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Jul 05, 05
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Jul 05, 05
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Bad Karma:
Willis :you cant bitch if you dont vote hahahahahahahahahahahaha.....*silly*.... WOW its incledable how people are mature? You know what smartkid... You can just fucking mind your own business if your going to complan... I dont vote and Im bitchen, its the way it is kid, and no one has the right to say what I need to, or do not have the right to do...Whatever....:moon: Quote:
Theres a differents with criticizing Goverments and critizing the goverment.... Last edited by maztraz; Jul 05, 05 at 12:15 PM.
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Jul 05, 05
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Im french how many times will I need to say it on this forum?
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Jul 05, 05
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See the problem here?
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Jul 05, 05
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i have never voted for a party where i agree with everything that they stand for or are promising to do. and i also know that half the things that i agree with won't end up happening anyway. it's kinda crappy, but it's always been about choosing the lesser of two evils. politics aren't perfect and if you're waiting for a candidate dressed like your knight in shining armor then you're never going to vote because candidates like that don't exist. but if we don't vote at all then we are leaving major decisions in our country to other people. yeah, you still pay your taxes. but that's like paying a membership fee for a club, then not voting on who gets to be the president and then bitching about how your money is being spent afterward. because you pay that membership fee it should make you want to vote for the president that you think would best use your money. you might not agree with everything, and maybe you're just voting because the other candidate is worse (coughbushvs.kerrycough) but i think it's important to vote...so in conclusion, i guess no, i don't think paying taxes gives you bitching rights.
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Jul 05, 05
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weird, it sure sounded in your first post like you were blaming the government for mistreating quebecois. especially when you said to blame the leaders and not the citizens. so all that bitching about quebec rights was directed to the idea of government in general and not the canadian government? huh. ps. i have no problems with quebec. i like the fact that it makes canada more cultural diverse.
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Jul 05, 05
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I never trusted giving power to the hands of one human....Even tho the Government might be good or bad, I do not believe that one human can make decisions for Millions&Millions of peoples all at once, even if there is people helping him, he is kind of the master and I dont think that a masters can deal with the variety of peoples that we have in todays society all at the same time...... I think a larger community of peoples making decisions for one country would be much more acceptable...instead of promoting only one....Cause when you fall on the rong person for exemple:BUSH you can hardly change the fact that his there, but if they're was more then one it would probably make the balance(And I think Woman should also be a part of it) You get the idea now...? I will not support something that I don't believe in...
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Jul 05, 05
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if you think Paul Martin has all the power to make any decisions he wants in Canada then you are totally mistaken. just look how long it has taken the liberal government to get something like Same-Sex marriage through parliment, not to mention other things such as the budget, child day-care plans and other social programs or any other friggin' decision that has to be made. Paul Martin doesn't just say "LET IT BE SO" they have debates, votes and so on with all the members that have been voted in from all the parties that claimed seats in the election (and remember they didn't appoint themselves...they were elected by the citizens of canada to represent them) in fact, the house of commons sounds a lot like this next thing you say: Quote:
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Jul 05, 05
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all yall *****hs need to read robert michels - Political Parties: A Sociological Study of the Oligarchical Tendencies of Modern Democracy its a good fuckin read.
ohh shit and i found an abriged version of some of what he writes about it right here http://www2.pfeiffer.edu/~lridener/c.../MICHELSR.HTML
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Jul 05, 05
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ps-i bet somebody has already posted that.
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Jul 05, 05
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fascist totalitarian government....hahaha are you kidding me?I do know how Canadian system works...And Democracy...But Im sorry to say that not all system works correctly... Didn't you get that I don't like the idea of Government.... First, When I'm talking about a community of peoples making decision that means ''no masters''... Second, Community of peoples as in peoples coming from all around the country coming from every category(french, English...etc/Straight, Bi, Homo...etc/Rich, Poor..etc/from Left&Right/Man&Woman/Younger&Older/Black, White...etc..etc..etc as long as they are people that have good influence, and capable of expressing they're self in smart ways)making various decisions for the country Third, Some poeple in our countries have often no idea what they are voting for...And some political parties are willing to do anything to seduct the population with they're 1Billion Dollars promoting instead of really showing what they are really made of or even often lying...And its often the good politics that finish last in elections cause they wern't using $$$&power....Thats why I think they're should be one or more people coming from atleasts you're near comunity... Forth, Agree that maybe not all governments are curupted...But curuption exists, And thats why I think it is a bad idea for a country to depend only on one classe of people.... There is so many mistories and problemes with some governments in the world that we can do almosts nothing, and millions of lives stands beetween those peoples hands and often uses it like shit... ...etc Was I talking about Paul Martin? I only hope you understand better... Last edited by maztraz; Jul 05, 05 at 05:08 PM.
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Jul 05, 05
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^i still don't see that much of a difference between what you described and what democracy is supposed to be.
even in the communities you describe there would be a council of people that represent everyone. that doesn't sound too far off from what we have already. i know you don't like the idea of government. i got that part. but what you're describing is just another form of government, you're just not calling it that. a council of people making decisions for other people in their community (whether they are many different races, genders and sexualities) are still a form of government. you want people of all races, genders, sexual orientations, economic level, etc... to come together and make decisions? well, that is supposed to be what democracy is all about. everyone voting to make the decisions on how they want their country to be run. i'm not telling you this is how canada works. i'm just trying to show you that what you keep describing as your 'ideal country' is actually how democracy is supposed to function. even the hippy communes that i have visited in the interior of B.C. use democratic methods to organize their commune. they have a council of people and each person is responsible for a certain portion of the commune or workload and they vote and everyone gets a say in what's going on. that is what democracy is all about. i only brought up paul martin because you were going off about how you didn't didn't like a country ruled by one person who gets to make all the decisions and i thought you were talking in relevance to canada. anarchists are the people that truly don't like government and think there should be no control at all of people. but you don't sound like that because you still want that council of community members to make decisions.
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Jul 05, 05
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hehehe....Who said it was totaly different from democracy? Not exacly... Not a other form of Government.... It's a other form of political regroupment to make much more then one, and make the final desicions for the country. That means atleasts every person that wants to fight for a cause, and has had a major possitive influence on they're communities to talk for they're community should have the right to speak up. (It exists but rarely) I'm not saying its not democracy, I'm saying that society is highly influencing cause of some politics, and its often playing a huge negative factor on environement&religion witch after has a huge impact on society, and then humans. Take exemple on how society reacts to homo-sexuality&Bi-Sexuality and tones of other crazy things that are totaly natural&human that seems totaly dirty/evil/bad...etc to some people eyes and the daily stress that goes with it..... I'm afread that there is big factores on what I don't agree, and Canada is doing such as Hormones in the food..I could say tones... But I do admit that Canada is a good exemple of democracy, but All I hope is Canada will never become America. Hippies are still humans don't forget that.... But I still don't support having to deal to vote for someone that you never know what his really made of.... Trust is never there....I think you know what I'm talking about... I think some societies are too much over protected...And should more often take they're responsabilities in hand, and I truly see that some people have no idea what world we live in(blind). I think that some people should seriously open they're eyes, and it helps when you know you will have to deal with decisions for people to keep updated on political actualities for they're own goods... You know what I mean?... USA for exemple:I think if people knew for who they we're really voting for in most places of USA they would of never voted for BUSH, and when you have only local actualities, and believe me it really doesn't help... And thats something I find very often in North America and some parts of the world, often people seem in other world cause the real truth has never been brougth to they're eyes...Or simply don't wanna see it cause they we're never broth to them correctly like it really is (not covered by fucking pure fake medias like FOX for exemple) its okay...but No, I was talking worldwide... I don't think you can call me Anarchist indeed...But I do support a part of what it is about, its good on the short term but not the long term....Cause of they're bad notion of Power.. Even thought I don't fully support the impact of Capitalism on the Environment, Society, Animals&Humans. I think we should find a middle to it, and we are fare away from that middle at the moment... But I have my own reasons to not tell what I fully think of the current system...check your PM
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Jul 05, 05
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although i'm not sure exactly if you were saying this, but here goes:
i don't think you can blame government for things such as animosity towards gays and lesbians. that's just a social thing where people have to become used to the idea that it's just as normal and valid as heterosexuality. the canadian government has even said that gays and lesbians are the same as everyone else and get the same rights...but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to change their opinion. i'm just trying to point out that government is not the root of all these problems. some exist in the social mind independent any government. government is a regulatory system, it doesn't produce things like genetically engineered foods...it regulates those things, comes up with the laws and sometimes funds them, but they would still exist in some form without government. i do know what you mean about being frustrated with the government system we have, but remember that the government is not the root of many problems we have. those exist in the society and the views society has...i would say media has more to do with that than government. what we are taught as normal, etc...
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Jul 05, 05
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And Im afread I don't only count on what they say or show but what they do....If they wanted to stop it, they would put laws for sexual oriantations to be respected...And politics are often they're to make money and I think it shouldn't be the reason for what we do what we do(witch society often don't understand that)...If they wanted to regulate it they would stop it....Do you even know what impact geneticaly modified food has on humans? And Why is it that Europe, Big Part of Asia&South America, Africa can do without it?And not North America Exacly, And who has control over public media?
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Jul 05, 05
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you are trying to make it seem like the government is the root of all problems her; like they control everyone under a huge matrix like system. you forget that a lot of the things you are talking about have more to do with long standing social values (gay, religious and racial issues) and big-money corporations. it's easy to point the finger at government and blame them for everything, but you need to look wider; problems stem from everywhere not just politics. Last edited by sidekick; Jul 05, 05 at 09:03 PM.
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Jul 05, 05
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Jul 06, 05
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wow... i was going to write something in here but i didn't bother reading the second page until just now, then after doing some of that decided that I didn't have 3 months to write a graduate thesis on something that Grapes was right about in the first place.
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Jul 06, 05
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Its still not authorised in FRANCE... And Tell me why homo-sexuals should go in special places like they we're a shame to society of some kind? Hey hey I think your runing a little over what I said.... I didn't say that Governments we're responsible for everything....Like I said before he is just the cherry onto the bloody cake, theres people co-operating with the politicians that often leed our countries and Vise Versa, I think if the government chooses to be there he has also a big part of responsabilities....And I think you know what Im talking about so please stop throwing the rock ferder then it really is...Your a little under estimating it Man they're isn't just you and I, almost the holl world doesn't agree with it....And ''Yes'' it has to do with the political situation...If they can't manage they're countries without poluting the world with genetically modified crap and then put it to nature, then we have some seriouse problemes here.... In England we wanted to inplante it, but they refused it....Yes, Like I said before politicians&Governments are there to make money BBC might not be controlled in the same ways as you think it is...Let me give you an exemple : Lets take Wal-mart, you know that when markets like Wal-Mart reduces they're prices all markets needs also to reduce prices, or else they will fail, or will never make benefits and will loose customers.....Well thats the effect of Capitalism, When all the big National TV Stations puts something up, BBC has not really the choice to come with similar programs, cause people will never believe in it or will never watch it, and no one will watch there Station if people feel that they are bullshit... You see what I mean ''Cround control''...Theres to much pressure to be able to stand up on the cround, enless you are a certain amount to be able to resiste...Theres To much big markets controling the market, to much big TV stations controling the local news... Why is it that I should try it? Yes, your right its easy to point the finger out.... You know when people that have to much power to do things often abuses it, well its the same thing with politicians, I can not trust people that we give to much power.. It is human to make mistakes indeed, but it is not if you become oportunist of somekind... You understand my point of few? ''More people should be under less possesion of control over the population'' Last edited by maztraz; Jul 06, 05 at 05:35 PM.
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