those fucking comics!

[Cdn_Brdr]

I only have one question in regards to this entire situation... and I'm asking anyone of Islamic faith to be the one to answer it if possible. Please understand that I mean absolutely no offense. I'm just curious as to the answer.

Why is it when people of Islamic faith have anyone challenge them that they resort to some of the worst kind of violence?

Now I totally realize this comes off as a blanket statement but its more directed towards these radicals that flip out everytime there's a controversy. This whole deal is over a cartoon, be it one that may have been in poor taste, but a cartoon nonetheless. Is that any reason to raid embassies and attack and hurt people who have nothing to do with it? I just don't understand the logic of how hurting others will solve the problems. It's like these radicals pretty much don't allow for anyone to have an independent thought that strays from their own belief.

I have friends who are Islamic and they whole heartedly don't agree with this but if you head overseas to the Middle East there's rioting over this? It just seems that in this day and age the whole idea of a 'religious crusade' is pretty much passe. Globalization has made the world aware of hundreds if not thousands of belief systems so you figure there'd just be acceptance of people's differences. Just a silly 'hopeless dream' on my part I'm sure.... really is too bad though.

Cliched as it may be.... WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

I only have one question in regards to this entire situation... and I'm asking anyone of Islamic faith to be the one to answer it if possible. Please understand that I mean absolutely no offense. I'm just curious as to the answer.

Why is it when people of Islamic faith have anyone challenge them that they resort to some of the worst kind of violence?

Now I totally realize this comes off as a blanket statement but its more directed towards these radicals that flip out everytime there's a controversy. This whole deal is over a cartoon, be it one that may have been in poor taste, but a cartoon nonetheless. Is that any reason to raid embassies and attack and hurt people who have nothing to do with it? I just don't understand the logic of how hurting others will solve the problems. It's like these radicals pretty much don't allow for anyone to have an independent thought that strays from their own belief.

I have friends who are Islamic and they whole heartedly don't agree with this but if you head overseas to the Middle East there's rioting over this? It just seems that in this day and age the whole idea of a 'religious crusade' is pretty much passe. Globalization has made the world aware of hundreds if not thousands of belief systems so you figure there'd just be acceptance of people's differences. Just a silly 'hopeless dream' on my part I'm sure.... really is too bad though.

Cliched as it may be.... WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

Yeah your question was a blanket statement, it would be like me asking why do all Christians hate gay people and bomb abortion clinics? The extreme minority often has the loudest voices.

In the Arab world, I think it's important to know why these people are pissed off in the first place, it's not because there's necessarily been a fundamentalist shift when it comes to people in power in the last 20-30 years, I think its largely to do with intervention and occupation by the west. Remember, with everything horrible that has happened with the west (9/11, london train bombings, etc.) these reactions didn't come into place out of thin air. It's also important to understand the struggles of the Palestenian people, who have been living like refugees in their own country. As nice as it would be for a lot of us to think it is one sided, it's not. If you take a group of people who have been oppressed (wether it be by israel, western military occupation, etc.) for long enough, anything, even if it seems tiny, is enough to flame violence and reactions like we've seen.

It's not like they're not allowing independent belief, they are offended, there's a difference.


Of course, none of the news stories that display Muslims even in Canada who are reacting in a peaceful manner both to these cartoons and the violence.

[Cdn_Brdr]

^I see where you're coming from.... please note that I did say that it was directed towards the radicals and not EVERY muslim out there.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

I only have one question in regards to this entire situation... and I'm asking anyone of Islamic faith to be the one to answer it if possible. Please understand that I mean absolutely no offense. I'm just curious as to the answer.

Why is it when people of Islamic faith have anyone challenge them that they resort to some of the worst kind of violence?

Now I totally realize this comes off as a blanket statement but its more directed towards these radicals that flip out everytime there's a controversy. This whole deal is over a cartoon, be it one that may have been in poor taste, but a cartoon nonetheless. Is that any reason to raid embassies and attack and hurt people who have nothing to do with it? I just don't understand the logic of how hurting others will solve the problems. It's like these radicals pretty much don't allow for anyone to have an independent thought that strays from their own belief.

I have friends who are Islamic and they whole heartedly don't agree with this but if you head overseas to the Middle East there's rioting over this? It just seems that in this day and age the whole idea of a 'religious crusade' is pretty much passe. Globalization has made the world aware of hundreds if not thousands of belief systems so you figure there'd just be acceptance of people's differences. Just a silly 'hopeless dream' on my part I'm sure.... really is too bad though.

Cliched as it may be.... WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

replace muslim/islam with judeo-christian in every instance there and read it again.

it has nothing to do with the islamic faith so much that it has to do with religious fundamentalism in general. and the entire purpose of religious fundamentalism is population control.

there are a lot more fundamentalist militaristic regimes in the middle east, so they talk a shitload about religion, because it keeps the people in order.

why do you think dubya ends all his speeches with "god bless america"? Because he's a devout religious guy? sure. hella holy with his dropping bombs on two countries already. you miss that passage about thou shalt not kill there, dubs?

nope. it has nothing to do with dubya being religious and everything to do with the fact that if he says it, the religious people of america will stand behind him. population control.

and here's a question: how is dubya saying 'god bless america' in all of his speeches any different than osama ending his speeches with 'praise allah'?

answer: none at all.

this isn't about religion as it is about politics. the politicians are just using the religious aspect to incite their citizens to act irrationally in a way that benefits them.

[esoter1c]

We can't let the terrorists win ! buy a T-Shirt....?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/2/inktomi343238.php

[Séguin]

Countries in that part of the world are less civilised. They blow their own problems way the fuck out of proportion. I only found out about this whole thing 10 mins ago becauce I wanted to know why the FUCK one of the flags of my heritage was being set fire to by a bunch of people waving the Pakistanian flag. What a wonderful thing to see right after watching the Opening Ceremonies.

Its a comic for fuck sakes. And everyone in this thread who's taking the side of the extremists is a fucking hypocrite. Because I guarante you've done something in the name of just joking/fucking around. And that's all the comic was... idiots.

[Paroxysm]

Does anyone find it hypocritical that Muslims can make fun of Christians but not the other way around?

And isn't it odd that these days nobody starts a jihad over some Jesus picture, Hindu picture, or Buddhist picture, but when someone posts a picture of Mohammed, people are burning flags and riots start?

[miss.myra]

Yeaah, Christians and Hindus have done nothing violent in the name of their religion ever historically...

like say, the crusades, Hindus burning Muslim people alive in a train in northern India (in the ever disputed region of Kashmir), bombing abortion clinics, lynch mobs, etc.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Yeaah, Christians and Hindus have done nothing violent in the name of their religion ever historically...

like say, the crusades, Hindus burning Muslim people alive in a train in northern India (in the ever disputed region of Kashmir), bombing abortion clinics, lynch mobs, etc.

A political comic didn't start the crusades or cause Hindus to burn Muslims.

All i'm saying is if you say anything bad about Mohammed they flip.

[miss.myra]

You think the comics are the only reason Mulsims are pissed off ?

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

You think the comics are the only reason Mulsims are pissed off ?

I know it's not but it's what we are talking about at this present time. It's just really stupid that they act this was. It's just a cartoon. Ya know?

[Séguin]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

You think the comics are the only reason Mulsims are pissed off ?

Well, they seem to be doing a good job of taking it out souly on Denmark.

[ebbomega]

^^ That's because Denmark is the only western country they have an excuse to take it out on.

They blow their own problems way the fuck out of proportion.

Most ignorant statement of the thread.

Go live in a world where bombs are exploding in your back yard on a weekly basis and you can bitch to me about problems being blown out of proportion.

[b0ld]

Now Kanye West thinks he should be in the bible....
http://contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed....ble_09_02_2006

lets start a fuckin riot!!!

[fable]

[QUOTEPersonally at this stage.... people should of gotten over it along time ago.... I mean seriously look at the whole situation....QUOTE]

Are you looking at the whole situation? Do you understand that the reaction has less to do with the comics, and almost everything to do with the last two decades of oppression of the middle eastern people, primarily at the hands of imperialist powers?

Do you dispute this?

[QUOTEI mean really.... You look at the christians and how many comics depict jesus and what not.... Do you see christians marching down the street freaking out.... nope.... quite frankly they don't give a fuck.... why because they know who there "lord" is and the so called "non-believers" are ignorant.
QUOTE]

So one ignorant acts, excuses all the others? And where did you get your reasoning about christians!?!? Completelty baseless, immature, and idiotic. You dont see christians rallying, because for the most part people who practise the christian faith have not faced a quarted of the oppression the middle eastern population has faced since back to Britians first invasion of Iraq in 1919.

You want to dispute this?

[QUOTEI dunno maybe its uneducated individuals that roam the street... The extremist movement in islam is destroying what there prophet represents and so does the koran... Lots of extremist religious schools... kids are not tought how to do math and such.... they are brainwashed with a botched version of the Koran that depicts hate.QUOTE]

You reactionary, ignorant jackass, where do you get this from? You sound like a steretypical redneck backwater islamaphobe. Hate? Resistance to brutal invasion, occupation, military offences, theft, puppet governments, massive destruction of poverty, lay offs in the millions, theft and sale of state ownded business, economic sanctions for 12 years, the annexation of palestinian land, the double crossing by britain of Iraq, after it renegged on its offer of self determination, and on and on and on.

You have no concept of any context or history. Your dangerously oversimplifying the situation, your jumping on the Islamaphobe bandwagon that is being perpetated by some of the largest most corrupt/imperilaist governments and president on the planet, and your speaking utter nonsense. Your making yourself sound like someone with an elementary grade school education, and a penchant to get his political information from some of the most illigitemate new sources on the planet.

fuck off

[fable]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

Does anyone find it hypocritical that Muslims can make fun of Christians but not the other way around?

And isn't it odd that these days nobody starts a jihad over some Jesus picture, Hindu picture, or Buddhist picture, but when someone posts a picture of Mohammed, people are burning flags and riots start?

Your omparing two religeons, and completely forgetting to put into the context the oppression that people who follow such a religeon are going through at the hands of imperialist governments. Governments that have orchestrated a massive divisionary and destractionary smokescreen that youve inhaled directly up your nose.

Think for a second, before you go off, and risk spewing some Islamaphone bullshit. Christiainity and what they have done, or not done, is irrelevent.

Who is represented in the recent muslim communities uprising?
What countries do they hail from?
What has been going on in these countries?
Who has been orchestrating these actions in these countries and under what banner?

If you have everything taken away from you, yor jobs, lives of friends and family, your homes, your livelyhood, no food, no water, no education, but a massive occupation force, a puppet government, and a foreign government that is telling the rest of the world theyre helping you, all the while stealing your state owned resources and selling them as if they belong to them.....
now times this over 2 fucking decades!!! ll you have left is a crumbling faith in a leader who united people, and was stong in his leadership ages ago. And that is then spit on. By a country where anti-arab sentiment has been rampant over the last ten years. What the fuck do you do!?!?!

Why do you think this recent uprising has anything to do with you? What secrets do you have? Its against the very imperialist powers, that have conventiently decided to defend the comics, as freedom of speech!

Freedom of speech for who!?!?!? Oppressed peoples of the world!?!?! Fuck no, its for the beojoix democracy, and the imperialists, and their supporters. You thing george bush really gives a fuck about freedom of speech!!?!? This is the same administration that removed the major news source in Iraq, during the beggining of the imperialist war, and put in their own puppet media source headed by Donald Rumsfield!?!?! The same person who called Hugo Chavez, Hitler!?!?!?

Your perception is skewed, your being fed reactionary bullshit from mainstream media which is the sounding board for the imperialist powers. Unless you own big business, or beleive in oppression then YOU have more in common with the current Muslim Uprising than, honestly. The governments of the US, UK, across the EU, and Canada, want you to belive this is solely about the comics, that way, you forget to inquire into the possibility that the uprising is actaully about so much more, and the comics being only the final straw. Look what happened in paris, look whats happeing still to this day in Iraq, look at the Resistance in Afghanistan, look at the recent action taken by the palestinian peoples.

ITS COMING TO A BOILING POINT, THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN!

flags? embassies? What the fuck are these compared to millions of lives, and the livleyhood of millions more.

This sound like bullshit to you!?!?!?

Hit me up if you wanna talk more. There will be a demonstration on the 18th starting at the VAG and ending up at the Danish Embassy.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Robb Peppertre

Countries in that part of the world are less civilised. They blow their own problems way the fuck out of proportion. I only found out about this whole thing 10 mins ago becauce I wanted to know why the FUCK one of the flags of my heritage was being set fire to by a bunch of people waving the Pakistanian flag. What a wonderful thing to see right after watching the Opening Ceremonies.

Its a comic for fuck sakes. And everyone in this thread who's taking the side of the extremists is a fucking hypocrite. Because I guarante you've done something in the name of just joking/fucking around. And that's all the comic was... idiots.

How long have you lived in Denmark for? If its been awhile then, do you mind reiterating for the rest of the readers, what the history has been like in terms of anti-arab sentiment, over the last decade.

Then tell my why wouldnt Denmark be the starting point for this uprising, in lieau of it being solely Danish and other European states, that seem to think this uprising is about something as insignifcant as comics.

Stop simplifying, and look to the core. Whos perpetuating the notion that the recent uprising is SOLELY about the comics? Whos talking about the baseless furry of the uprising!?!? The very same imperialist focrces, that want to diverty people from digging up intel on their own part to play. The biggest PART!

Burning flags? Last time i checked, if somebody has the freedom to speak, then they have the freedom to burn a flag, or face their own flag burned.

What the fuck does the flag represent? Asides from a sense of nationalism that ignores the needs of the most oppressed people within the nation. Who are you in Denmark? What do you do? Does your government represent you? Does the mainstream media that his having their strings pulled by said government represent you? Whats burning property and flags, in the face of over 5 millions deaths, massive stravation and poverty, sanctions, military invasion, theft of resources, implementation of puppet governments, massive layoff, theft of state owned business!?!?!?!?!

Your perception is skewed.

Come to the rally on the 18th at the VAG(tentative) Ask more questions, hit me up if you want more info.

[nabs]

i am a practicing muslim, and i find that comic disgusting. its all im going to say.

[fable]

Originally Posted by nabs

i am a practicing muslim, and i find that comic disgusting. its all im going to say.

Im not, and i find them disgusting. I would disagree with the reactions if it was an isolated case, and there wasnt a decades old history of oppression of the middle eastern people, but there is, and it makes the context of the comics all the more disgusting.

Theres a protest coming up nabs, and i want to see you there. And i want to see your family and friends to. This will be a great oppurtunity to forge a stronger unity between a somewhat fractured greater muslim community here. It will also be a great arena, to get some facts, and accounts of what the score really is. Realistically in the face of oppression, and massive imperialist occupation, there needs to be, has to be a resistance, if there is ever a chance to overcome such oppression. In the fractures societies that make up the middle east, strong religeous organization is the only option. It may not be the best, but it is the only one that has a legitmate chance of surving a far stronger, better organized and infinetly funded international imperialist regime.

Im not a fan of organized religeon, truth be told. But i understand the need and the stuggles that said people entrenched in the muslim faith. Theyve had everything taken from them. All thats really left, is a waning faith. And for a slight on this waining faith to happen now, and with such support from primarily the imperialist regime, is completely atrocious.

If embassies and flags are burned in the process, so be it, these hollow symbols of nationalism and corruption mean NOTHING!

tentatively the protest will be on the 18th @ the VAG, and will march to the Danish Embassy. It is being organized by the United Muslim Youth Alliance, as well as various mosques and smaller organizations. Im trying to contact an uncle who has some respect in the BC Muslim Association too. This really needs to happen. I dont want violence, but the anger needs to be shared, to be dissected, to be empowered efficiently and safely, if possible, but IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN!

Ill keep you posted.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

I only have one question in regards to this entire situation... and I'm asking anyone of Islamic faith to be the one to answer it if possible. Please understand that I mean absolutely no offense. I'm just curious as to the answer.

Why is it when people of Islamic faith have anyone challenge them that they resort to some of the worst kind of violence?

Now I totally realize this comes off as a blanket statement but its more directed towards these radicals that flip out everytime there's a controversy. This whole deal is over a cartoon, be it one that may have been in poor taste, but a cartoon nonetheless. Is that any reason to raid embassies and attack and hurt people who have nothing to do with it? I just don't understand the logic of how hurting others will solve the problems. It's like these radicals pretty much don't allow for anyone to have an independent thought that strays from their own belief.

I have friends who are Islamic and they whole heartedly don't agree with this but if you head overseas to the Middle East there's rioting over this? It just seems that in this day and age the whole idea of a 'religious crusade' is pretty much passe. Globalization has made the world aware of hundreds if not thousands of belief systems so you figure there'd just be acceptance of people's differences. Just a silly 'hopeless dream' on my part I'm sure.... really is too bad though.

Cliched as it may be.... WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

Heh, anyone else, and id be losing my shit, but i understand the need to educate, and converse in the name of greater unity. (somewhat thanks to you)

This isnt religeous fanatasim. This isnt a crusade. This doesnt even really have to do with the comics. It has to do with people under so much oppression, its essentially do or die. It just happens that religeous organizations have been the only unified movements that have survived under the yoke of colonialism. imperialism and neo-liberalism. This is not the best representation hypothetically, but its the only one left.

People need to focus on the OBJECTIVE CONDITIONS of the middle eastern people, and need to study who is perpetating the oppression, and why. The answers will enlighten.

And we cant ALL get along, until the people who benefit and perpetuate division between the people are eliminated. Until then, its hell on earth.

[SEAN!]

regardless of free speach it was a dick move and despite what the editor's say wasnt an excersize in free speach it was an excersize in sensational provocation, straight up.

sure you have the right to say what you want but there is always consequences, these editors should use some common sense, I doubt they would call a biker a punk fag even though they have the right to, because they would get knocked out. there is no difference in this situation.

their use of freedom of speech to sell newspapers has gotten people killed

[Séguin]

Hey fable. If your so intelligent, you would have read that I have a Danish heritage.
Are you Muslim? You seem to be taking this as out of hand as them.

[elliot]

[fable]

Originally Posted by Robb Peppertre

Hey fable. If your so intelligent, you would have read that I have a Danish heritage.
Are you Muslim? You seem to be taking this as out of hand as them.

wow, nice counte. You brought up the danish heritage part, so why the whats the relevency? What was your point? That your angry about some empty bauble like a nationalist flag? This in the midst that the countries national history is steeped in anti-arab sentiment. The same country that is defending the right to publish such cartoons in some backwards, transparent campaign for freedom of speech? You do realize that the cartoons where only an insignificant symbol of the true nature, and reason for the current uprising dont you? And you also are well aware that the uprising is in resistance to imperialism, and all it has entailed in the last twenty years right?

I think you need to investigate a little deeper.

[fable]

Originally Posted by elliot

he may be funny, but hs grasp of the true nature of the most contemporary problems in the world comes from his team of writers, who are a ignorant pack of monkeys at best. His remarks were so blatantly irresponsible and callous, i dont understand where it came from. Nor do i beleive that he actaully knows what the fuck hes talking about.