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Dec 08, 04
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Chimeras, Cloning and Freak Human-Animal Hybrids
this is REAL news:
For those who still didnt read the freakish new genetic experiments which created hybrid animals like pigs with human blood and mice with human brain cells (imagine mice smart enough to avoid traps or rig them).  Chimeras, Cloning and Freak Human-Animal Hybrids Infowars.com Violet Jones November 23, 2004 With the United States officially abandoning its attempt to get a UN treaty banning cloning, and revelations about cloning worldwide, it is becoming obvious that the doors are about to become wide open for public cloning efforts. Not that cloning hasn't been going on all along. In November of 2001, CNN reported that a human embryo was created through cloning. Even earlier, in 1999, the BBC reported on a human hybrid clone. And these are just the efforts the public is being told about. The technology has been around for decades and human clones have already been created. Beyond that, there's the ultimately disturbing "scientific" trend of creating human-animal hybrids, or chimeras for "therapeutic" and other "important" reasons. That's mice with human brain cells and pigs with human blood -- and there are no federal guidelines in place to stop scientists from creating these freaks for whatever reasons they might claim. But don't take our word for it, take the Washington Post's in the article below. Here's an excerpt: "During one recent meeting, scientists disagreed on such basic issues as whether it would be unethical for a human embryo to begin its development in an animal's womb, and whether a mouse would be better or worse off with a brain made of human neurons.." There are programs going on across the country to create chimeras, many in tax-funded Universities, including the University of Pennsylvania's School of Medicine, which creates chimeric mice by introducing Embryonic Stem cells into early mice embryos. That's just one project of many. A simple google search on chimeric mice produces a plethora of unsettling results. And that's just mice... Last edited by maztraz; Dec 08, 04 at 02:53 PM. 
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Dec 08, 04
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they should totally make me a mini giraffe.
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Dec 08, 04
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I say, go for it! I for one welcome our new monkey overlords.
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Dec 08, 04
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better the monkeys than the machines!
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Dec 08, 04
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Human brain cells in mice is an experiment focusing on the developement and removal of stem cells outside of a human body.
With a source of stem cells, cells with the potential to become any manner of cell, science could make exponential leaps in cancer, spinal cord, and brain injury. The people behind these experiments are educated professionals testing ground breaking ideas and practices to help save millions of lives. Quit being a dip shit and use your brain for a minute.
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Dec 08, 04
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Dec 08, 04
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Your lack of depth is legendary, I'm waiting for an ad hominem.
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Dec 08, 04
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^although you argue that goat unfairly focuses on just the pros and not the cons you don't seem to really list any cons yourself beyond the assumption that everyone is going to find this "sick" or "disturbing" on some level. beyond a sort of visceral reaction to this kind of research what exactly are the reasons you are opposed to it? there are some good reasons out there to be wary of research such as this, for instance the migration of viruses across species with mixed dna, etc..., but as a committed futurist and post-humanist dreamer you won't find me complaining when i'm 65 and they grow me a new heart and lungs in a pig...personally i think the potential rewards of this kind of research far outway any risks.
^automatic on the twentyhz account
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Dec 08, 04
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Ya, there arecompanies out there doing their own thing. Ya, stem research can be abused, like anything else. And ya, Technology is a double sided sword.
Damning, because that is exactly what this post is doing, all cell research in it's beginning testing at the fear of monkey robots taking over the world is absurd. And even it is abused, there's not a damn thing you or anyone else is going to be able to do to stop it, why, because a) it won't be made public and b) no one believes paranoid internet fuckasses.
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Dec 09, 04
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The larger lesson is that the complex and multiple interactions between the inserted transgene and the chemical activity of the host animal are, for the most part, unknowable and can result in all sorts of novel and even bizarre pathologies in the creature. My point is, I don't know, you all certain as hell don't know, and if we as a society being so fiercly compartmentalized are going to rant and rave only about the pros of how technology and such secretive research is going to better our lives, not only will we find out the cons when it's too late, we're destined to do so. I could go on, but there really isn't much of a point. The belief will defend itself, most people don't want to get over their own ego, that's why Hot Karl and Goat hurl insults instead of questions. *** Goat: I don't think this thread is damning stem cell research, more over you are damning any balanced debate on the issue but not recognizing the cons. It's too late to back pedal, thanks for the obligatory ad hominem. Hot Karl: I don't even know where to start with you, a theory is a supposition, something that holds no grounds. See I have video evidence, contradictory reporting, leaks of information from whistleblowers marched out of intelligence agencies and an understanding of the laws of physics. Even after I've told you that you still go on and tote like you know better though you have made absolutely no effort at all to see if I was full of shit or if I indeed have all this material. By definition, you are the conspiracy theorist, and thanks for the bad karma. You're just one of many that will care when it's too late.
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Dec 09, 04
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there's good things and bad things about all of this
saving lifes is itself a good and a bad thing... good morally, bad in a global sense we're already facing overpopulation... what happens if everybody on earth starts living until they're 102? the planet will die so rapidly that everyone will be left gasping and wondering 'how could it have happened!?' maybe it would be a good thing if zombie rats started gnawing out peoples brains and the human race suddenly had competition... it'd teach us some humility and help us to band together for a common cause (if we were REALLY lucky) if nothing else it would help out the overpopulation problems
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Dec 09, 04
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as i see it your objections seem to be twofold: one, that it's morally wrong to cause animals suffering through the possible pathological side-effects, mutations, and other possible complications that could arise, to which i say that there is no difference between that and the use of animals to test drugs, or for any other medical or clinical study. if you know anything about legitimate clinical testing you know that there really isn't such a thing as a gratuitous animal study, approval for animal testing, in canada at least, is not granted unless there is a clear possibility of enriching scientific knowledge in some way that is then balanced against the potential for suffering. in many ways animal testing actually has more safeguards and stricter controls than human testing, just go ask UBC undergrad volunteer subjects about that. regardless, to bring up the pain that this may cause to animals is simply not a valid point, as i've said above, you can't single out one area of scientific research using animals without critizing all of them all, which means the issue is no longer recombinant gene research, but testing in general. number two you are worried about the "genie-in-the-bottle" effect, the possibility of unleashing some form of virus or mutation on the world with devastating consequences for ourselves and/or our environment. while i admit that that is a frightening possibility, in my humble opinion i think that the risk is relatively slim, and the potential rewards so great, that reward outweighs risk to such a degree in this case that to abandon research in this field would be folly. regardless, the problem here, as with genetically modified crops, is not so much the avenue of research itself, as the structures in place to police that research. i personally think that researching crops that are genetically modified to resist drought or pests, or increase harvests should be a huge priority for agriculture, as they may go a long way to eradacting world hunger. the problem is when huge corporations release crops on to the market with inadequate testing in order to make huge profits on the money they invested in r&d, and when i'm talking about adequate testing when you're talking about releasing essentially new species in to the world "adequate testing" realistically could take 20 years or more to really gauge environmental impact. the problem is not with the science, it's with the lack of proper controls.
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Dec 09, 04
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Let me get this clear:
So People are actualy thinking im basing only my negativity on to this thread..! How fare will technolgy go, how fare Viruses will keep on progressing in every possible way, this is the strict reality even we want to admit it or not...If we never put limits to it there will never be any limits!!! My point to all this is there will always be new viruses, and how fare do we need to go on Animals experimentation to please the human race... (I never supported the fact that we could experiment drugs, various ''health'' medication and other health products on Animals, ''This are living beings'') The risks are very low perhaps, but they are there and real.. I do not ignore that this might bring progress to medical health, but what more do we need to make people realize that technology is realy starting to have no limits=bad impact on us(exemple puting micro chips into kids buddy, hormones in the food..etc), I'm not saying that the professional recherchers are no pro's... Quote:
In what hands will this end one day? thats rether the question you should all be asking your selfs? Exacly we do not know...one more reason to not play with the ''fire''.. I do not base this on any fictions terms contrarly on wht some people can imagine, Quote:
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Your just replacing a other question with a other problematic, you don't know what futur will reserve you so don't be so naive, there is many probleme you ignore besides heart inplant...etc You can just conclude that you've resolve a probleme by a other..its no solution man Anyway Cancer, I don't doubt that we can have easily cancer when we know that billions of people probably eat unhealthy shit everyday and then they wonder why they are sick(besides the fact that people are sick of natural causes), ''take your own responsabilities'' its a big community probleme constructing a other one, and keeps on going like a spining wheel etc..etc..etc...We don't realise it until it becomes a real community probleme, and then we are supprise the day that something bad has happened, just open your eyes and you will realize that its there not only for our health but for ''Governmental benefits''... Last edited by maztraz; Dec 09, 04 at 08:07 AM.
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Dec 09, 04
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I think it's a general rule of thumb is that whenever scientists mess with nature, the result is never good. People are only finding out now that eating a well balanced diet is much better than downing power bars and powerades or other kinds of lab made synthetic brews. Even something as benign as salt, when artificially made in the form of NaCl and lacking all the other complexities that come in salt from the ocean or the mines, makes us unhealthy.
Look at how they tell us not to eat too much carbs!! Normally, if you harvested wheat exclusively you would take all the nutrients in the soil in no time and you would only have a few seasons before 'dust bowl' conditions set in. Basically grain has too much energy then is required and we store it up as fat. But now since we mine for oil it's possible to extract nitrites and other fertilizers to fortify the soil and we can eat grain products indefinately. We need to stop messing with nature and go back to organic farming :) Last edited by wum; Dec 09, 04 at 09:49 AM.
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Dec 09, 04
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it's a fucking joke you and other conspiracy theorists believe think wtc was taken down through some sort of u.s. government plan. it would require thousands of people to keep their mouth shut. ya know that stupid 'military 747' with no windows? the fucking thing wasn't even tested until 2003. your video evidence? it's just stupid mpegs pieced together by goofs on the net. everyone does that shit. so some armchair analyst at home is suddenly an expert on wtc? so much of your 'evidence' is anecdotal from people who have no training in that specific field. you say i come off egotistic? jesus christ buddy, every post you make has not so thinly veiled remarks regarding all this crazy super secret knowledge you have. hey newsflash, you automatically believe all these bullshit conspiracy sites who *gasp* are selling fucking "wtc:the truth" dvds. but of course anything with the word 'official' is automatically bullshit. you are making EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS. that requires EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. once again i'd like to add, this administration is apparently responsible for wtc? HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE? we all know this admin is evil, but they are also stupid and incompetent. this crazy conspiracy with at least a thousand people in on it, and they can't plant a wmd in iraq? they consistently get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, it's just that they haven't gotten punished.
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Dec 09, 04
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did you also know that jfk and lincoln have the same amount of letters in their name! and they were both assassinated! i think the same people killed them both! because coincidence = definitive proof. what a bunch of fucking idiots.
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Dec 09, 04
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If Osama Bin Laden was so smart to 'mastermind' the whole thing, don't you think he would think beyond step one? As in, wtf do we do now that we've got the world against us? They might have suicidal tendencies, but attacking the WTC only hindered their goals. The idea is absurd and assumes that they are extremely smart and stupid at the same time. This is no different than Hitler's Reichstag fire, where he blamed some Communists and swept to power. Bush is doing the same thing and increasing the scope of the government everyday via the Patriot Act and color coded flight security. This is just the first step in world wide domination. The end is nigh :)
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Dec 09, 04
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