is whiteness an ethnic identity?

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

What is the use in having no pride in where you come from? I certainly don't just want to be another 'white canadian'.

but as far as i'm concerned, where i come from is...here. my family has no traditions or culture from our very far back european background. who says i have to have pride in that european background if i don't identify at all with it?

and what does 'another white canadian' mean? and why would it not be good to think of myself as just a white canadian? why is that not an acceptable ethnicity?

[wum]

^ it gives you a sense of history and continuity by the accomplishments of your ancestors and kin, mang :)

[wum]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

It's all about your descent, yo.


I could just be a white girl, but I'll always identify myself with my background which is Scottish/Northern European.

i dig the "black irish" look. it seems very localized to the western Norway/Glasgow region. like lara flynn boyle :happy:

[DJ Ponz]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

this whole paper has allowed me to look at things i never would have seen before. like i was reading this one article on 'white privilege'. so basically, all the privileges that white people enjoy in our society that we don't even realize we get most of the time, just because we're white.

one of the really interesting ones was band-aids that are labelled 'flesh' coloured are made in a peachy colour for white skin. there aren't any black or brown band-aids that are labelled 'flesh' coloured.

Ya I've read that paper too - but I'll be damned if I remember who wrote it - it's obviously a popular piece. Band-Aid has since mass-produced clear band-aids. I agree that there are white privileges, and you can really see them when you travel to non-white places, but I think the more important question is what to do with it? Resist, try to balance power relations, exploit to benefit all, exploit to benefit self? These are no easy task, and they raise moral and ethical questions. It's one thing to identify problems, it's another to solve them.

The question you raise is an interesting one I think - because as it stands, I'm the only one who's voted 'no'. The reason I think, is semantics really; as many have pointed out, 'white' is a generalization of multiple ethnicities, so no, it's not an ethnic identity.

There's another paper you may have read about an American-born asian feminist who was asked "Where are you from?" - the asker was trying to determine ethnicity, but because whiteness was the norm in the United States, they didn't conceptualize that she was simply American. As it turned out, her family had been in America far longer than the person asking.

I'm first generation Canadian (English/Irish), but in the next hundred years, it won't make a lick of difference where my roots are. Globalism is going to eat us all up before you know it.

[lou_belle]

My ancestory is from Sweden, Norway and Scotland...I would never call myself canadian...it's actually never even crossed my mind. Canada seems to have ties to people of darker ethnic groups..natives are really the only ones that are truly canadian~

[*STARFISH*]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

ethnic grouping:

a collection of people distinguished, by others or by themselves, primarily on the basis of cultural characteristics (common language, customs, religion, etc..)

if this is true, i dont think you could call "whiteness" an ethnic identity.
theres a huge cultural difference between white canadians and white americans (canadians and americans in general.)
there are many different cultures, languages, and religions in europe, most of which is white... but each country/general area has their own ethnic identity.
i dont really think there is such thing as 'white canadians', being canadian is being canadian. (and seperately native canadian)
and being canadian means speaking english and/or french, following customs etc.. not just being here, living on canadian soil.
no matter what colour you may be.
(i hope that made sense.. lol)

[wum]

^ i think most people have a hyphenated Canadian identity, i.e. "Chinese-Canadian" "Indo-Canadian"

[*STARFISH*]

Originally Posted by wum

^ i think most people have a hyphenated Canadian identity, i.e. "Chinese-Canadian" "Indo-Canadian"

true. this is why they are _____(insert race here)-canadians, not canadians.
they live here, but link themselves more culturally with their _____(insert race here) background.
thats not to say that they havent adapted to some canadian customs, but you can definatly tell that they are proud of their _____(insert race here) heritage and consider themselves to be just as _____(insert race here) as they are canadian.

edit: my grammar sux0rs

[-ff-]

Originally Posted by wum

^ i think most people have a hyphenated Canadian identity, i.e. "Chinese-Canadian" "Indo-Canadian"

'english-canadian?'

Don't forget our life long constitutional identity crisis. This is canada afterall.

[wum]

Originally Posted by -ff-

'english-canadian?'

Don't forget our life long constitutional identity crisis. This is canada afterall.

ya, i guess it's only necessary when you travel abroad, like backpacking in Europe.

if you're white, saying "Canadian" "American" or "Australian" is a satisfactory answer if they ask where you're from.

If not, then you're an "Austlander" and they usually press further and then you have give that hyphenated answer i.e. "chinese-canadian"

[-ff-]

I dont think most 'chinese canadians' would identify themselves when traveling as 'chinese-canadians'. They would just say that they were canadian.

[Moon]

what really got me thinking about this topic was a webpage i came across where i was asked what my ethnicity was and was given these choices to choose from:

Korean/Japanese
Chinese
Black/African
East Indian
Latin/Hispanic
Middle Eastern
Native American
Pacific Islander
Northern European
Southern European
Eastern European
Other

i had no idea what to choose out of that list, so i just put myself as other. but it really got me thinking.

thats really interesting. because alot of the time, you can tell the difference between a chinese person and a korean person. i can personally almost tell the difference between japanese and korean people but both are very similar. i guess this whole topic really comes down to coming up with a really detailed definition of ethnicity.

on top of my head right now thinking about this.... if i broke it down into 3 major categories of ethnicity, it would be race, food, and language. Race is the obvious one, but food and language are also components of culture. i've always believed that what you eat is what you are, the language you speak best defines the biggest part in you. food because of the ethic nutritional values, flavour preferences, what kind of staples one eats, what kind of meats, spices, vegetables, wines, cheeses, preserved foods exist in the culture... maybe thats why north americans are generally physically larger than asians who live in somewhere like thailand.

i've got a strange theory that i've never really looked into in detail but i plan on one day... but as for language, i think the way you talk and move your jaw and tongue in the process shapes your complexion. haha maybe it's a far fetched idea but if you think about it don't you think so?

interesting topic =)

Originally Posted by Silverwinged

Define ethnic grouping.

I mean, I think that white people ARE an ethnic grouping... (we all came from Europe after all) Therefore everyone in Canada has had family members that have immigrated here...

See where I'm trying to go with this?

you're talking race

there is the uniform canadian ethnic group i guess... that likes maple syrup, speaks both english and french, and are generally white.... although new canadian citizens from different races are given canadian passports every month

[Moon]

maybe another part that separates people into different ethnic groups takes a certain number of years passing on genes generation after generation. that would be an interesting archeological and biological study.

[Moon]

hehe but as far as the actual topic being discussed about whiteness, i wouldn't call it an ethnic group... based on my breakdown of race, food and language....

[acidic_liquid]

I agree with Myra. It's all about where you came from.

I came from the Philippines, but I've been here half my life. The culture here has become MY culture. Now if we're saying that ethnicity is basically the culture that we have, then would you say I'm white?

I'm a Canadian citizen but I don't call myself white (white-washed yes, but not white). Culture has a lot to do with identity, but not necessarily ethnicity.

The same goes for "White" people in Canada. I don't consider "white" an ethnicity. I think it's just people being lazy and just calling someone that. It's interesting, though. When I ask a friend what nationality someone is, they'll just say white. I woudln't be satisfied with this answer because I can't imagine what they look like from only that info, so I'll ask if they were Irish, Scottish, English, etc., and no one ever really knows. People just get tired of specifying, I guess.

White isn't an ethnic identity, it's a generalization.

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Well we've got White People, but there are also sub-groups to that. Just like there's Asians... but Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese etc. So why would we be any different?

I think this is a categorical mistake. "White" is not the same as Asians.

There isn't a continent called Whiteland.

I'm guessing Europeans, but Spanish people aren't white. Hmmm come to think of it. East Indians are Asians but no one really includes them. When one says Asian, most of the time people picture the Chinese.

I guess it's just how the worlds evolved.

Bleh. This would be an interesting course to take.

[rawb]

im canadian, i can't identify with my white 'brothers' since i don't share a struggle with them. im the least opressed demographic in the free world.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by k-pryde

maybe another part that separates people into different ethnic groups takes a certain number of years passing on genes generation after generation. that would be an interesting archeological and biological study.

actually if you want to know something interesting humans are mostly genetically identical. race is mainly a social construction that has no real actual base in biology. they've proved this many times by taking DNA samples and comparing them with members of different races...you're actually more likely to find genetic differences more often between members of the same 'race' than different ones.

the only real dividers between the races are the very superficial lines that can be drawn using hair, eye and skin colour. otherwise we're pretty much all the same. the idea of different human 'races' is not one founded in biology, but one that we have created over time.

[Jen-E-03]

I dunno...i consider myself a canadian...but not a "white canadian", and actually I prefer saying I've got Irsih background then saying I'm a Canadian. Canada is the best country ever, but I like to identify wiht my Irish roots.

[diva]

Originally Posted by rawb

im canadian, i can't identify with my white 'brothers' since i don't share a struggle with them. im the least opressed demographic in the free world.

rawb gets it
this is a total aside, but i was having a conversation with my girlfriend (who's Finnish by background) about whether or not my decision to move to a place like texas would be influence by its ethnic diversity

she also asked me if i still experienced any form of racism "nowadays"
and i said "definitely"

it's subtle, but it's there.
glaringly so, everyday.

that's my woe is me i'm a black female rant thingie.

[esoter1c]

Actually The WhiteHead Biomedical Research Institute of Boston Mass mapped the human genome and has proven that all races differ quite a bit.

Compare a Scandinavian with a Nigerian, Scandinavians have 7 times less diseases.

So there are differences, doesn't mean we can't get along.

[diva]

^ ok, but is the reason why they have less disease due to environmental and socioeconomic factor?

edit: that's like saying that people living on vancouver's downtown eastside have 7 times more diseases than people living in West Van

you need to be more critical of facts you read

also, i'm not even going to bother looking into the scientific reputation of the institute you made reference to.

[*STARFISH*]

interesting...
i heard something similiar to what jake said in one of my classes...

Originally Posted by Sidekick

they've proved this many times by taking DNA samples and comparing them with members of different races...you're actually more likely to find genetic differences more often between members of the same 'race' than different ones.

apparently japanese people are more genetically similar to scottish and native australians than any other asian race.

[lou_belle]

can we all agree that there is a difference in the genetics of each race..
good, now continue..
DO IT....just DO IT.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

that's actually one of the things that was discussed in class. if you take the question another way...what about an asian family that has been in canada for so long that they do not identify with their asian culture anymore...would you deny them the ability to say that they are canadian?

for example, colin powell has both black and irish ancestry...if he were to identify with his irish ancestry and none of his black ancestry is it still right to call him black? or are you then just labelling him under 'race' because of his colour?

edit: i'm not sure that came out clear. this stuff is like philosophy of ethnicity. :s

very interesting question. I'm chinese/irish and it's weird because i don't identify with either. I don't speak any other languages or do anything uniquely culturally linked to either. Another question, what is white Canadian anyways? When people think of Canadian culture, they think Beer and hockey. So is that being Canada? IMO, people who assimilate into Canadian or American life tend to lose there identity. Besides the ethnic subgroups who stick together and cling to there roots/language, alot of people just become a part of this culture of widely accepted ideals. A very generic life.