Do patents help or hinder the development of society?

[wum]

In a totally free market libertarian society, would the fact that the government is not able to enforce patents or copyrights a hindrance or help to the development of society?

For example, say you developed a new technology that made car engines ten times more fuel-efficient. Currently, the government would grant you a patent, which more or less enforces a monopoly on this technology and you become rich and your product’s cost is unnaturally bloated because of it.

It figures that you should have a patent since it may have cost you billions to develop, but I was thinking about open source software (Linux) where everything is out in the open and people are free to copy and add their own ideas with no patents to infringe upon. Certainly this cuts through the development costs and you don’t have someone hogging all the wealth at the end.

Do you think it could work?

[mapleleaf4ever]

Nope, I don't like that idea. If you invent something why should someone else rip it off and make money off of your idea?

[stringbeans]

queue another open source debate

[wum]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Nope, I don't like that idea. If you invent something why should someone else rip it off and make money off of your idea?

truf. then again there's something very wrong with the idea that someone like Britany Spears or Michael Jackson is worth hundreds of millions of dollars (intellectual property).

Or how the top 200 CEO's in the world have half the world's wealth.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by wum

truf. then again there's something very wrong with the idea that someone like Britany Spears or Michael Jackson is worth hundreds of millions of dollars (intellectual property).

Or how the top 200 CEO's in the world have half the world's wealth.

What's wrong with profiting off of something you've done? Just because you don't like the person doesn't mean they shouldn't reap the benefits of their creativity. (or lack thereof) If you were one of the top 200 CEO's I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune with a Mimosa in your hand on the back deck of your Yacht.

[ƒORM]

Its a terrible name in the medical world. India is having a huge discussion right now about enforcing new laws that could ban the creation of generic drugs. This would leave millions of patients stuck with giant medical bills since the cost of brand name drugs can be 10 times the price of generic ones.

[dabbler]

isn't this, in reality, a communism thread?

[wum]

who wouldn't want to be rich, but we're talking about the extreme concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. It's not like they worked hard or were innovative everyday of their lives to have this massive advantage over everyone else. Rather, they invent one thing, slap a patent on it, and monopolize the wealth.

The guy who patented the idea of Tetra Pak® where you could drink juice out of a carton is now worth $7.7 Billion for fuck's sake. that's obscene.

In a true free market, this guy would have done well for his little lemonade stand and probably live somewhat better than the other lemonade vendors.

Instead, he's now a multi-billionaire with the coporate leverage to crush all the little competitors.

[mapleleaf4ever]

That's the point of Capitalism. Make more money than the next Guy. Some succeed, the rest become bitter Liberals. :)

[wum]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

That's the point of Capitalism. Make more money than the next Guy. Some succeed, the rest become bitter Liberals. :)

but wouldn't you rather live in a society where you had hundreds of little and competitive Mom N' Pop manufacturers, rather than a huge monolithic corporation that ran everything and concentrated the wealth in the hands of a few? And the shit would be cheaper too.

[dabbler]

like i said^^^^communist.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Nope. I can always find a competitive Product elsewhere if I want to pay less. Look at Coca-Cola... there's Presidents Choice etc. You don't have to pay full price unless you really want to or if you're buying really specialized products.

[wum]

Originally Posted by dabbler

like i said^^^^communist.

wtf are you talking about

[Sniper]

In a way I feel patents help the developement of society in that they allow for more original ideas to develope because people can't rip off other peoples ideas and inventions causeing more people to think out side of the box and develope thier own ideas

however they can also hinder the developement of society in that they prevent people from taking one persons idea and improving on it or changing it alittle and giving it a whole new spectrum for what it can do

[cubed]

Originally Posted by ƒORM

Its a terrible name in the medical world. India is having a huge discussion right now about enforcing new laws that could ban the creation of generic drugs. This would leave millions of patients stuck with giant medical bills since the cost of brand name drugs can be 10 times the price of generic ones.

Exactly.

The pharmacuetical industry is notorious for hindering the progress of drugs that could be readily available to those in need.

There would be a lot less deaths due to HIV and various other life threatening diseases if the doors were open.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by stringbeans

queue another open source debate

No doubt

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

but wouldn't you rather live in a society where you had hundreds of little and competitive Mom N' Pop manufacturers, rather than a huge monolithic corporation that ran everything and concentrated the wealth in the hands of a few? And the shit would be cheaper too.

Heh. Sure. Because economy has always been what Mom n Pop organizations have been about.

Silliness,
Dave "Used to work retail for a Mom&pop. Cheaper. That's a laugh" Leckie

[Leviathan]

To Wum:

Wow you obviously know very little about the patent process... A patent is based on a novel IDEA. No development needs to be done, therefore the only cost, is the patent cost.

To Sniper:

If you improve on an idea and it then becomes novel, that is patentable.

Remember on the flip side, when something is patented it becomes public domain, which means anyone can view the patent and get ideas from it. If companies kept this information secret, then no one would have access to this information.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by wum

wtf are you talking about

ummm, your argument sounds like you're strongly against capitalism?

[Leviathan]

What on Earth makes you think things would be cheaper? Things generally tend to fall in price based on volume sold, so I'm not sure where your coming from.

Originally Posted by wum

but wouldn't you rather live in a society where you had hundreds of little and competitive Mom N' Pop manufacturers, rather than a huge monolithic corporation that ran everything and concentrated the wealth in the hands of a few? And the shit would be cheaper too.

[wum]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

To Wum:

Wow you obviously know very little about the patent process... A patent is based on a novel IDEA. No development needs to be done, therefore the only cost, is the patent cost.

uh right.

I'm sure the ballard fuel cell costs peanuts to develop, or the rotary engine, or stealth technology.

think... and then post.

[dabbler]

and we all know how many mom n pop operations want to develop ballard fuel cells...

[wum]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

What on Earth makes you think things would be cheaper? Things generally tend to fall in price based on volume sold, so I'm not sure where your coming from.

the inflation in cost comes from the patent on technologies that your competitor can't use.

so it becomes less about entrepreneurship and more about protectionism.

[Leviathan]

Do you need me to spell it out for you?

I've got a couple idea in the middle of being patented right now, I know the process.

You DO NOT have to develop ANYTHING in order to patent it. Now why don't you think before you post.

Originally Posted by wum

uh right.

I'm sure the ballard fuel cell costs peanuts to develop, or the rotary engine, or stealth technology.

think... and then post.

[wum]

Originally Posted by dabbler

and we all know how many mom n pop operations want to develop ballard fuel cells...

but if all their development weren't under lock and key, maybe people could contribute, like with Linux :)