Critics on New World order(Interviews to know more)

[maztraz]

November 11 2004
Vaccines, Bioterrorism, and September 11 Prior Knowledge
Alex Jones interviews Dr. William Deagle, MD a toxocologist who participated in classified projects on simulations of bioterror attacks with bioweapons in the late 1990s.

November 4 2004
Election 2004 Vote Fraud: Alex Jones Interviews Bev Harris
Kerry conceded rapidly despite the fact that vote fraud has been documented everywhere. Numerous examples of vote fraud are pouring in.

October 13 2004
Alex Jones Interviews Larry Pratt
Larry Pratt of Gunowners of America joined Alex to discuss his analysis of the Super Patriot Act which contains a plethora of provisions which threaten our God-given rights.

October 12 2004
Alex Jones Interviews Michael Badnarik
Badnarik is the Libertarian candidate for President. He and the Green Party candidate were arrested in St. Louis when they tried to serve the debate commission with a show cause order.

October 6 2004
Stanley Hilton's Office Ransacked
Hilton has deposed top military officials who assert that the government were complicit in the attack. Hilton returned to the show to talk about how his ofice was ransacked and files stolen.

September 27 2004
Redux: Alex Jones Interviews Stanley Hilton
Stanley Hilton is bringing a lawsuit against the US Government charging involvement in carrying out the 9/11 attacks. Hilton has deposed top military officials who assert that the government were complicit in the attack. Hilton returned to the show for a follow up interview and to take callers.

September 12 2004
Alex Jones Interviews Stanley Hilton
Stanley Hilton is bringing a lawsuit against the US Government charging involvement in carrying out the 9/11 attacks. Hilton has deposed top military officials who assert that the government were complicit in the attack.

September 2 2004
Alex Jones' RNC Report 09/02
Alex is on the ground in New York for the Republican National Convention. In this report he discusses more police brutality and talks to several 9/11 survivors at ground zero who recount how they heard bombs before the WTC towers collapsed.

August 31 2004
Alex Jones' RNC Report 08/31
Alex is on the ground in New York and discusses his confrontations with Michael Moore and David Gergen as well as widespread police brutality including cops running people over with mopeds.

July 2 2004
Michael Meacher MP Discusses 9/11
Meacher was Blair's Environment Minister until 2003. In September of last year, he wrote a lengthy piece in the Guardian, `This war on terrorism is bogus', which questioned the veracity of the official story of 9/11.

more..


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COMMENTS...

[wum]

narrow your focus

[maztraz]

Can you be more explicite???

I did ask for comments did I....

[wum]

actually, not everyone knows that 9/11 was staged. i guess that's a good place to start as any :)

[maztraz]

Originally Posted by wum

actually, not everyone knows that 9/11 was staged. i guess that's a good place to start as any :)

yeah indeed... ;)
I just want know peoples reaction on this weither you are informed on it or not.... And if I can bring something why not :)

People should feel concerned, even if some might take this as pure propaganda it all depends on how you react to current events, and thats exactly what I want to talk about...

We could talk for hours on the subject...But we can go no ferther without more evidence, and for those that don't know much about it, well its the place like any ;) you said it !

[Ragga_Wh0re]

can i please read stuff i havent already read yet?


THANX!

[maztraz]

Sure...

Bush's $6 trillion botch

Talon News | January 6, 2005

Flashback:
Bush supports group trying to "tear drown crosses" from Christian churches

The Independent | January 10, 2005

Baghdad's deputy police chief, son assassinated; car bomb in police station courtyard kills 4 officers

WorldNetDaily | January 9, 2005

U.S. forces mistakenly kill 8 Iraqis after convoy bombed

The Advertiser | January 10 2005

More soldiers on the way to combat threat of insurgents

CNN | January 10, 2005

'Britain's Abu Ghraib': troops face torture evidence in courts martial

People's Weekly | January 8, 2005

America's Death Squads

WBAY TV | January 8, 2005

if you want more I'll gladly hand you more info....

[wum]

put up that video about the pentagon attack

[Senior]

My problem with the whole WTC 9/11 conspiracy theory is that the only convincing evidence I've seen is circumstantial. In my mind that's just not enough to come back with a guilty verdict. The particular video that Wum is referring to is this one I believe http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main. While quite persuasive this counter critique easily disputes everything other than the circumstantial evidence http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/..._evidence.html

At the end of the day all I can see that would make me disbelieve the official storey is circumstantial. First off their is a historical president of the US faking terrorist attacks on US soil (operation North woods). Secondly arms manufacturers stood to tremendously benefit from a "War on Terror" in much the same way that the prison system (also private enterprise) has benefited from the "War on Drugs." My feeling on it is that like many things we really won't know what happened for sure until many years from now when all the top secret documents are declassified.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by maztraz

Sure...

Bush's $6 trillion botch

Talon News | January 6, 2005

Flashback:
Bush supports group trying to "tear drown crosses" from Christian churches

The Independent | January 10, 2005

Baghdad's deputy police chief, son assassinated; car bomb in police station courtyard kills 4 officers

WorldNetDaily | January 9, 2005

U.S. forces mistakenly kill 8 Iraqis after convoy bombed

The Advertiser | January 10 2005

More soldiers on the way to combat threat of insurgents

CNN | January 10, 2005

'Britain's Abu Ghraib': troops face torture evidence in courts martial

People's Weekly | January 8, 2005

America's Death Squads

WBAY TV | January 8, 2005

if you want more I'll gladly hand you more info....

ive read most of that poo! U SUCK!

[wum]

^ Hegelian Dialectic bro.

"The dialectic process as described by Hegel can be reduced to three parts: a recursive pattern of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. The thesis (each idea) is opposed by its antithesis and reconciled with the thesis in a synthesis (consensus), which in turn becomes a new thesis opposed by antithesis. Hegel said that history was nothing but the expression of this flux of conflicting and resolving ideas. Since every synthesis is the thesis of a new dialectic, social change is guaranteed. The process continues until society reaches the Absolute Idea: the ultimate synthesis, giving rise to no antithesis. In the context of this document, the "Absolute Idea" is world government."

Sounds vaguely familiar to our War on Terrorism doesn't?

edit: directed towards senior not goddessa

[maztraz]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

ive read most of that poo! U SUCK!

Hooo and why can't I have any good critics here....???
Sorry, but when you study on a subject, you don't just read the article and say weither you like it or not....(if you prefer the term ''gold'' and ''poo'' up to you ;) )
You read, analyse it, and then give critics, if you have questions on what I want to bring forward that is different, I'll gladly do my bests to answer you...So please stop messing around, and get a little more direct on the subject and what you want to read instead of complaning...
'''I suck''' cause I'm not the ''daily news paper'' gobbing the fake junky shit in you in every possible way...(Our world isn't just made of hearts and rainbows)???

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

In the context of this document, the "Absolute Idea" is world government."

Well you keep bringing up the idea of a "World Government" so I'll weigh in on it briefly. First off large decentralized governments can be a really good thing. It implies connectivity and co-operation. Secondly a centralized "World Government" wouldn't be able to adequately function.

As for large decentralized governments look at the EU. The nation states retain the right to maintain a standing army, and set most domestic policy. The EU does however maintain a common currency, issue a common passport, act as a free trade zone, allow free movement of citizens between the nation states, and will soon adopt a common constitution. After 1000+ years of being a war torn continent they now enjoy the highest standard of living in the World and are positioned to be the next World super power.

As for a "World Government" I'm not sure what people imagine this as exactly. Is this something based on the EU model or some sort of centralized fascist regime? First off I think if such an institution were to be created based on the EU model it would collapse and be done with. The EU model is based on shared ideals and the World just hasn't reached that point yet. If it was created as a centralized fascist regime I think it would also fail. The propaganda needed to maintain such a structure would be over whelmed by the massive amount of decentralized information. Much as the Soviet Union fell because it was to slow and archaic of an institution.

[wum]

Originally Posted by Senior

Well you keep bringing up the idea of a "World Government" so I'll weigh in on it briefly. First off large decentralized governments can be a really good thing. It implies connectivity and co-operation. Secondly a centralized "World Government" wouldn't be able to adequately function.

By adequately functioning, I assume you mean that it cannot address the needs of the people, which I agree 100%, although that’s never the intention.


And now, to make a mountain of a mole hill, but you’ve said a mouthful with this statement: First off large decentralized governments can be a really good thing. It implies connectivity and co-operation. I’m sorry, but this is exactly the mantra of the Globalist. They will argue for there to be ‘co-operation,’ our differences will have to be broken down. The very things that people as individuals draw upon for strength and identity against Tyranny like Race, Religion, and Family, the Luciferian calls an impediment to “universal brotherhood” (i.e. One World Government).

The Communist claims that religion is the opiate of society and slaughters millions of Christians. Instead of believing in the sanctity of human beings, they believe in the new state religion and so killing comes easily.

The Feminist subverts the family unit by putting men and women in competition with each other, both trying to be the lead, both stepping on each other’s toes. They dupe women into denying their femininity and usurping the masculine role. As a result, millions of women are inverted and are missing the boat with men. Rather than creating loving environments, they are aggressive and self-seeking. They need someone to create a loving environment for them. Hence the power struggle that makes "equal" relationships a constant trial.


Instead of acknowledging that men and women’s relationships are reciprocal, they both vie for ‘independence’ through endless hook-ups and thus make themselves redundant to each other.

The multi-culturalist advocates importing tens of millions who while do not know our language, customs or laws; would itself generate value, a diversity-value of otherness. When, in reply to this unreasonable claim, some speak of the national good and of the majority interest; the government’s most learned scholars find that only the ad hominem routine of saying xenophobia and racism, is available to them. To those who invoke the national interest, and that of the majority, in this dispute, the utter cream of the professoriate can think of no rational argument; but can only give their attempted diagnoses of xenophobia and a fear of tropical races.

All of these social movements, while extremely destructive, have been ushered in under selectively applied terms like “freedom,” “tolerance” and “equality.”

Originally Posted by Senior

As for large decentralized governments look at the EU. The nation states retain the right to maintain a standing army, and set most domestic policy. The EU does however maintain a common currency, issue a common passport, act as a free trade zone, allow free movement of citizens between the nation states, and will soon adopt a common constitution. After 1000+ years of being a war torn continent they now enjoy the highest standard of living in the World and are positioned to be the next World super power.

Those are nice theories, but how will a “higher standard of living” be possible when Muslim foreigners literally bleed all social programs dry, and in Malmo, Sweden alone, have an unemployment rate of 90 percent? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html) The EU is the tool to defeat a nation’s sovereignty. The populations of Western Europe have never once consented to multi-cult either through plebiscite, referendum, or public opinion, and yet this is the “official” public policy as handed down from Brussels.

The Europeans are highly wary of Islam, and yet what does the European Parliament decide? Why, open talks to make Turkey a bona fide member of the EU of course! This is a country of 80 million where fully 40 percent of them intend to immigrate to Europe if the deal goes through. And if European leaders are still in touch with reality, well, according to Turkey’s Prime Minister, Europe could pay a heavy price in continued and escalating violence from Islamic extremists if the EU rejects Turkey as a member. Let us in or we’ll blow you up! :)

Originally Posted by Senior

As for a "World Government" I'm not sure what people imagine this as exactly. Is this something based on the EU model or some sort of centralized fascist regime? First off I think if such an institution were to be created based on the EU model it would collapse and be done with. The EU model is based on shared ideals and the World just hasn't reached that point yet. If it was created as a centralized fascist regime I think it would also fail. The propaganda needed to maintain such a structure would be over whelmed by the massive amount of decentralized information. Much as the Soviet Union fell because it was to slow and archaic of an institution.

Such a world government could never be democratic that’s for sure. The only reason the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did was because of tyranny and political censorship. That’s the only way the New World Order will work.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

By adequately functioning, I assume you mean that it cannot address the needs of the people, which I agree 100%, although that’s never the intention.


And now, to make a mountain of a mole hill, but you’ve said a mouthful with this statement: First off large decentralized governments can be a really good thing. It implies connectivity and co-operation. I’m sorry, but this is exactly the mantra of the Globalist. They will argue for there to be ‘co-operation,’ our differences will have to be broken down. The very things that people as individuals draw upon for strength and identity against Tyranny like Race, Religion, and Family, the Luciferian calls an impediment to “universal brotherhood” (i.e. One World Government).

The Communist claims that religion is the opiate of society and slaughters millions of Christians. Instead of believing in the sanctity of human beings, they believe in the new state religion and so killing comes easily.

The Feminist subverts the family unit by putting men and women in competition with each other, both trying to be the lead, both stepping on each other’s toes. They dupe women into denying their femininity and usurping the masculine role. As a result, millions of women are inverted and are missing the boat with men. Rather than creating loving environments, they are aggressive and self-seeking. They need someone to create a loving environment for them. Hence the power struggle that makes "equal" relationships a constant trial.


Instead of acknowledging that men and women’s relationships are reciprocal, they both vie for ‘independence’ through endless hook-ups and thus make themselves redundant to each other.

The multi-culturalist advocates importing tens of millions who while do not know our language, customs or laws; would itself generate value, a diversity-value of otherness. When, in reply to this unreasonable claim, some speak of the national good and of the majority interest; the government’s most learned scholars find that only the ad hominem routine of saying xenophobia and racism, is available to them. To those who invoke the national interest, and that of the majority, in this dispute, the utter cream of the professoriate can think of no rational argument; but can only give their attempted diagnoses of xenophobia and a fear of tropical races.

All of these social movements, while extremely destructive, have been ushered in under selectively applied terms like “freedom,” “tolerance” and “equality.”
Those are nice theories, but how will a “higher standard of living” be possible when Muslim foreigners literally bleed all social programs dry, and in Malmo, Sweden alone, have an unemployment rate of 90 percent? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html) The EU is the tool to defeat a nation’s sovereignty. The populations of Western Europe have never once consented to multi-cult either through plebiscite, referendum, or public opinion, and yet this is the “official” public policy as handed down from Brussels.

The Europeans are highly wary of Islam, and yet what does the European Parliament decide? Why, open talks to make Turkey a bona fide member of the EU of course! This is a country of 80 million where fully 40 percent of them intend to immigrate to Europe if the deal goes through. And if European leaders are still in touch with reality, well, according to Turkey’s Prime Minister, Europe could pay a heavy price in continued and escalating violence from Islamic extremists if the EU rejects Turkey as a member. Let us in or we’ll blow you up! :)
Such a world government could never be democratic that’s for sure. The only reason the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did was because of tyranny and political censorship. That’s the only way the New World Order will work.

I'm awake right now because I'm sick and couldn't sleep... in other words if I actually write down my knee jerk response to this I'm going to come off a little harsh.

The nicest way I can put it is this. If you ever so much as make a semi realistic claim, just once, I'll be the first in line to buy you a beer.

[mapleleaf4ever]

/repetitive and annoying political thread

[wum]

Originally Posted by Senior

I'm awake right now because I'm sick and couldn't sleep... in other words if I actually write down my knee jerk response to this I'm going to come off a little harsh.

The nicest way I can put it is this. If you ever so much as make a semi realistic claim, just once, I'll be the first in line to buy you a beer.

boo-urns!

try to indulge this discussion for a bit. just pick a point, we'll narrow the focus. i spent a good half an hour writing out that long ass rant. don't tell me that the West is committing suicide and heading towards a conglomerate power bloc is completely organic.

if you're knee jerk response is "tin foil hat ROFLZMAO!!!1" I was hoping we would be past that. Think HEGELIAN DIALECTIC. It's not just a footnote in a book. It's how the world works.

Hitler did it with the Reichstag fire, and it continues today.

Edit: I realize now why it's such a stretch for you. You ask yourself, "how would this benefit the people?" The whole point is that the people at the top dont' give a shit about the people.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

By adequately functioning, I assume you mean that it cannot address the needs of the people, which I agree 100%, although that’s never the intention.

I was speaking theoretically. How do you know what the intentions were and will be in the future of an organization that doesn't exist?

Originally Posted by wum

And now, to make a mountain of a mole hill, but you’ve said a mouthful with this statement: First off large decentralized governments can be a really good thing. It implies connectivity and co-operation. I’m sorry, but this is exactly the mantra of the Globalist. They will argue for there to be ‘co-operation,’ our differences will have to be broken down. The very things that people as individuals draw upon for strength and identity against Tyranny like Race, Religion, and Family, the Luciferian calls an impediment to “universal brotherhood” (i.e. One World Government).

This statement is so backwards I hardly know where to start. First off the point of a decentralized government is to allow as much local decision making as possible. So no, it's not meant to break down people's difference's. As for you identifying this as a way to break down people's strength to fight tyranny you have provide no evidence.

Originally Posted by wum

The Communist claims that religion is the opiate of society and slaughters millions of Christians. Instead of believing in the sanctity of human beings, they believe in the new state religion and so killing comes easily.

What does this have to do with what we are discussing? Is the NWO going to be Communists? The EU certainly is not.

Originally Posted by wum

The Feminist subverts the family unit by putting men and women in competition with each other, both trying to be the lead, both stepping on each other’s toes. They dupe women into denying their femininity and usurping the masculine role. As a result, millions of women are inverted and are missing the boat with men. Rather than creating loving environments, they are aggressive and self-seeking. They need someone to create a loving environment for them. Hence the power struggle that makes "equal" relationships a constant trial.

WTF are you talking about. This has nothing to do with this discussion. Asides from that you ZERO understanding of what feminism is about.

Originally Posted by wum

Instead of acknowledging that men and women’s relationships are reciprocal, they both vie for ‘independence’ through endless hook-ups and thus make themselves redundant to each other.

Again you're completely off topic. Again you provide no supporting evidence.

Originally Posted by wum

The multi-culturalist advocates importing tens of millions who while do not know our language, customs or laws; would itself generate value, a diversity-value of otherness. When, in reply to this unreasonable claim, some speak of the national good and of the majority interest; the government’s most learned scholars find that only the ad hominem routine of saying xenophobia and racism, is available to them. To those who invoke the national interest, and that of the majority, in this dispute, the utter cream of the professoriate can think of no rational argument; but can only give their attempted diagnoses of xenophobia and a fear of tropical races.

Please read this statement, edit it, and try to make sense. I'm not trying to be a jerk but it's completely incoherent.

Originally Posted by wum

Originally Posted by wum

All of these social movements, while extremely destructive, have been ushered in under selectively applied terms like “freedom,” “tolerance” and “equality.”
Those are nice theories, but how will a “higher standard of living” be possible when Muslim foreigners literally bleed all social programs dry, and in Malmo, Sweden alone, have an unemployment rate of 90 percent? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html) The EU is the tool to defeat a nation’s sovereignty. The populations of Western Europe have never once consented to multi-cult either through plebiscite, referendum, or public opinion, and yet this is the “official” public policy as handed down from Brussels.

Social movements are just that and are not the work of a government. The fact that they are official policy simply reflects a well run government that is representative of it's people. The main problem I have is this. You claim these policies to be and I quote "extremely destructive" yet they are the policies of the best place to live in the World. The EU is not a utopia by an stretch of the imagination but it is the best place to live in the World. They have the strongest currency, the largest economy, some of the lowest rates of crime/imprisonment, the longest life expectancy, an excellent ratio of savings versus debt and the list does go on. Whether or not you like multiculturalism it works and as far as I can tell you don't even know what it is. Please show me an EU wide poll suggesting that a majority doesn't support the EU as an entity or multi culturalism as a policy. You won't find one.

Originally Posted by wum

The Europeans are highly wary of Islam, and yet what does the European Parliament decide? Why, open talks to make Turkey a bona fide member of the EU of course! This is a country of 80 million where fully 40 percent of them intend to immigrate to Europe if the deal goes through. And if European leaders are still in touch with reality, well, according to Turkey’s Prime Minister, Europe could pay a heavy price in continued and escalating violence from Islamic extremists if the EU rejects Turkey as a member. Let us in or we’ll blow you up! :)
Such a world government could never be democratic that’s for sure. The only reason the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did was because of tyranny and political censorship. That’s the only way the New World Order will work.

[/quote]
Again please show me an EU wide poll that shows a majority of Europeans are "wary" of Islam. As for Turkey joining the EU that is a very complex and separate discussion. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4103397.stm for some accurate information regarding that situation. The reason the EU could pay a heavy price for not allowing Turkey to join the EU is that it would be a huge victory for extremists and a loss for moderates. You're claim that the EU is being threatened with terrorism as a lever to gain entrance to the EU is simply false.

Then at the end of this paragraph you state that and I quote "The only reason the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did was because of tyranny and political censorship." Are you seriously trying to explain the collapse of the Soviet Union in one sentence? Then in the next sentence you claim that the only way the NWO will work is if it's modeled after the Soviet Union...

If you want to have a reasonable debate pick a topic and stick to it. Also try doing some research, just as a suggestion try looking at Eurostat's website (the official statistics page of the EU) located at http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/porta..._schema=PORTAL

p.s. Fox News is not a reliable source for information.

[wum]

okay, i ran with that one. it's one of my faults as a human being :(

the communism and other stuff notwithstanding, do you honestly believe that the inclusion of Turkey is a good idea?

Before i go off topic again, we must use the Hegelian dialectic.

First, the bad idea of asking Turkey to join. You and I are layman on the subject, although I've been to Europe and the situation is not pretty, but let's look at what Ghaddafi, the leader of a Muslim country, has said: "As far as the Islamic world is concerned -- including the Islamic extremists, even bin Laden -- they're rejoicing over the entry of Turkey in the European Union. This is their Trojan horse."

Again that's not my assertion. Just like my first link I gave, it's not ME who claims that Turkey uses terrorism as leverage, but the Prime Minister himself! If you don't believe the newslinks I give you then I really can't argue someone who refuses to see.

The issue is not complex at all. Germany has an unemployment rate hovering around 7 percent, and their Muslim population is disproportionately dependent on social welfare (as in the other countries). Why then, would they consider taking in millions more when it can only lower wages and cause more social volatility?

If 'multi-cult' is so embraced as you say, what explains Mosques being set on fire in Holland? Why should there be laws that prevent criticism of Islam because it might incite 'racial or religious hatred'? The truth doesn't need violence. What explains the rise of Far Right groups who are promptly made illegal by the superior courts? Perhaps they are afraid that they will win?

My point is that the EU is corrupt to the core. There's a method to the madness. They foment a problem, and their 'corrective' measures leads to more bureaucracy and governmental intervention, always creeping further towards the Absolute Idea.

Just look at how the US hypocritically talks about 'homeland security' while having the most porous borders in the world. Hell, Bush even talks about giving 10+ million illegals Amnesty and driver's licenses! Of course the catch is, the only way to stay safe from "terrorists" is "national ID cards."

hmm... it's the same story in Europe.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

the communism and other stuff notwithstanding, do you honestly believe that the inclusion of Turkey is a good idea?

I don't have a solid position on the question yet. At this point negotiations haven't even started and the whole thing is still theoretical. I've heard various different proposals and some of them have sounded workable. In addition their is a lot to be gained from admitting Turkey to the EU if it is done right. The best sounding proposal I heard would see a gradual 10 year integration program based on Turkey reaching certain goals along the way. The main benefit for the West of having Turkey join the Eu is that it would cement it as a secular, liberal democracy. As it stands forces within Turkey would like to see it turn into a fundamentalist Islamic regime.

Originally Posted by wum

Before i go off topic again, we must use the Hegelian dialectic.

First, the bad idea of asking Turkey to join. You and I are layman on the subject, although I've been to Europe and the situation is not pretty, but let's look at what Ghaddafi, the leader of a Muslim country, has said: "As far as the Islamic world is concerned -- including the Islamic extremists, even bin Laden -- they're rejoicing over the entry of Turkey in the European Union. This is their Trojan horse."

Again that's not my assertion. Just like my first link I gave, it's not ME who claims that Turkey uses terrorism as leverage, but the Prime Minister himself! If you don't believe the newslinks I give you then I really can't argue someone who refuses to see.

Gaddafi is still listed as a state sponsors of terrorism by the U.S. Are you really going to take him at face value with this sort of statement? Do you think he might have any underlying agenda in stating this? Beyond that he doesn't provide any supporting rational to back up his point other claiming to speak on behalf of the "Islamic World" and Bin Laden.

Originally Posted by wum

The issue is not complex at all. Germany has an unemployment rate hovering around 7 percent, and their Muslim population is disproportionately dependent on social welfare (as in the other countries). Why then, would they consider taking in millions more when it can only lower wages and cause more social volatility?

Lets get down to business here. Get some statistics here or drop it. I want concrete information that you should have no problem finding on Eurostat or on http://www.destatis.de/e_home.htm. My bet is that the majority of the people using welfare services in Germany are the poor people.

Originally Posted by wum

If 'multi-cult' is so embraced as you say, what explains Mosques being set on fire in Holland? Why should there be laws that prevent criticism of Islam because it might incite 'racial or religious hatred'? The truth doesn't need violence. What explains the rise of Far Right groups who are promptly made illegal by the superior courts? Perhaps they are afraid that they will win?

Just because the U.S. has some white supremacist groups like the KKK does that mean all Americans are racist? Just because Canada has anti hate/discrimination laws does it mean all Canadians are racists homophobes? As I've said the EU is not utopia but it is the best place in the World to live, again this does not mean that they don't have any problems. Please find me any statistical evidence to suggest that any more than a fringe minority of the EU support your anti Muslim views. My best guess is that you might be able to find about a 1-4% support EU wide and up to 10% in a single country.

Originally Posted by wum

My point is that the EU is corrupt to the core. There's a method to the madness. They foment a problem, and their 'corrective' measures leads to more bureaucracy and governmental intervention, always creeping further towards the Absolute Idea.

It's this kind of comment that completely cuts you down at the knees. You make wild and slanderous accusations over and over with no supporting evidence. If you did enough digging I'm sure you could find an example of corruption within the EU government but that wouldn't even come close to proving your point. In case you still don't understand the EU doesn't so to say have a core. It's a group of nation states that initially decide to act co-operatively economically. Over the last 50 years that co-operation has lead to increased social harmonization. They are now debating the ratification of an EU wide constitution. For a brief outline see the following, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

Originally Posted by wum

Just look at how the US hypocritically talks about 'homeland security' while having the most porous borders in the world. Hell, Bush even talks about giving 10+ million illegals Amnesty and driver's licenses! Of course the catch is, the only way to stay safe from "terrorists" is "national ID cards."

hmm... it's the same story in Europe.

Completely off topic!!!

[wum]

You're not using the Hegelian Dialectic! :(

I use the US example because like in Europe they are courting danger and the only way to rectify the problem is more government intervention (i.e. taking away guns, suspension of civil rights, national ID cards, etc.)

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

^ Hegelian Dialectic bro.

"The dialectic process as described by Hegel can be reduced to three parts: a recursive pattern of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. The thesis (each idea) is opposed by its antithesis and reconciled with the thesis in a synthesis (consensus), which in turn becomes a new thesis opposed by antithesis. Hegel said that history was nothing but the expression of this flux of conflicting and resolving ideas. Since every synthesis is the thesis of a new dialectic, social change is guaranteed. The process continues until society reaches the Absolute Idea: the ultimate synthesis, giving rise to no antithesis. In the context of this document, the "Absolute Idea" is world government."

Sounds vaguely familiar to our War on Terrorism doesn't?

edit: directed towards senior not goddessa

I don't care what sort of logical structure you want to use so long as it's well researched and thought out.

As for this paragraph you go through the basic structure and reach a conclusion without any supporting evidence... sounds vaguely familiar doesn't it?

[wum]

Originally Posted by Senior

I don't care what sort of logical structure you want to use so long as it's well researched and thought out.

As for this paragraph you go through the basic structure and reach a conclusion without any supporting evidence... sounds vaguely familiar doesn't it?

fair enough. back to the conspiracy forums.. :)

[maztraz]

Originally Posted by Senior

My problem with the whole WTC 9/11 conspiracy theory is that the only convincing evidence I've seen is circumstantial. In my mind that's just not enough to come back with a guilty verdict. While quite persuasive this counter critique easily disputes everything other than the circumstantial evidence

At the end of the day all I can see that would make me disbelieve the official storey is circumstantial. First off their is a historical president of the US faking terrorist attacks on US soil (operation North woods). Secondly arms manufacturers stood to tremendously benefit from a "War on Terror" in much the same way that the prison system (also private enterprise) has benefited from the "War on Drugs." My feeling on it is that like many things we really won't know what happened for sure until many years from now when all the top secret documents are declassified.

Yes, I feel that alot of people that I speak with has a similar way to see what happened on september 2001 and before...

So now the first thing that we speak on mosts of those interviews is global strategy, indeed if evidence is to limited of what happened near pentagon crash area and where the plain has passed on 9/11 direction the pentagon
(We speak alot about it on the first interview if Im not rong,
that most of the video cameras filming around the pentagon area was taken), and if theories are as much of science-fiction thing, then we have to start looking at this on a other floor and stay aware of what is happening elsewhere...

''Strategy'', strategies need years and years of planing, testing and tryals depending on how big is the surface on what we are gonna use the strategy....We also speak about it in the firsts interview..
When you robe a bank for exemple you don't just plan this a few days before the robery, it is months and months of work, you need obviously always a stategy, you need to prepare mentaly, you have to prepare the equipement, you need to find a way for after the robery you don't get caught and leave the minimum evidence....etc.etc..etc
But We all know that the prefect crime does not exists, and that is why we need to keep looking for clues....

Just imagine how complex this is, its like a great big wall over protected
and is a complete threat for people like AlexJones, the only way you will be able to see behide that wall is by finding someone that is behind that wall to open you a door or even give you a key....etc..etc
Videos like this can be very instructive
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk , but it is only a very small holl into the wall, and you need more faces of the wall to really know what is going on, on the other side of that wall....

For those that havn't seen it, http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/190704greatillusion.htm its time.....It can be really confusing for some of you, but it gives you a idea of what is strategy...

[Ragga_Wh0re]

maztraz buddy guy dood,dont speak to me like im a fucking moron.
Id like to read shit I havent already fucking read which means "TELL ME SOMETHING I DONT FUCKING KNOW" Thanx :)

my standpoint on the nwo is that the shits a gwaaaaaan it has been for some time now and theres pretty much fuck all we can do about it :)

so lets all just R-A-V-E until our untimely demise yes?