Canada deports U.S. deserter who opposes Iraq War

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by cinist

I don't know if this is a news flash for you or not but the majority in the house of commons voted for resisters to be allowed to stay. (now tell me i don't understand the left wing agenda or something like that)
Also, polls have shown most canadians would also like for them to be given refugee status.

Cool, laws judge on public opinion? Sweet deal.

You've still never answered: Do you think he has a right to skip the line because he did what he did illegally?

I can agree with you that the war is wrong. I can see your point about soldiers having a right to declare orders wrong, although I think you are making it too simple. The morality behind military orders is always up for debate, and has been discussed at length.

But I can't believe that you would feel that he has more of a right to refuge status then other people because you are against the war. Or that his claim is valid, even though he broke the law to do it while thousands of people in far far far far worse situations follow the proper rules and regulations in a bid to get to a country where they have this choice.

[Bevvy Swift]

^thats what i was saying but apparantly somalis dont matter :(

[decypher]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

That actually cleared a few things up.

Although what was the whole Serbian thing where the States didn't declare war (although insisted they had all the protections of the Geneva treaty) and just bombed the hell out of everything.

I'm guessing that's a "don't worry you're on the security council thing".

That conflict was NATO sanctioned after the Račak massacre. This elevated the notion of Humanitarian intervention opposed to the idea of the non-use of force except in self-defense. The NATO mission is considered by some scholars to be illegal.

The US used the idea of preemptive warfare to bypass the U.N for Iraq which is an illegal war. There are many ways in which states bypass international law in their own justifications, even an entire area of study called realism.

but anyways, many deserters have used that issue of the legality of the Iraq war as the reason why they refuse to participate in it.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by cinist

Do you people honestly not see how things are playing out here? The opinions expressed on this board make it easy to understand how Bush and Harper are in office. It's a sad day and age in Canada when we have young people who think like this.

its a pretty big leap to say that when most of the people who are saying he should go back because his refugee claim is illegitimate. none of us really support the war.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by decypher

That conflict was NATO sanctioned after the Račak massacre. This elevated the notion of Humanitarian intervention opposed to the idea of the non-use of force except in self-defense. The NATO mission is considered by some scholars to be illegal.

The US used the idea of preemptive warfare to bypass the U.N for Iraq which is an illegal war. There are many ways in which states bypass international law in their own justifications, even an entire area of study called realism.

but anyways, many deserters have used that issue of the legality of the Iraq war as the reason why they refuse to participate in it.

there is also the geneva convention on genocide which most UN members are signatories of. It states that if the UN declares a certain act to be genocide then all member countries must intervene to stop it. Thats what was so significant about the war in the balkans and the current situation in darfur, since the UN has been unable to declare what is happening in darfur genocide there hasn't been much mobilisation to stop it.

[jenai]

They promise immigrants citizenship if they sign up as cannon fodder for the US Army.

It is doubtful that grunts will get psyops training, as MI guys are all vetted by the CIA or the NSA depending on what department of psyops they have potential in.

So a hacker will get vetted by NSA while the weird, creepy spooks get vetted by the CIA.

As well, psyop personnel from US MIL are interned at CNN and carefully scrutinize what gets into the news and what does not.

Ever notice how spotty the anti-war protests are? That's due to close scrunity by psyops personnel.

As well, they have asked certain anti-war protesters to leave venue before they could get positioned at any function Bush gets invited to instead of someone more politically amenable.

[NinjaBoy]

Now that we've had our morning crazy from Jenai, let's get back to the topic at hand...

[Alex]

If the USA was a 'lenient and understanding' country, at a minimum this asshat should have to pay back whatever signing bonus + salary and costs of him deserting at full. Also, he should pay back the Canadian tax payers for the est. tens of thousands of dollars his application and appeal ate up.

This guy signed up in, what, 2005? He had to know he was going to Iraq, and I suspect he never truly intended on going. It's safe to say his plan all along was to sign up, scam the bonus, and bail to Canada hoping to claim refugee status. Probably his shitty little plan to 'stick it to the man'.

I hope he's raped and beaten at his military base in Colorado.

[decypher]

I think what is really interesting about this is less to do with the individual and more to do with the u-tern in foreign policy in Canada on things like clemency, war, etc. We are now fully entrapped in Afghanistan and the war industries in Canada are benefiting nicely by our standing. That's why we can't accept any deserters. They never fully discussed the war with the public and now we are going to be pulled into further conflict as the trans-Afghanistan pipeline goes in and we are forced to deal with the geopolitical fallout from such a construction.