russia pulls out of nato

[dabbler]

And here I thought Cold War referred to an Arms Race and a bunch of threats without much fighting. Russia/Georgia is not a Cold War. Russia threatening to nuke Poland if they sign the treaty (the one they just signed) IS a cold war. Until they actually attack. Then it's just World War III when USA responds.

[ebbomega]

Everybody screams cold war because it's US vs. Russia. But that really fails to describe the situation, as the cold war had very defined boundaries. Now neither the US nor Russia have any claim to the protectorship of really any of the states since the Iron Curtain is gone. This is a nationalistic dispute, and is a lot more akin to the situation pre-WWI than post-WWII.

[Alex]

The war between Russia/Georgia started long ago.

anyone remember...

-Russia deporting ethnic Georgians
-Russia using Georgian parks for target practice with their choppers
-Russia dropping a bomb just outside of Tbilisi(that failed to detonate)(last May-ish)
-Russia encouraging, providing weapons to, and funding rebel movements in Abkhazia and South Ossetia
-Russia voluntarily sending Russian passports to rebels, so they could claim them as citizens if Georgia defended itself

How about Estonia tracing a massive computer attack on all of their systems back to Russia in retaliation for MOVING a red army statue from the center of their capital, to the Red Army cementary(suitable location...), or the protests/near riots that happened outside of the Estonian Embassy in Russia when this happened...

Or a similar attack against Lithuania a week ago(crashing their income tax filing systems) for supporting Georgia?

I could go on for dozens of pages about Russian aggression, and how the people support it due to the intense propoganda campaigns. Russian people are being told that Georgia is attempting to commit genocide on Russia, and being supported by America, Ukraine, etc. poor little Russia, all alone in this world.

Russia- Ruskaya federacia durkee y merzavkee

[brit]

Originally Posted by dabbler

And here I thought Cold War referred to an Arms Race and a bunch of threats without much fighting. Russia/Georgia is not a Cold War. Russia threatening to nuke Poland if they sign the treaty (the one they just signed) IS a cold war. Until they actually attack. Then it's just World War III when USA responds.

tell that to the Vietmanese...

[Alex]

^ermm or Korea, or Afghanistan..


But in those wars (US vs vietnam, korea and USSR vs Afghanistan) the two superpowers never directly fought. They funded the oppositions in the war to fight for them.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by Alex

-Russia encouraging, providing weapons to, and funding rebel movements in Abkhazia and South Ossetia
-

mind you this is your personal opinion because the Ossetians see themselves as a separatist movement. They want the Kremlin to recognize them as an independent state.

Georgian attack is Ossetia's 9/11: Russian maestro | International | Reuters

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Country profiles | Regions and territories: South Ossetia

[Alex]

^ya, but their is also a huge ethnic Georgian population in the area, which was larger before Russia started funding the rebels.

[ebbomega]

Vietnam was basically Americans picking up on French colonial activity actually, and had a lot more to do with Vietnamese independence from western rule (one of the things that sparked WWI) than containing communist advancement under pressure from the Russians. Hence why it's looked to as one of the biggest blunders of the Cold War (Russia themselves made this same mistake in Afghanistan).

The difference here is that there still lacks an Iron Curtain. These are just political alliances and not rigid communist vs. capitalist boundaries a la Cold War.

If all these missile defense plans start to go into action, we could see fortification of boundaries and then yes we'd be in another cold war, but the pessimist in me doesn't see that happening. I'm more worried of straightforward war.

[brit]

Originally Posted by Alex

^ermm or Korea, or Afghanistan..


But in those wars (US vs vietnam, korea and USSR vs Afghanistan) the two superpowers never directly fought. They funded the oppositions in the war to fight for them.

Which is why I hinted earlier that the real threat will be in the continued arming/training of specific nations; ie Iran.

[rawb]

CAN WE BLAME THIS ALL ON SOME ETHNIC MINORITY SOMEHOW l

[ebbomega]

I'M JUST BLAMING "INSURGENTS", THEY'RE A GREAT WAY TO PLACE BLAME ON SOMEONE THAT'S NOT ME WITHOUT SEEMING RACIST.l

[rawb]

MAN IF I WAS OVERTHROWING SOMETHING I HOPE THEY CALL ME A REVOLUTIONARY OR PART OF THE RESISTANCE OR A FREEDOM FIGHTER

INSURGENT SOUNDS LIKE HOW YOUR STOMACH FEELS AFTER TOO MUCH BUCKSLICE l

[ebbomega]

WON'T HAPPEN FROM THE PEOPLE TRYING TO PIN THEIR WOES ON YOU, THEY NEED TO MAKE YOU SOUND LIKE SOMETHING YOU'LL REGURGITATE IN ORDER FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS TO THINK IT'S OK TO CARPET BOMB YOUR HOME TERRITORY.l

HOW ABOUT "GUERILLA"? IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH OTTERS BUT OFFERS THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD DRESS LIKE A FURRY AND STILL BE FEARED.

[NinjaBoy]

I really want to watch Red Dawn now...

[rawb]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD DRESS LIKE A FURRY AND STILL BE FEARED.

[Alex]

LOL. Red Dawn, I own that movie but no longer have a VCR

WOOOOLVERIIIIIINES!

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by rawb

SRSLY, THE NEXT CHE RIGHT HERE

[mapleleaf4ever]

you're right... he would be quite the rebel...

[SEAN!]

russia was never in nato you dumb ho.

nato was made to counter russia

p.s. all ya'll mufuckahs dont know shit

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I generally trust Gwynne Dyer

Also, afaik Georgia hasn't denied that they started the conflict. All they've done is try to draw attention away from what began it and focusing instead on publicizing Russia's (over)reaction, which has been garnering the reaction from the west.

Basically, Georgia attacked while Putin was in Beijing hoping that the Olympics would provide sufficient distraction to keep Russia from bearing down their brunt force. They were wrong.

gwynne dyer is a fag, his views are too simplistic.

theres alot of history there.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

And in that game there's only one plausible winner currently.

Hint: It's neither Russia nor the US.

the cockroaches?

[SEAN!]

i think its time to do what real mufuckahs do, strap up and battle it out!

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by decypher

mind you this is your personal opinion because the Ossetians see themselves as a separatist movement. They want the Kremlin to recognize them as an independent state.

Georgian attack is Ossetia's 9/11: Russian maestro | International | Reuters

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Country profiles | Regions and territories: South Ossetia

same way the americans funded and armed pinoche, the shah, the sandinistas and a billion other groups that people point to as american transgressions.

[decypher]

Exactly. It was pointed out today that the American's had the Monroe doctrine that perceived any advance into it's backyard as hostile. Same thing with eastern Europe.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

the cockroaches?

The overpopulated regime to the south with the rising economy who's entire populous has been trained to never interrupt an opponent while he makes a mistake.

Notice who's been pretty quiet during all this. And we don't care because of some monks in Tibet.