The importance of owning guns in a free society

[automatic]

Originally Posted by wum

Iraq insurgency seems to be holding the US at bay

but they're not using guns, they're using bombs.... are you advocating bomb ownership now?

[PHUNK]

i'd love to own a LAW. they should make it legal for those, hah.

[ebbomega]

I personally think that SCUD missiles should be standard issue to all people living on earth.

Yeah. Then everybody'd be happy!

[wum]

Originally Posted by automatic

in fact i think the biggest threat to my safety these days involving guns is the increased black market in US weapons on this side of the border, and the only way we're going to be able to crack down on that is with tougher penalties for the illegal possesion of hadguns.
y

we all know that doesn't work and organized crime spring up around it. i said the said the same thing about hardcore porn, and ebbomega made a good point against it.

[The_acidhouse]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

you used to make some good arguments!

seriously, all those examples you have shown us are from countries that are nothing like canada and have governments that are totally different. rwanda? how the hell is that supposed to be an accurate example to prove your point that we need guns in canada?

like i said before: canada already IS a free society. we don't have a government like rwanda or other places like that. we don't need to protect ourselves from being militarily oppressed (i don't think the canadian military could do that anyway, haha). so what are we going to use the guns for if we don't need protection from our government? on ourselves of course! on our own citizens! that would be totally destructive.

perhaps guns are needed by citizens in oppressive countries so they can protect themselves, but not in canada or other free societies like your poll suggests.

your post is about two different things entirely. come back when you have an argument that works.

If you get to study history and better yet the history of economics you will see that society can unravel about as quickly as a car accident.

Quite frankly, if a new great depression sweeps the world and the religious fundamentalists take over the USA, i'm running for the hills. I'd rather fight to the death against tyranny - WITH A GUN I MIGHT ADD - than have to run from place to place hiding, hoping i'm not on a list of homosexual deviants ready to be placed on a cattle car to my death.

I know that sounds outlandish, but the history of the world isn't constant rainbows and sunshine.

[wum]

Originally Posted by The_acidhouse

If you get to study history and better yet the history of economics you will see that society can unravel about as quickly as a car accident.

Quite frankly, if a new great depression sweeps the world and the religious fundamentalists take over the USA, i'm running for the hills. I'd rather fight to the death against tyranny - WITH A GUN I MIGHT ADD - than have to run from place to place hiding, hoping i'm not on a list of homosexual deviants ready to be placed on a cattle car to my death.

I know that sounds outlandish, but the history of the world isn't constant rainbows and sunshine.

[wum]

Originally Posted by The_acidhouse

Quite frankly, if a new great depression sweeps the world and the religious fundamentalists take over the USA, i'm running for the hills.

Economic "Armageddon" Predicted

[djmarkpaul]

As much as I hate guns, it is clearly obvious that a disarmed populace is a dictators dream come true.

We know this by reflecting back at History, and tyrants in the past such as Mao, Stalin, and Hitler all used the recipe of gun control to subdue their populace.

I don't think the importance of owning guns in a free society is the issue in this thread, but rather, if history were to repeat itself, would you notice? Would you care?

Edit: I am surprised that so many voted no. Wum I am certain that mainly it is due to having a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to your threads, many people on the board automatically disagree with you on these issues because you're that "racist christian conspiracy theorist" so convienently they can just chalk it up as more paranoia. I think you can be an alarmist and it gets the better of you at times (and I would know a thing or two on this ;) ), but I think when you see this kind of reaction it should get you to question your motives. Are you finished throwing pearls to swine? They don't care man, I don't think they ever will. There are worthier endevours for you.

[The_acidhouse]

Originally Posted by The_acidhouse

If you get to study history and better yet the history of economics you will see that society can unravel about as quickly as a car accident.

Quite frankly, if a new great depression sweeps the world and the religious fundamentalists take over the USA, i'm running for the hills. I'd rather fight to the death against tyranny - WITH A GUN I MIGHT ADD - than have to run from place to place hiding, hoping i'm not on a list of homosexual deviants ready to be placed on a cattle car to my death.

I know that sounds outlandish, but the history of the world isn't constant rainbows and sunshine.

I just wanted to add to what may seem to some as a paranoid rant by uncovering my true position.

There is no question that guns in our society - and more specifically in the US - contribute to a huge social problem. My argument however is that in a free society a government MUST serve to maximize freedoms even if it creates some social costs.

Think about it.. If you replace the word gun here with pornography or drugs or anything else with real or imagined 'social costs' this drives the point home.

That being said... Society must also place reasonable limits on certain freedoms. It's clear that selling scud missles etc.. to teenagers/criminals is nuts. However, private ownership of guns for responsible adult owners should be something the government allows without insane waits or taxation and obtuse violations of privacy.

Individual freedoms in a free society must be preserved - it is the keystone of democracy.

[automatic]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

I am surprised that so many voted no. Wum I am certain that mainly it is due to having a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to your threads.

no, it's not....because if you read his poll question, what wum is asking isn't "should we be allowed to own guns?" which most people would agree with, but "should the ownership of guns be a fundamental right, with no regulations". i think most people think that's ridiculous. i've got no problem with gun ownership, but i don't see why a person shouldn't at least have to go and get a gun license, take some firearm handling training and pass a criminal record check before they can legally purchase one. that's the system we have now, and i and most people see no problem with it. i also think it's ludicrous to make it a "fundamental right".

as to registering each individual weapon, that's a little bit trickier, and probably unnecessary. but jesus, if we already have car, hunting, fishing, bicycle, and dog licenses i think a gun license is not a big deal. and i DON't think that the "spectre of fascism" is a big enough threat that it's imperative that all citizens have unrestricted access to firarms.

to live in a civilized society you necessarily sacrifice absolute freedom for the smooth running of society. that's the way it works. you have freedom of speech for instance, but you don't have the freedom to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. i think a gun license is a reasonable abbrogation of individual freedom when taken in the context of the good of society. i don't agree with wum that an armed popualtion is safer from violent crime, and from what i remember of my devianr sociology the facts back me up.

[wum]

^ that's what Stalin said. Hitler too*

[The Preacher]

The only reason one owns a gun, is to fire it. The need to "protect" ones self and ones own land, is simply justification. Violence only begets violence.

[wum]

Originally Posted by The Preacher

The only reason one owns a gun, is to fire it. The need to "protect" ones self and ones own land, is simply justification. Violence only begets violence.

not if you kill the perp outright

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

^ that's what Stalin said. Hitler too*

Such blatant abuse of Godwin's.

You've lost wum. It's over.