Anti-Americanism in Canada (and on Fnk)

[Alex]

Just no. Any culture that defines themselves as being 'anti-another culture' is doomed to mediocrity and eventually failure. Look at the French.

We should be focused on our own issues. America is a good trading partner, and we're free to either stay in our own country peacefully, or travel their and explore as we so please. Look at the other super powers in the world(China, Russia) and imagine what it'd be like to have them as our closest neighbour.

[Tea]

Originally Posted by diva

Yeah. We all know that. You've posted that on this board at least half a dozen times. But thanks for the reminder.

Esi, I love you.

[M.C. BEAR]

take it from me americans are saints

[kir mokum]

yes. the french are mediocre and have failed while somehow still being one of the most relevant counties politically, economically, and especially culturally and having lasted longer than almost any other country in the world.

almost all cultures are or have been in recent history "anti-another culture". they problem lies in people not understanding why. america is anti-a-lot-of-cultures.

i'd rather be neighbours with france.

[Alex]

France is and never was a true super power. the only reason they still exist is other nations backed them up and bailed them out.

[mojo]

I would have to agree that tension between the two is nothing new. Rock it back a few hundred years to when both nations were getting started and you can see tension between the two because of slavery, the war of 1812 then U.S pussyfooting in terms of WWI, a plethora of trade and tariff beefs, the close annexation of B.C, etc. Now add what has happened within the last century and you have a relationship held together by necessity, and not much more.

It is easy to say "i like the people, but not the government" but it is the people who vote the gov. into power.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Alex

France is and never was a true super power. the only reason they still exist is other nations backed them up and bailed them out.

google 'colonization' for me will ya...keep an eye out for the word france.

[miss.myra]

ahaha mojo.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by diva

I'm surprised that number is not higher than 90%.

Those numbers do not change the fact that the USA is a democracy. They have a little under one month to vote out the current government if they so choose. They voted Bush in twice. Or rather, Bush got elected twice because most people didn't vote.

Why aren't we more worried about (and discussing) the fact that our Prime Minister has called an election before most Canadians have a chance to realize that our economy is heading toward a recession as well?

i think its relatively normal to want to discuss the outcome of an election that is going to effect the lives of people all over the world, than an election where we vote in someone slightly left or slightly right of the government we have now. there is no polarizing, major canadian issue to fight over. every party is basically promising the same things. there is not much to talk about.

as for ameri-anger... the fact that a country would vote bush, the most disapproved of president of all time since they started domestic and foreign polls, is pretty worthy of a bit of angst dont you think? i think america is at a crossroads right now and its only natural to be interested in how their election turns out. i mean, to think "i am canadian i should be focused on canadian issues more than global ones" is the kind of xenophobic thinking that makes your country hated by others.

[diva]

Originally Posted by rawb

as for ameri-anger... the fact that a country would vote bush, the most disapproved of president of all time since they started domestic and foreign polls, is pretty worthy of a bit of angst dont you think? i think america is at a crossroads right now and its only natural to be interested in how their election turns out. i mean, to think "i am canadian i should be focused on canadian issues more than global ones" is the kind of xenophobic thinking that makes your country hated by others.

Don't twist my words. I said we should be more focused on our issues right now so we can make the best decisions for our country come election time. I didn't say we shouldn't care about what's going on in the States.

[rawb]

well your point has changed a couple of times since the first post so i really don't know where you're coming from to be honest. are we on this board small people for disliking american decisions -- or are we horrible for caring about the us election when we have our own?

[diva]

Originally Posted by rawb

well your point has changed a couple of times since the first post so i really don't know where you're coming from to be honest. are we on this board small people for disliking american decisions -- or are we horrible for caring about the us election when we have our own?

What's with so many Canadians being anti-American? It's really weird. Reminds me of small man syndrome.

That was my initial post. I didn't think it was that complicated. I wasn't talking about the dislike of american decisions. Or caring about the us election. I was taking about being straight up anti-american.

Here are some quotes from an interesting article on the subject:

Before You Flee to Canada, Can We Talk? (washingtonpost.com)

I've found life as an American expatriate in Canada difficult, frustrating and even painful in ways that have surprised me. As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

More seriously, in the wake of 9/11, after the initial shock wore off, it was common to hear some Canadians voice the opinion that Americans had finally gotten what they deserved. The attacks were just deserts for years of interventionist U.S. foreign policy, the increasing inequality between the world's poorest nations and the wealthiest one on earth, and a generalized arrogance. I heard similar views expressed after Nov. 2, when Americans were perceived to have revealed their true selves and thus to "deserve" a second Bush term.

Part of what's irksome about Canadian anti-Americanism and the obsession with the United States is that it seems so corrosive to Canada. Any country that defines itself through a negative ("Canada: We're not the United States") is doomed to an endless and repetitive cycle of hand-wringing and angst. For example, Canadians often point to their system of universal health care as the best example of what it means to be Canadian (because the United States doesn't provide it), but this means that any effort to adjust or reform that system (which is not perfect) precipitates a national identity crisis: To wit, instituting co-payments or private MRI clinics will make Canada too much like the United States.

As a Canadian social advocate once told me, when her compatriots look at their own societal problems, they are often satisfied once they can reassure themselves that they're better off than the United States. As long as there's still more homelessness, racism and income inequality to the south, Canadians can continue to rest easy in their moral superiority.

Ultimately, Canadian anti-Americanism says more about Canada than it does about the United States. Because some 80 to 90 percent of this country's trade is with the United States, the reality is that Canadians need Americans to sustain their economy and thus the quality of life they value. Such dependence breeds resentment.

In "officially multicultural Canada," hostility toward Americans is the last socially acceptable expression of bigotry and xenophobia. It would be impossible to say the things about any other nationality that Canadians routinely say -- both publicly and privately -- about Americans.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by diva

What's with so many Canadians being anti-American? It's really weird. Reminds me of small man syndrome.

That was my initial post. I didn't think it was that complicated. I wasn't talking about the dislike of american decisions. Or caring about the us election. I was taking about being straight up anti-american.

maybe you need to define what anti-american is because other than a dislike of their government and their foreign policy decisions (which it seems everyone US & the world hates) i don't think many people are distinctly anti-american, and i think any anger towards the american way of life has been at the forefront in the last 8 years.

i mean, do you think people hate americans because they're american because i just don't get that from people.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

France is and never was a true super power. the only reason they still exist is other nations backed them up and bailed them out.

What..?

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Before 1943 France had the largest army in the world, with superior technology. As well as an extremely strong economy and colonies across the world. Before world war 2 France was the one of the largest powers in the world.

Even now they account for almost half of the EU's defensive spending and domestically have a strong military infrastructure and industry based almost entirely in France.

They have the fifth largest economy in the world too boot.

And technically the only reason the UK exists is due to the US directly engaging the Germans in WW2 and Russia opening a second front.

[Gusto]

^ they're also ranked 6th in terms of military strength (according to World Military Strength Ranking)

[Alex]

Ya France was powerful taking over tribes, it doesn't change the fact they never were able to win a war on their home continent.

[Tea]

God bless America...the land of cheap beer and big breakfasts

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

What..?

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Before 1943 France had the largest army in the world, with superior technology. As well as an extremely strong economy and colonies across the world. Before world war 2 France was the one of the largest powers in the world.

Even now they account for almost half of the EU's defensive spending and domestically have a strong military infrastructure and industry based almost entirely in France.

They have the fifth largest economy in the world too boot.

And technically the only reason the UK exists is due to the US directly engaging the Germans in WW2 and Russia opening a second front.

Is this the same France that got walked, inside of 2 weeks, by
Germany?

[Alex]

^ LOL. WW2 was hardly the start either. That was basically the 'trend'with France while fighting in europe.

Wasn't France also the first European Nation to lose a war against a non european, and non muslim 'tribe'?

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

Is this the same France that got walked, inside of 2 weeks, by
Germany?

Not exactly...

Frances defense was built on a series of alliances they had with other Nations surrounding Germany which weren't honored in the end. The idea was mutual defense...

As England and Russia (the two other super powers) refused to follow the agreements they had signed as Europe was being taken the French faced the fact that they would be fighting Germany alone.

In order to secure they're border the had a force in the north, and one in the south. The southern one formed the now famous Manginot line, the most advanced defensive line of it's time. Due to political reasons this line was not allowed to extend into the north. The Germans blitzkrieged through the exposed northren front and into France.

Even with the invasion of France, the French army was still active in Northern Africa as well (Until the USA defeated them, and the British fought the French fleet)

The French lost due to politics and poor leadership (The forces in the north and south were lead by too generals who hated each other). Their forces were easily a match for Germany though. There are also other factors (the invention the the telephone, widely used by Germany but not France for example).

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

^ LOL. WW2 was hardly the start either. That was basically the 'trend'with France while fighting in europe.

This is what generally happens when geographically you are in the center of Europe.

Also, they technically won WW1

Wasn't France also the first European Nation to lose a war against a non european, and non muslim 'tribe'?

Which battle? There are numerous small skirmishes between colonial forces that resulted in losses for Europeans.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ya France was powerful taking over tribes, it doesn't change the fact they never were able to win a war on their home continent.

Uh... World War 2 started in large part due to the reparations that Germany was paying France due to their surrender to the French during WW1.

You might find this interesting:

World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fritz]

GOOGLE FIGHT!!

[dj_soo]

the problem with the internet is it gives people who have no idea what they are talking about a public forum to voice their ignorant and uninformed opinions.

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ya France was powerful taking over tribes, it doesn't change the fact they never were able to win a war on their home continent.

didnt napoleon conquer most of europe?