arrested for being such a fuck nut

[Knigel]

Originally posted by bunnywoowoo
If he comes up to you, its illegal. Cops arent allowed to convince regular people to do something illegal in order to arrest them.

Where did you hear this? Can you back it up in any way?

[crackjoy]

^its called entrapment, and its very illegal.

[Knigel]

Originally posted by crackjoy
^its called entrapment, and its very illegal.

Yes entrapment is illegal...

...but can you verify your information that this was a form of legal entrapment? I'm also curious as to where you picked this up in the first place.

[Kandyapple]

I heard once that if you ask if he is actualy a police officer he is supposed to say yes no matter what. You asked and he denied it but had the authority to arrest you. I would say that he is a cop. Now I don't know for sure if this is true. My friends father was a police officer for most of his life. So I would assume she would know the facts. But he has been a police officer in many places of the world so maybe some rules are different. But maybe look into that.

[sweet~kandy]

illegal because any cop has to show his badge and id to you before your arrested.

I dunno this is a tricky situation, Im not sure

[Knigel]

Originally posted by Kandyapple
I heard once that if you ask if he is actualy a police officer he is supposed to say yes no matter what. You asked and he denied it but had the authority to arrest you. I would say that he is a cop. Now I don't know for sure if this is true. My friends father was a police officer for most of his life. So I would assume she would know the facts. But he has been a police officer in many places of the world so maybe some rules are different. But maybe look into that.

Kandyapple, good response, I like how you stated that you weren't sure and were relying on second hand information, this is one of the best information gathering techniques. Better to say you aren't sure then to pass out myth as fact The entire asking an undercover if they are a cop or asking for their badge number "trick" is actually a myth in Canada and the US at least, but likely most countries. Simple logic is also a best friend here since an undercover is risking their life to make this bust, if it were this easy to just ask them then we'd have very few undercovers left and lots of body bags :D

The best friend you'll have for this info is the source itself since many police officers don't even know the law that they are protecting. Check out our not so friendly Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. First one to find this Waldo of info within and copy and paste the relevant section gets a cookie.

I often joke about how this lovely piece of mis-information was passed around by cops in the first place to make their jobs a little bit more on the easy side of things.

[cinist]

cops usually try to get the dealer not the consumer


entrapment though illegal in canada is customary practice in the states, they have good ethics there huh

[Knigel]

Originally posted by sweet~kandy
illegal because any cop has to show his badge and id to you before your arrested.

I dunno this is a tricky situation

Ooooooo smart :D

You are actually correct, but because I had left that portion out by accident, didn't actually think about adding that into the scenario. Generally however it's not the undercover who makes the arrest, when the bust happens they try to get the undercover out as quick as possible while a team of other police do the rest. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll edit that in for the future.

No lets say this portion *was* done correctly what is your opinion on the rest of the factors?

[Knigel]

Originally posted by cinist
cops usually try to get the dealer not the consumer


entrapment though illegal in Canada is customary practice in the states, they have good ethics there huh

Yes you are correct that entrapment is illegal in Canada and used quite a bit in the States *but* is there anything in this situation that would be considered a legal entrapment? If you say yes please state where you got this information and verify it with a reputable source.

[Dice_]

in canada you can by drugs well small amounts. but you can not use or sell

[cinist]

Originally posted by Knigel


Yes you are correct that entrapment is illegal in Canada and used quite a bit in the States *but* is there anything in this situation that would be considered a legal entrapment? If you say yes please state where you got this information and verify it with a reputable source.

if you were to offer a police officer a "tok" of a joint he could get you for traffiking.

[Goat]

a cop doesn't have to say yes if you ask if he's a cop. it's a myth.
i'm pretty sure he'd get in trouble for takin a hit of a joint, but im not 100% certain on that one.

consult your lawyer.

here's your best bet if your going to buy chemicals off of someone.
observation: how many muscular/bulky people do you know who've done drugs for years?
ravers aren't exactly the scarriest people in the world. downfall of staying up for a day of work and then a night of dancing, flailing, sweating etc is you loose weight and muscle mass if you don't keep up the effort.

if you're ever at a rave and can't find drugs. go find the highest looking person possible and ask if he has any. chances are he'll give you something.

fucking ravers.

[AGROculture]

why don't you just find a website that offers free legal advice

google it!!

[~soundwave005~]

Originally posted by cinist
cops usually try to get the dealer not the consumer


entrapment though illegal in canada is customary practice in the states, they have good ethics there huh

Oh yes here in the states it doesnt matter if you ask them if there a cop they dont have to say yes any more.....gotta love the USA huh.................lol

[inkster]

totally entrapment. if it goes to court, it should be easy to defend. in addition to that, the judge would likely be pissy at the cop for tying up the courts with merely an end-user.

[Knigel]

Inkster where did you hear this and can you verify it with anything?

[QuanNeur]

knigel, this is very, very common knowledge... if you really need further proof then seriously, just call the VPD yourself and ask. i do this all the time when i have questions about legality. anywhere in canada, police cannot sell you drugs and then arrest you.. it would never happen. like everyone is saying, it's entrapment. travel to certain states and you'll find this situation is not the case.

[Dean]

aren't the undercover cops more into catching the dealers rather than the people buying a cap or two?

[Knigel]

Originally posted by QuanNeur
knigel, this is very, very common knowledge... if you really need further proof then seriously, just call the VPD yourself and ask. i do this all the time when i have questions about legality. anywhere in canada, police cannot sell you drugs and then arrest you.. it would never happen. like everyone is saying, it's entrapment. travel to certain states and you'll find this situation is not the case.

Many people say that asking an undercover cop for his badge number and him having to tell the truth is common knowledge, but it's a myth propagated constantly. There are so many things in the human mind like this that are taken as fact, everything from MDMA is proven to be neurotoxic to Banana getting you high to pretty much half the things we believe in. All I've done so far is ask people for verification and source of a predicable response, so far I have no verification from anyone here. I'm curious have *you* phoned them yet? If you have let me know the response, and don't forget to research any answer they give you. You would be surprised at how many police don't know the laws that they claim they are protecting.

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Interesting Article:

http://www.jelks.nu/misc/polis/5monkeys.html


Start with a cage containing five monkeys.

In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After awhile, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, if another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, turn off the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys that have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs.

Why not? Because that is the way it has always been.

And that is how custom, corporate policy, and law begin ...