Apr 08, 05
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too much school
so i'm looking around at my peers, some of them working towards advanced degrees, some not, and others working a trade. Out of all them, only the last group seems to have their shit on track.
i feel bad for people who have been going to school for 8 years or so, have ammassed tens of thousands in debt, and are only starting "life." how did it get so bucreaucratic all of sudden? my drinking notwithstanding, i can barely retain 60 percent of the useless shit i take in at school. So why are employers promoting a rigid system that isn't all that conducive towards work experience, as opposed to training young whippersnappers and grooming them to be CEO's or something... the amount of school is just brain numbing when you think about it sometimes. this is all a bit inconherent owing to my nightcap, so no need for wisecracks about needing more schooling, but could it that Public Education is to blame? life is just getting so fucking bureaucratic... discuss. 
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Apr 08, 05
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giving universities the monopoly on issuing medical and other advanced degrees has been the ultimate in racketeering. it's TEN FUCKING years of post secondary before they consider you competent enough to diagnose a cold (and all the other stuff, but my point is that it's all or nothing). wouldn't it be nice if your doctor taught that the finger bone was attached to the hand bone as you were growing up, and so you could do the easy stuff at a relatively early age... and make money doing it, and not amassing a huge fucking debt while sticking your nose in a book the whole time.
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Apr 08, 05
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All about class my man.
You need a (bullshit and useless) university degree to get any high paying job these days. Its a mechanism for perpetuating unequal distributions of wealth. We're a lot luckier up here than in the US, in that school is heavily subsidized. But still, those who think we have 'equal access' to education are deluding themselves. The Irony is that a BA is completely and totally useless, other than as a kind of interesting novelty. But then again, I'm pretty bitter with school right now, so maybe thats just the burnout talking.
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Apr 08, 05
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case in point, my friend is just about to finish a mechanical engineering program at BCIT. he has been casually looking for an apprenticeship for the past month. already, he has had offers of 30+$ an hour for fulltime apprenticeship positions.
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Apr 08, 05
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Employers demand it because its an easy way of narrowing down the field of candidates. A) It chops down like half their applicants right there (and if they have the choice of someone with a degree or someone without, they go 'why not take the one with more education?'). B) It shows you have comprehensive reading and writing skills, and function well in systems of discipline (eg, doing things when you are told, getting them done on time, sitting still for long periods of time, not lipping off). C) It means you're middle class and will 'fit in' well.
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Apr 08, 05
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maybe because i've worked lots of restaurant jobs where there was a hierarchical system based mainly on experience, and how most restaurant managers once worked as busboys or waiters themselves, and so they know the business inside out.
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Apr 08, 05
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Apr 08, 05
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^
In terms of competence you might be right. I'm talking more about values/attitudes/speech patterns/ect. We like to pretend we live in a society that doesn't discriminate based on people's background, but the fact is that those kinds of things really do matter.
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Apr 08, 05
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I really wish i did not wreck my back working at the airport cause then i would go for the trades
but inseed i have gone back to kwantlen for god know how long and for what? i am still trying to decided which is very frustrating in itself. Oh and thanks to my mom for paying for most of my schooling cause she knows other wise i would never go back
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Apr 08, 05
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If there's one thing I learned doing honours its that I dont want to spend the rest of my life in academia. So I guess I did learn something useful in school.
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Apr 08, 05
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i seriously laugh at the people who waste their time doin like 10 years of school and gettin haaaaardcore in debt then finally startin life and payin off all their shit for years and THEN start makin decent coin..
im only gunna have to go thru like a year and a half of courses to get the skills i need to renovate houses, then buy fixer up houses, fix em up with a couple peeps, flip it , pocket the profit and work on the next one.. then build up enough profit so i can just pay other ppl to do the work, n i do the management work. then eventually can afford to be a full out builder, buyin property, buildin from ground up, sellin etc etc the rich people in this world don't do 1000 years of bullshit textbook work, they have real life skills and ideas.
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Apr 08, 05
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Apr 08, 05
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if not, what would you do instead.
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Apr 08, 05
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The thing is though that most mba's aren't getting hired. The corporate market has moved on to a more job experienced environment. I can't remember which rag I was reading but a majority of the companies are looking for executives with a strong work backing as opposed to a heavy schooling backing. This has offset the balance of the force a bit, as now you have a large amount of corporate america walking around with a mba or a similar degree and not even being able to get their foot in the door.
Educating yourself isn't enough anymore. Educating yourself for what is needed is the key. Now whether that be a trade, a phd, or a BA that is what the job market will tell you. And now it's time for bed.
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Apr 08, 05
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It seems to me the majority if people bashing an education are the ones who haven't gotten one :) Trades are fine, you can make lots of money doing them but certain professions you just can't learn from an apprenticeship. It would be pretty hard for a non-educated person to jump into my work setting and be at all productive.
It all depends on what you want to do, if you want to get dirty and build stuff, go into trades. I personally prefer electronics and design work of electromechanical devices. I don't see to many people out there with Engineering degrees looking for jobs. Some industries need educated people, some don't.
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Apr 08, 05
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I think it really depends on what field you want to get into. If you want to get into medicine or sciences (physics, chemistry, etc) then the theoretical knowledge you learn while earning your degree is crucial.
I work in the IT field where the B of Sc in Computer Science is not as important as it's made out to be. Sure it helps, and gives employers an idea of your values and the kind of comittment that you're willing to put in, but in the end it comes down to experience. I started a Computer Science degree, then switched into a two-year diploma program to get a head start on experience. I'm not exactly making huge money yet, but I've got a good start, and could see myself making 60/70+ in the next 5 years without much trouble. Even if you don't end up working in your field of choice, your degree will help. You'll have that knowledge for the rest of your life (hopefully) and your degree always looks good on a resume, regardless of your major. Although to be honest, I've seen managers look over candidates with a degree on the assumption that they would be too highly qualified, expect too much money, or wouldn't mesh well with a team because they think they already know everything.
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Apr 08, 05
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I know one of those guys, he did a physics degree then decided that he wanted to do an electrical engineering degree, but he didn't stop there, nope. He did a Masters in E.E. and went on to do some contract work for the fuel cell industry and has started a successful consulting firm and is now doing his Phd in E.E. while running his company. And my guess is that he pulls in a pretty penny.
You make is sound like its easy to buy and flip houses. What skills are you going to get in a year and a half that are going to allow you to renovate houses and flip them? Most people who do that don't take any courses and have been in the construction industry for more than a year and a half. Where are you going to get the initial 200 grand + to buy the first house? Sounds like debt to me. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying that you haven't seen the other side either. The rich people in this world DO usually have somewhat of an education despite what you may think. Quote:
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Apr 08, 05
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Apr 08, 05
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If you want to make it into the *really* good jobs, you need university-level training. It's easy to build up a career and make a good living, with or without college education - but like, if you want to be the head AI designer for Rockstar Games or something, you need a PhD in mathematics. It's not the piece of paper you get at the end that matters, it's the information in the classes, the learning and thought-processes that you simply cannot get from books or self-taught experience.
Oh, and friends don't let friends take arts. An arts degree is an utter waste of four years.
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Apr 08, 05
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