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| The Chronical Chill out, spark a jay, and enter the chronical. |
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Mar 01, 05
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No I'd think primarily of the "come-down" which is a horrible experience , when your brain realizes it's got such low levels of serotonin to work with.
There's other narcotics I'd give a cancer patient before "E" , namely heroine or opium ( something in the opiate family ) because of the better pain killing properties then morphine. 
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Mar 01, 05
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It really depends on how the trip goes. If you deal with the pent up emotions/issues that need to be dealt with, then your likely to not really notice the low levels of seretonin. Being all chill and sleeping alot helps with the seretonin levels too, all of which I imagine would be no problem at all for a terminally ill patient... I wouldn't imagine anything like work would get in the way of that. Not trying to say it would be beneficial to everyone, but I am 100% certain it would benefit some.
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Mar 01, 05
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^ Arguably, wouldn't a terminally ill patient have a lot of pent up emotions/issues though? Even when dealt with properly, these people are probably not going to really forget about that, it's something that is probably extremely difficult to come to terms with or be at peace with.
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Mar 02, 05
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^ yeah, no doubt. you're gonna die, do you think that maybe the MDMA could maybe intensify those feelings to the point where it could be horrible?
i mean "empathogen" it takes the feelings you already have and builds on them. if you're really scared or anxious it could make it worse.
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Mar 02, 05
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im sure theyve thought of all the negitive things,and im sure like i said theyve found a way to avoid them,like i said. and i agian i really think that shitty feeling you get is from shitty caps,and taking alot of mdma until your all out of seritonin and dopamine,cuz half of a good cap n a full meal sum vitamins and a good nap and im good to go.and im chik witha weak stomach and low tolerance.
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Mar 02, 05
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^not when you have a brain full of seretonin :) That's what the psychiatric community in the 70s figured, at least. They were able to do about 8 months worth of conventional psychotherapy on a patient in a single session, because elevated seretonin levels allowed them to delve as deep into the patients psyche as they needed to, without triggering any sort of fear response.
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Mar 02, 05
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Well MDMA could as well, but if psychiatric analysis showed that MDMA would help the patient, then it probably will. I mean its not like they'd be sitting alone in a room for 4 hours. I'm sure the doctor, psychotherapist, and family would be around for the session, and with E, that's really all you need for it to do its thing.
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Mar 03, 05
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Even if it is 'pure MDMA', you can't say that you'd run a strong risk of post session depression because of the elevated levels of serotonin during it. I would not want to risk placing a terminally ill patient in a circumstance where they could risk getting depression, that could do more harm than good in the session imo. I know it may not happen in 100% of the cases, but the risk is definitely still there.
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Mar 03, 05
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how fast does your body produce seretonin? how fast does your body produce it when you are in a state of depression? you cant deny that mdma doesnt drain seretonin levels, thats what makes you more "happy and willing to talk about your feelings." also,there are so many different types of chemo thearapy, each reacting differently to the body and to other medications. why on earth would someone want to put even more chemicals into their body, that may or may not help them? im doing a project at school right now that represents depression and how for some unknown reason our society has deemed it unreasonable. why is it that people who are dying are not allowed to be depressed or upset? why cant they have a hard time expressing what is going on in their minds? how the hell can we be so selfish to think, being healthy, that we could ever understand truely what is happening to them? its been really bothering my lately that people dont think being sad is a good thing. sometimes it can be a great thing. we are human, we have emotions. its one of the things that supposedly makes us more evolved then animals, why are we not embracing it? my doctor has openly offered me sleeping pills and anti-depresents because i seem sad. what the fuck? cant i be sad? is it a crime? im still functioning, its not affecting my life in any way that holds me back, why cant i be sad? same thing with my dad. why cant he be sad? why cant he have days of being depressed and not wanting to talk? why is it so neccessary to force people to speak about emotions and feelings before they are ready to? i respect that sometimes my dad doesnt want to talk about his cancer, that some days we act like nothing is different. ITS HEALTHY. when did the world turn upside down? can someone please tell me. some days it disgusts me how insensitive society can be when they think they are being sensitive.
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Mar 03, 05
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DING DING DING! exactly to be truthful ive had this experience when my dad n bf died and it was like 5 months later when it all hit me and i was stressed to the limit n depressed my whole body hurt from the stress and on my gfs bday we did sum goon clean mellow caps n talked n talk n talked and in teh morning i felt so refreshed not down wats so ever and after that i was able to cry n deal with the whole situation ritalin your my role model:) lol
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Mar 03, 05
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case closed. But again extasy is in the person not in the drug,to each there own.
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Mar 03, 05
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um...terminilly ill means there going to die,well for the most part...they dont have much time...its ment to make there last experiences more happy n joyful,there for helping the ppl that get left behind when they die.Agian...making the whole experience not as harsh and truamatic...have you ever had someone die? because its something youll never ,ever forget and if you do,you need help,its good to talk about things and you shouldnt ignore ne thing thats how i almost became depressed n had anxiety attacks cuz i pretended like nothing ever happen liek my dad was still alive n my bf is just outa town or sumthing,and i almost lost it.And its good to be sad,as long as your funtioning,better than pretending to be happy when your sad. and as long as your only sad about the situation,not your whole life,and fuck sleeping pills,smoke a joint. anti depressents are for ppl with a horrible chemical imbalance you can usually cure depression with counciling good healty food n vitamins good sleep and not sitting at home.Oh and exercising.
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Mar 03, 05
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ok read my other posts. my dad is dying of cancer. he is terminally ill. HE doesnt agree with the mdma studies any more then i do. i was pointing out the fact that people think its wrong to go through natural reactions of depression, and with holding feelings. its a part of going though death. it takes awhile to get to acceptance. i can openly admit to the fact that i have not accepted that my dad is dying. i find myself asking why hes sleeping again, then a quick reminder pops in about everything. i am in this situation. i do know what its like to be the family member, but not for one minute would i ever even begin to think i understand what its like to be told im going to die, and be told that im not going to see my children become adults, or that i have to tell my loved ones i wont be with them for long. humans are complex. no one fully understands anyone else, or anyones situation. because of this, i dont think its a good idea to be jumping on a train that says its not ok to go through depression\sadness when being terminally ill. and i think its completely natural to not be able to talk about it at first, its a pretty heavy emotion\situation to take in all at once. it takes time. and im not talking years, im talking weeks or months. what if its a 5 year old who has lukemia, and unfortunately it cant be cured. are we going to give them mdma because they are sad and cant fully understand the emotions and feelings they are having?
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Mar 03, 05
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i have read your posts or i wouldnt be posting to them ,its almost like i need to be proved wrong , like i said of course its not for 5 yr olds and 80 yr olds because like i said extasy is in the person not the fucking drug,how many times do i need to say that.a 5 yr olds mind would prbly not be affected by it ne ways and there little heart n organs arent ready for such a change.Im saing for sumone thats willing,for one, and is in the sutible shape and situation,for two,i think it would be benificial if there are problems and issuse there holding back from.also,doctor always expect the worse b4 the best...your dad might not even die,and also happinessc can cure cancer,so say if he did take it and got all his problems n issues out be might feel alot better and happier and want to beat this son of a bitch'n deieses,how the hell are you gointo get rid of is with a negative attitude,your not itll eat you alive,and thats its objective,but if you stay strong n fight off the unhappieness the deises is going to liek wtf,every thing is not going according to plan.Atleast that wat i thin,and just cuz the doctor says that hes going to die...doesnt mean he will liek i said,my friends bf went throu a wind sheild and the doctor said hell never wake up out of his coma,hes awake now and he is very cohearent and understand every thing you say e just can talk,and still i bet the doctor will say he wont improve ne further cuz he doesnt want to put up false hopes for tha family if sumthing goes wrong.
expect the worse but hope for the best,dont just expect. Last edited by BabyStylez; Mar 03, 05 at 04:40 PM.
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Mar 03, 05
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also it depends on his cancer,so wat kind is it and is it in more than one spot,also your dads at home...thats just goes to show its abviously not that full blown yet...or atleast thats the idea im getting
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Mar 03, 05
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^ do you know anything about cancer?
its not something your body can regenerate\make better. there are some cancers that can indeed be beat, however there are alot that can not. i dont want to get into details about all the varieties of cancer, but i can say just some of the few types i have been affected by. both grandparents died from it- grandma ovarian granpa abdomen, my auntie had an emergency hysterctomy due to cancer, my mom had an inoperatable tumor which radiation treated, my dad has been through colon cancer, had it removed, but it had already asphixiated into his lungs. id say i got a pretty basic understanding of cancer and how it works. and yes positivity is something that can help, and it does. however, i belive its natural positivity that adds to treatment. my family does everything it can to be as positive about the situation. but the bottom line is that you cant always be positive, and its natural to have moments of saddness. i dont think we should try to fix the grieving process.
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Mar 03, 05
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its in his lungs. its as full as i would like it to be thanks. just because he isnt in the hospital does not mean his condition isnt bad. dont assume what you dont know.
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Mar 03, 05
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i dont think you should try n fix the grieving prosses you should let it come naturally of course dont try n put it off because it will come back n bite you in the ass,did for me when i tryed to put it aside,all i was saying...fucking it already saiad it,so you know where i was going with this,also since it runs in your family im sure your dad has experience then,and it might help beat it off. i dont want to argue ne forther cuz i really dont know much about cancer except that happieness can help defeat it,ive herd of ppl that have little kids with it,and theyve taken them to disney land or to meeet there famous role model and all of a sudden there state improoved dramaticly.
and im sorry to hear about all this,i feel liek crying cuz it hits home...lol but im class so i wont lol,but liek i said its okay sad infact its so healthy just dont let it get the best of you and this will all make you better and stronger person in the end.trust me,I am. EVEN IFF ALL YOU FUCKS BEG TO DIFFER. :)
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Mar 03, 05
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im off for the weekend so you wont see my reply till monday when i get back to school,keep ya head up,and take it easy,and if you feel like balling your eyes out in your room n take a tantrum about how unfair the situation then d it youll feel so much better.
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Mar 04, 05
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True, there is a risk of depression, but 1. the cancer patient is in about the best position possible to make a quick recovery from it. They can basically sleep when they want, and would have access to whatever vitamin supplements they need, healthy food, etc. The biggest cause of post MDMA depression that I've found is not being able to do what you feel is best for you for the time. Most of us have to be at work or school and can't afford to spend 3 days in bed rebuilding seretonin. A cancer patient, or anyone treated medically for that matter, can. 2. I know it sounds bad but if the depression is too much for them, there are other drugs that could help them thru the seretonin depletion. Western medecine is ALL about suppression of pain, afterall :P So I dunno, I agree there is a risk of depression with it. But the benefits MDMA can bring to the patient WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY outweigh the risks.
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Mar 07, 05
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Great minds,think alike.
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Mar 07, 05
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Actually I don't think that you and Luke think alike. Luke really knows his shit and makes A LOT more sense than you do. Just because you're taking the same side doesn't mean you think alike.
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Mar 07, 05
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MDMA has been used with terminally ill patients in the past, it's being used now, and will continue to be used regardless of what legislation gets passed in the future.
A lot of terminally ill patients visit naturopaths, homeopaths, and many other practitioners under the Complimentary and Alternative Medicine sun. If a patient knows of a practitioner who is using this method of therapy and wants to try it, as long as they have enough knowledge to make that decision, i don't think there's anything wrong with it. The use of this medication has both positive effects, and negative effects on the patient. This decision is no one's choice to make but the patient. As for the post-mdma depression, most terminally ill patients are depressed to begin with. It's very important to come to terms with end-of-life matters when you're dying. Some people go through the normal grieving process, while others come to terms with everything quite rapidly. The outcomes are totally dependent on the individuals and families involved. Also, some terminally ill patients (like cancer patients) could argue that a comedown the next day would pale in comparisson to the side-effects of palliative chemotherapy. Afterall, the chemotherapy drugs kill normal cells along with the cancerous ones. Someone dying could have a very amazing experience with their loved ones one last time before passing on. Being "high" isn't always an artificial thing, nor is the increadible feeling one experiences while on mdma. Sometimes repressed feelings can be brought to the surface if a patient and their family chooses to try and use the drug for this purpose. I think both sides of this argument are taking a paternalistic role in this debate. When it comes down to it, someone should have the right to choose how they spend their final days on this earth. Patient autonomy should always come first. Healthcare today is moving away from the old "doctor knows best" attitude, to a philosophy of "the patient is an expert in their own disease".
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