Skytrain Police

Originally Posted by ja_raul

metal detectors in clubs is sort of like an alarm system on a home, if one is so inclined to get themselves in, they'll do it. not saying that they are useless, (since they are putting up more and more metal detectors in clubs now) but i dont think that particular example will keep "tha bad guys" away.

why didnt this poll have a couple more options? the 2 existing seem a bit extreme. i woulda voted for "couldnt care less" since i dont ride the skytrain, but a year ago when i did ride the skytrain everyday i woulda voted "i couldnt fuckin care less". i also get the impression that some of you dont like cops, perhaps swaying your opinion on this whole matter. i say: if youre not doin anythin wrong, or if you are but youre not being a showoff, then you have nothing to worry about. not all cops are assholes.. only some, but it is true that YOU have the potential to make ANY cop an asshole if you give him/her attitude..

be cool, stay in school

There is no grey area in this matter, I didn't see a reason to put, "I could care less". This is my city, and my right to feel safe. I don't necessarily see why they should have carried guns. Hell, for all the money that they supposedly dumped into training and into buying the guns, and creating a system for them. They could have hired more security and upped the their presence. That alone is a deterrent. But no, instead of hiring more staff they bought guns.

And this isn't about authority, it is about the abuse of authority. I am not convinced they are going to be diplomatic and not trigger happy.

Point in case, I was riding the skytrain one day and a guy came on and said hi to a few people, which point some skytrain guy pulled him off the train for being disruptive at a station where there were Special Constables. All the riders defended the guywho got yanked off, there was no reason that he should have been. But it was a blatant abuse of power.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by fable

2)a team of 70 (all caucasian) police officers, of which a large percentage are pushing the ol midlife crisis, and are ex vpd.

First, I call bullshit... I've seen skytrain officers of other ethnicities before. Secondly, I don't see what validity it has to the debate in the first place.

I don't get why you must play the race card in every debate you have. For a guy who preaches all about acceptance you sure seem to have it out for the white folk. As I've said before... we're not all as bad as you seem to think. :)

[Technix]

I don't know that most people understand what Skytain Constables were going through...they couldn't detain, they couldn't arrest, they couldn't uphold warrants of wanted criminals, they basically had no power as it was. All they could do was issue fines and act as security guards on Translink property.

Also, Translink officers usually found themselves outnumbered when it came to a large group of rowdy punk teenagers and drunk/high over 20s coming from the clubs on a Friday/Saturday night.

I think it's a good thing that they are armed. it upholds a police presence...I don't understand why people are so freaked out by it...if skytrain police can't have guns you might as well tell the RCMP or municipal police forces to get rid of their guns. The fact of the matter is police require guns in the event of an emergency or where lethal force is necessary...why is it any different from the RCMP or municipal forces packing glocks?

I think people who whine about it have the misconception that there isn't crime, drugs and assaults that are rampant on skytrain, buses and public transportation in general. This move is a good one where the presence is stepped up, they can enforce the law, they can uphold warrants and maintain those powers on and off Translink property.

Those who think it's bad or are whining about it should really give their head a shake and look at the positive side of this...perception changes when guns get thrown into the mix. Crime, drugs and assaults will go down because of this perception that we have about guns being a bad thing. Police resources are stretched enough as it is, and personally I'd feel safe knowing that if I'm being mugged on the skytrain that skytrain officers have the power to intervene, detain and arrest on sight.

Bravo.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Avana

And this isn't about authority, it is about the abuse of authority. I am not convinced they are going to be diplomatic and not trigger happy.

You can't fairly state that yet... you can state it as an opinion but hardly as fact Before making that judgement you have to see how they deal with the new situation. You seem to think that these guys are nothing more than beefed up security guards... I beg to differ. They're trained. They also have to use their common sense, just like a regular police officer would.

Originally Posted by TeCHniX

I don't know that most people understand what Skytain Constables were going through...they couldn't detain, they couldn't arrest, they couldn't uphold warrants of wanted criminals, they basically had no power as it was. All they could do was issue fines and act as security guards on Translink property.

Also, Translink officers usually found themselves outnumbered when it came to a large group of rowdy punk teenagers and drunk/high over 20s coming from the clubs on a Friday/Saturday night.

I would hardly think anyone here is whining.

I do agree, they needed more authority. But did they need to get guns to have that authority. I work part time at a department store, our security team is leagally allowed to detain, with force if needed, or mace, or pepper spray to arrest anyone caught stealing.

They aren't going to pull a gun on someone unless there is a gun pulled on them. They can't shoot someone unless there is a gun pointed at them. For most cases, they probably won't even unholster their weapon. So why the extreme?

[Technix]

Originally Posted by Avana

They aren't going to pull a gun on someone unless there is a gun pulled on them. They can't shoot someone unless there is a gun pointed at them. For most cases, they probably won't even unholster their weapon. So why the extreme?

Do you have any idea how many people carry guns?

Do we know when someone will decide to pull a gun?

Is a constable without a gun going to approach someone with one and take that chance? Would you?

It'd sure be nice to have a an officer who is armed to take down gun happy fuckers, if it ever happened.

It's about being prepared and it's about safety of the public. Let's let it be and see how well it works.

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

You can't fairly state that yet... you can state it as an opinion but hardly as fact Before making that judgement you have to see how they deal with the new situation. You seem to think that these guys are nothing more than beefed up security guards... I beg to differ. They're trained. They also have to use their common sense, just like a regular police officer would.

You are right Shawn, this is based somewhat on opinion. If I had heard on the news, that they were ex-rcmp I might be a little more open to the idea. I am skeptical of city police. I have my reasons too. Very valid reasons.

I was referring to the fact though that he said that it may have to do with my fear of authority. I don't break the law. I don't even put my bag on a seat so no one can sit beside me(ugh, major pet peeve). But I have seen them abuse authority in the past, what is going to stop them here.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Avana

I work part time at a department store, our security team is leagally allowed to detain, with force if needed, or mace, or pepper spray to arrest anyone caught stealing.

That only applies to what is called 'in house security'. They are hired independently by the business themself.

If you are a licensed guard who works through a business and especially under the gov't you aren't allowed to carry any form of weapon or even cuffs. It makes no sense at all.

Anyways... try macing a group of 20 teenagers.... good luck.

[Technix]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

That only applies to what is called 'in house security'. They are hired independently by the business themself.

Not only this, Avana is comparing apples to oranges...department stores are one thing, public transportation which millions rely on is another. It should be treated as any public highway would...subject to laws and have a police force that can uphold those laws and to protect the public by bearing arms in the event such arms are needed. Lest we forget Skytrain constables are no longer constables...they are now a POLICE force. Unless Avana wishes to raise the question why police in general have weapons.

This isn't 8th grade math, kids.

Technix - I see what you are saying. But where are the statistics that show that there have been that many occurances of gun violence on the trains. Yes, there have been muggings, and stabbings. But I don't often hear on the news that some Special Constable got shot cause he couldn't defend himself.

Shawn - They still have to follow the law. They can't just go ahead and do something without out justification. I agree, that trying to control a rowdy pack of kids is hard, but I still don't think that they are going to pull a gun on some 20 yr olds who are drunk. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Originally Posted by TeCHniX

Not only this, Avana is comparing apples to oranges...department stores are one thing, public transportation which millions rely on is another. It should be treated as any public highway would...subject to laws and have a police force that can uphold those laws and to protect the public by bearing arms in the event such arms are needed. Lest we forget Skytrain constables are no longer constables...they are now a POLICE force. Unless Avana wishes to raise the question why police in general have weapons.

This isn't 8th grade math, kids.

Once again, I think it is great that they have more authority. They should be able to remove someone from the train if they need to. They should be able to arrest someone doing a drug deal. Or running away from authority, or anything that is breaking the law for that matter. But I still don't believe they need guns to do it.

There are far worse cities in this country that have higher crime rates on their transit lines, why haven't they done this. I think it is unjustified. The crime rate here just isn't high enough.

[Technix]

Originally Posted by Avana

Technix - I see what you are saying. But where are the statistics that show that there have been that many occurances of gun violence on the trains. Yes, there have been muggings, and stabbings. But I don't often hear on the news that some Special Constable got shot cause he couldn't defend himself.

I don't disagree with you. But let's be honest...when you're giving an authority to enforce law like police officers, it would make sense to have them armed so that they can perform their obligations as officers under the Police Act. Otherwise, RCMP and municipal forces can trade glocks for batons and pepperspray.

I still think they should have that power for the main fact that police resources so far stretched and underfunded anyways...this is basically equivalent to 70 more police officers for the lower mainland. That I won't argue with. :)

[Sue Bitch]

I would have to say that guns are not the awnser in any case, but if they really want some type of wepon it should be a taser. This "police" are wanna be cops that are going to be on a huge power trip for the next six months until this all slows down.

[nabs]

I take the bus daily regularly, i dont i go everywhere in the skytrain, i dont see any need for the Transit Cops to have guns. They dont need it. They have handcuffs, what else do they need. I feel threatened by the transit cops now.

[nabs]

technix you make a goodp point though.

Do you have any idea how many people carry guns?

Do we know when someone will decide to pull a gun?

Is a constable without a gun going to approach someone with one and take that chance? Would you?

It'd sure be nice to have a an officer who is armed to take down gun happy fuckers, if it ever happened.

It's about being prepared and it's about safety of the public. Let's let it be and see how well it works.

Originally Posted by TeCHniX

I don't disagree with you. But let's be honest...when you're giving an authority to enforce law like police officers, it would make sense to have them armed so that they can perform their obligations as officers under the Police Act. Otherwise, RCMP and municipal forces can trade glocks for batons and pepperspray.

I still think they should have that power for the main fact that police resources so far stretched and underfunded anyways...this is basically equivalent to 70 more police officers for the lower mainland. That I won't argue with. :)

6 months ago when they started with this idea publically, there was never a mention of another measure. They always said guns. They didn't investigate any other options.

I am a full on supporter that they need the authority. I think they rushed it though.

[Bass Junkiez]

Personally i think this thread is a waste of time.... There are more and more little gangs growing around town and more and more police officers find guns on people.... ESPECIALLY in the metrotown and surrey area.... with bc and and surrey in fact expanding with such rate there is going to be more and more violence. ie stabbing , guns, and all the other bad things that come with it.... what they are trying to show is that there is more to SO CALLED SECURITY GUARDS then anything else.... I mean some of the OLD Sec. Guards were in deed pointless and still are... look at all the weak sec. guard that stand at banks.... what are those things.....oh yeh WASTE OF MONEY....what is he going to come up to you and poke you ...or remember how your ski mask looked like.....I think more and more ie sec. should be SEC guards...not a random joke that got hired to watch some crime go down..... I believe that crime is goin to reduce in around the skytrain area especially with the power that those guys have .... not only gun wise but law enforcement wise.... I totally support the idea and i think it should expend more into other areas......
Canada is way waY wAY WAY to easy on criminals..... got to europe or any where else but here...... you do the crime and you get served properly....ie try committing a crime in russia. such as here for shooting at some one...better yet cop or secutiry guard.....its rare that some one that gets arrested will make it to jaill.....street punishment is the way....
its similiar in Poland..... its not easy out there doin a crime and gettin slapped on your hand for.... Down there SECURITY is SECURITY
thats why its time for us to face the facts of the word POLICE / SECURITY to have some sort of law in there hands....and if they abuse itm then it should get delt out in court properly.

my 2 cents peace

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Avana

I agree that something needs to be done to curb the violence and crime around the stations. Some of them are pretty skeezy to walk through. But the fact is, I don't believe in guns. I don't like any type of gun. Pellet gun, paintball gun, or any other type of sporting gun. I think they could be too easily turned on someone else.

But I also worry that they won't be governed properly and they will abuse their authority.

I have known several securtiy guards that have tried for the RCMP/VPD/Border Guards, and what not, and don't pass the psychology portion of the testing. They don't fit the profile of what is expected of a police officer. I fear that the training isn't as comprehensive, nor is the testing or the profiling.

most if not all skytrain police are retired police officers as far as i know, they arent just rent a cops.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by gusto

in 2002, england/wales had the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies. i haven't found a more recent statistic, but that gives you an idea anyway.

yes but their murder rate is still lower then canada's, it probably has to do with the U.K's recent focus on outlawing anti-social behaviour, like kids loitering on the streets or people being drunk and loud, things which are not necessarily recorded or viewed as crime in Canada.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

[Gusto]

why would we look solely at murder rate anyway? anyway, the only point i was making is that england isn't as well off as she was making it out to be. robberies, muggings, etc are really common there.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

First, I call bullshit... I've seen skytrain officers of other ethnicities before. Secondly, I don't see what validity it has to the debate in the first place.

I don't get why you must play the race card in every debate you have. For a guy who preaches all about acceptance you sure seem to have it out for the white folk. As I've said before... we're not all as bad as you seem to think. :)

k sorry gotta do this....

fable first off LMFAO....
theres gonna be a force of rent-a-cops that got some firearms training..bumped up to translink offical and i betcha that there gonna be 75% NOT CAUCASIAN..

i wouldnt mind making a bet on this either..:)
races dont make faces..people do..and people are any colour

[Pennywise]

i guess no more heavy drinking on the skytrain.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by Pennywise

i guess no more heavy drinking on the skytrain.

awww pat...so tru

[Gusto]

yeah a guy i know was drinking on the skytrain on the weekend and he got busted. when the officer busted him and asked him to hand over the liquor, the guy was like, "no way, skypig," and spat in his face. then the cop shot him.

[Vitamin-X]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this.

On one hand we had three shootings last weekend. So guns and gun
violence is definately out there. However I prefer to see these guns in the
hands of Actual Police officers, not glorified security guards.
So I guess it actually depends on the caliber of the transit police and their associated training.

On a side note I would personally feel better knowing the security forces paid to keep order and protect me had guns. I guess I just feel safer protected by
guns.