those fucking comics!

[fable]

Originally Posted by automatic

no, freedom of speech for all.....

i have a hard time talking to you fable. you seem to be totally incapabable of realizing even the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the other side might have a valid point. has it ever occurred to you that seeing as how you are not, nor is anyone else, omnipotent, that that means that you might not be correct all the time? that your opinions are just that: opinions? i've got pretty strongly held beliefs, but i can still acknowledge that i don't have all the answers. that i might be just plain wrong. i can acknowledge that you may actually be correct, why is it that you can't seem to acknowledge that you might not be?

as soon as someone disagrees with you you have the habit of insulting their intelligenece or maturity. you simply can't accept the fact that others beliefs might be valid.

i 'm done debating with you, for now and always.

sela

jay

Im sorry you feel this way.

pc/ez

[fable]

Originally Posted by automatic

no, freedom of speech for all.....
jay

bullshit. if peoples freedom to protest and assemble, are suppressed, then there is NO freedom for all. You know this too.

[tiedye]

even when excercising that freedom to assemble and protest affects another's right to freedom of speech? They may have the RIGHT, but all they are trying to do is squash someone else's right. . . . .right?

[tiedye]

ahem..

"And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer. let it be."

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by fable

Ill lighten up a tad, when you pull yourself out of the Economist for a second to breath, switch off larry king, pull the National Post out of your ass, reach a finger down your throat, and puke up CNN world News (i guess that will be the second time?) and understand that in the face of what this massive uprising is about, heads need to get serious(even if they are multi-milloinare comedians)

bwhahahaha...fable that was awsome! but come on man, your equally CONSUMED in your whole revolutionary ,down with the system,'read che gueveras bioagraphy too many times' ideals as well

not saying that eaither of you are right or wrong but your both(sean!) so extremely polarized by your beleifes you guys like cancell each other out...lol.

we all have differnt veiws and opinions...so stop skewering anything thats contrary to yours with so much aggresiong and anger. its getting fucking tired.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i dont even read or beleive in half the shit you say i do, you're putting words in my mouth and with an attitude like yours you will never be successful.

NEVER BE SUCCESSFUL?

man i hate hearing bullshit things like that from bullshit people like you. there are many varying degrees of success.

just becuase someone dosent sell their soul,put on a suit and bend over to take it in the ass from the world of finance and materialism DOSE NOT mean there unsucessful.

a guy like fabel would be a great success at a revolutionary, human right rally...a guy like you is a great success at a financial meeting.

....its all relative.

[Revolver]

oh and you all might find this interesting

http://video.sympatico.msn.com/v/en-...rssimbot_en-ca

[esoter1c]

Thesis Vs Anti-thesis = Synthesis !!!!!!!:256:

[fable]

Originally Posted by revolver

bwhahahaha...fable that was awsome! but come on man, your equally CONSUMED in your whole revolutionary ,down with the system,'read che gueveras bioagraphy too many times' ideals as well

not saying that eaither of you are right or wrong but your both(sean!) so extremely polarized by your beleifes you guys like cancell each other out...lol.

we all have differnt veiws and opinions...so stop skewering anything thats contrary to yours with so much aggresiong and anger. its getting fucking tired.

No can do. This polarization you speak on, is a direct result of a) oppression, and b) the resistance to it. It has to happen. And in a positive case scenario, this "cancelling out" you speal of, is tangibly, in reality, the end of such state sponsored oppression. Its an us/them reality. Sooner or later, one will have to choose sides. Perhaps at the moment it may seem we have the luxary to converse, and operate in a best case scenario, but this is only temporary as well. Reality based hypthesis, and decision making, will be neccessary, and sometimes the necessary evil.

Please note (and im sure its the same with sean!) That i read, and study the largest spectrum of knowledge and experience possible. I DO READ THE ECONOMIST, take a look at stock reports, and like to know who the movers and shakers are in the capital gains universe. I try my utmost best, to not just know classic revolutionary methods, but hybid, evolutionary processes as well. Its important to know the enemy, as well as any perceived roadblocks. Its seems to me that Sean! takes a vested interest, into the things that I take as common place, and true, as well. He may be an asshole, and someone who is the antithesis of my beliefs, but hes definetly NOT unintelligent.

[fable]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Thesis Vs Anti-thesis = Synthesis !!!!!!!:256:

okay, okay, but were not debating in terms of hypotheses. Its straight up REALITY, illustrating objective conditions, and ignorance of such conditions, and subsequent response.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by fable

bullshit. if peoples freedom to protest and assemble, are suppressed, then there is NO freedom for all. You know this too.

Freedom of speech, fine.

Freedom to protest, great!

Freedom to burn buildings, to destroy and attack western businesses (that represent countries uninvolved in even Iraq and this whole thing) absolutely not!

People should be free to express their feelings (and yes that does include people championing freedom of speech, wether you choose to respect that or not) without damaging property, or compromising a single person's safety.

And we all can agree, this is your ideal (where people are free to assemble and protest) gone horribly wrong.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Freedom of speech, fine.

Freedom to protest, great!

Freedom to burn buildings, to destroy and attack western businesses (that represent countries uninvolved in even Iraq and this whole thing) absolutely not!

People should be free to express their feelings (and yes that does include people championing freedom of speech, wether you choose to respect that or not) without damaging property, or compromising a single person's safety.

And we all can agree, this is your ideal (where people are free to assemble and protest) gone horribly wrong.

What building were burnt? Whos interests did the businesses in them represents? Did these businesses have their hands clean?

In an ideal world we understand that violence begets violence, and that we should be able to protest and demonstrate safely and respectively, but if the enemy/oppressor/antogonist is who they are, and doing what they are doing(i figure ive eloborated on what this entails enough?) all bets are off.

You know the score myra, and you know what this all the uprising and rage is a direct product of. So when you make a statement of the way things "should be" put yourself in the landscape first.

Lets focus on the root.(or weeds i should say) Cut these out, destroy the environment and racist/oppressive structures(sometime represented by actaully literally destroying the physical representations) and then we can talk about civility amongst the regular masses.

I go back to the idea, that the mainstream media, is bringing this uprising to the doorsteps of the regular masses of the west as "evil," "radical," and a threat new western "democracy" When in fact these people wage the same struggle that poor/immigrant/indegenous/refugee peoples have here.

If we are going to speak in terms of going with the majority, then it should be noted that the previous groups mentioned are in fact the majority, but through the various structures, and legislature, they have the least voice.

The mainstream media is the fourth arm of government. Governments that are diverting responsibiltu and essentially fillebustering on a massive political scale. Its seems to be working with some.

[miss.myra]

buildings burnt? Try a few Danish embassies!

Remember these cartoons were certainly not the voice of the Danish government!

[automatic]

^oh, but they were, because according to fable the newspapers that printed them are all part of the same establishment, so therefore it was all part of an orchestrated conspiracy!

perhaps now you see why i've given up.
fable=

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by revolver

NEVER BE SUCCESSFUL?

man i hate hearing bullshit things like that from bullshit people like you. there are many varying degrees of success.

just becuase someone dosent sell their soul,put on a suit and bend over to take it in the ass from the world of finance and materialism DOSE NOT mean there unsucessful.

a guy like fabel would be a great success at a revolutionary, human right rally...a guy like you is a great success at a financial meeting.

....its all relative.

i didnt mean successful in that sense

[esoter1c]

I'd much rather see some buildings and windows being smashed/burned than humans.

Who the fuck cares about a fucking piece of concrete or glass !?

Really.

Protests need more molotovs.

As long as no one gets hurt.

Burn the whole fuckin' planet to the ground.

okay, okay, but were not debating in terms of hypotheses. Its straight up REALITY, illustrating objective conditions, and ignorance of such conditions, and subsequent response.

It's all one sides view versus the other sides view.

Our way vs their way.

Everything is someones idea, some cultures idea, some religions idea of how the world/people/civilization should be.

We can all post our memes all day long.

It doesn't do a fucking thing in reality.

I fully support the destruction of any and all gov't institutions/facilities.

But I'm a crazy fuck that subscribes to the ideaologies of the unabomber and John Zerzan.

WW3 is gonna send us all back to the primitive.

This is a war to last centuries.

That's straight outta cheneys mouth.

So while we're all safe n warm in Canader real people are destroying real symbols of power and oppression which has lasted for centuries.

It's not just a fucking embassy.

It's a symbol of western mans thoughts/beliefs in another region where those thoughts/beliefs are hated vehemently.

This is just a piss in the ocean of the chaos and insanity to come.

[fable]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

I'd much rather see some buildings and windows being smashed/burned than humans.

Who the fuck cares about a fucking piece of concrete or glass !?

Really.

Protests need more molotovs.

As long as no one gets hurt.

Burn the whole fuckin' planet to the ground.


It's all one sides view versus the other sides view.

Our way vs their way.

Everything is someones idea, some cultures idea, some religions idea of how the world/people/civilization should be.

We can all post our memes all day long.

It doesn't do a fucking thing in reality.

I fully support the destruction of any and all gov't institutions/facilities.

But I'm a crazy fuck that subscribes to the ideaologies of the unabomber and John Zerzan.

WW3 is gonna send us all back to the primitive.

This is a war to last centuries.

That's straight outta cheneys mouth.

So while we're all safe n warm in Canader real people are destroying real symbols of power and oppression which has lasted for centuries.

It's not just a fucking embassy.

It's a symbol of western mans thoughts/beliefs in another region where those thoughts/beliefs are hated vehemently.

This is just a piss in the ocean of the chaos and insanity to come.

I agree with you! 100% But what i dont understand( i have no problem admitting this contrary to some idiots beliefs) is the simplification of said conflict to just one sentence, revolving around their view vs our view?? Whether its words, or fighting in the street, it will come from a specific belief.

A belief, that some(including me) are willing to go all the way for. And im sure there are others who feel the same way with opposing views. I have no illusions about this. I know it will come down to an all out battle in one respect or another.

I guess really what im saying ,is i know its about "one side vs another" One oppressing or supporting that oppression, the other fighting against it, anywhere, everywhere, anyhow, anyway.

Who gets up first?

[fable]

Originally Posted by automatic

^oh, but they were, because according to fable the newspapers that printed them are all part of the same establishment, so therefore it was all part of an orchestrated conspiracy!

perhaps now you see why i've given up.
fable=

Im going to tell you this only once jay - If your going to refer to my words, or what is truth "according" to me, then make sure are correct, otherwise i will take it as you are trying to spread rumour, and misinformation, and i will respond acordingly.

Heres the coles notes on what i believe:

The simple fact is that whatever the cartoons WHERE, are completely different from what they ARE due to the current context of the planet in relation to IMPERIALIST OPPRESSION!

Perhaps the cartoons where harmless in nature, but nothing happens in a bubble, nothing is free from the context in it is released in, whether by shear coincidence or on purpose.

In case you missed it the first hundred times, the context im talking about is IMPERIALISM. The active, and purposeful suppression and oppression of third world nations rich in natural resources, that have either already seen their native societies fractured by colonialist rule in the past or in the present.

Dispute this?

As a result of an accelerating air of desperation that finds either failing or corrupt native leftist groups, an increasing insolvent United Nations/Security Council, a rising anti-arab sentiment as a result of all out Imperialist Mass Media Campaigns, corrupt foreign governments, the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, are left with VERY LITTLE CHOICE. This desperation is compounded by the fact that a portion of supporters of their struggles in the WEST think in idealistic terms, and speak in a rhetoric that has no respect or understanding of the environment said oppressed peoples live in.

Dispute this?

I dont give a shit about cartoons, I dont give a shit if you can talk to me or not. Your used to some sort of coffee house bullshit discussion, that means nothing, challenges nothing, and is part and parcel of the level of inactivity of "progressive" groups in this continent. Personally, if people want to call the prophet mohammed a jackass, or a fag, or a bitch, or whatever, i dont give a shit anymore! I dont give a shit about religeon, i dont give a shit about being polite. I care about the people, that this "Extreme fundementalist religeon" is representing. And if that means shitting on our bullshit perceptions of whos freedoms are really being threatened here in N.America, home of hypocricy, then so be it.

ONCE AGAIN, THE CURRENT STRUGGLE AND UPRISING HAS TO DO WITH WHAT I JUST MENTIONED, AND IN THIS LANDSCAPE, OUR CUSHY N.AMERICAN SENTIMENTS ON WHAT FREEDOM IS, MEANS NOTHING, FUCK ALL NOTHING.

Is this clear enough for your thick balding head jay? This sounds NOTHING like your perceived, (and shared) opinion of what you think i was trying to say, or believe.

You want to stay out of debate, fine, you have all the right to, i will not harass or belittle you because of this, but you bring up my name, its on.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

buildings burnt? Try a few Danish embassies!

Remember these cartoons were certainly not the voice of the Danish government!

I could give two fucks about the Danish Embassies. And although the Danish government did not orchestrate these cartoons, they being part of the EU, and allies of the US in their endevours towards IRAN and SYRIA, are taking full oppurtunity to twist this whole situation around, and making the current uprsing sound like its solely an attack on peoples freedom of speech, and bringing it to the doorsteps, that the uprising could care less about.

[miss.myra]

Um these people are burning embassies in retaliation to the comics, though.

[fable]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Um these people are burning embassies in retaliation to the comics, though.

I disagree. I think the initial catalyst was the cartoons, but the rage has been bottled up for over 20 years.

Once again, what does an embassy stand for?

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Um these people are burning embassies in retaliation to the comics, though.

Meh They targeted KFC



Then they went apeshit because that wasn't enough for then. So instead they went after McDonalds....


So now apparently Ronald Mcdonald is an effigy over a danish cartoon.... What next Garfield gets beheaded or calvin and Hob's get blown away from and IED????

[esoter1c]

I love the people tryin to say it's all over a cartoon.

I think it runs a lil' bit deeper than that.

RE:Religion in the past 2000 years.

RE:War on "Terror".

Yeah, thx.:250

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

I love the people tryin to say it's all over a cartoon.

I think it runs a lil' bit deeper than that.

RE:Religion in the past 2000 years.

RE:War on "Terror".

Yeah, thx.:250

as i said earlier...its like the crusades have never ended.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by fable

Your omparing two religeons, and completely forgetting to put into the context the oppression that people who follow such a religeon are going through at the hands of imperialist governments. Governments that have orchestrated a massive divisionary and destractionary smokescreen that youve inhaled directly up your nose.

Think for a second, before you go off, and risk spewing some Islamaphone bullshit. Christiainity and what they have done, or not done, is irrelevent.

Who is represented in the recent muslim communities uprising?
What countries do they hail from?
What has been going on in these countries?
Who has been orchestrating these actions in these countries and under what banner?

If you have everything taken away from you, yor jobs, lives of friends and family, your homes, your livelyhood, no food, no water, no education, but a massive occupation force, a puppet government, and a foreign government that is telling the rest of the world theyre helping you, all the while stealing your state owned resources and selling them as if they belong to them.....
now times this over 2 fucking decades!!! ll you have left is a crumbling faith in a leader who united people, and was stong in his leadership ages ago. And that is then spit on. By a country where anti-arab sentiment has been rampant over the last ten years. What the fuck do you do!?!?!

Why do you think this recent uprising has anything to do with you? What secrets do you have? Its against the very imperialist powers, that have conventiently decided to defend the comics, as freedom of speech!

Freedom of speech for who!?!?!? Oppressed peoples of the world!?!?! Fuck no, its for the beojoix democracy, and the imperialists, and their supporters. You thing george bush really gives a fuck about freedom of speech!!?!? This is the same administration that removed the major news source in Iraq, during the beggining of the imperialist war, and put in their own puppet media source headed by Donald Rumsfield!?!?! The same person who called Hugo Chavez, Hitler!?!?!?

Your perception is skewed, your being fed reactionary bullshit from mainstream media which is the sounding board for the imperialist powers. Unless you own big business, or beleive in oppression then YOU have more in common with the current Muslim Uprising than, honestly. The governments of the US, UK, across the EU, and Canada, want you to belive this is solely about the comics, that way, you forget to inquire into the possibility that the uprising is actaully about so much more, and the comics being only the final straw. Look what happened in paris, look whats happeing still to this day in Iraq, look at the Resistance in Afghanistan, look at the recent action taken by the palestinian peoples.

ITS COMING TO A BOILING POINT, THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN!

flags? embassies? What the fuck are these compared to millions of lives, and the livleyhood of millions more.

This sound like bullshit to you!?!?!?

Hit me up if you wanna talk more. There will be a demonstration on the 18th starting at the VAG and ending up at the Danish Embassy.

Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, laced with
invective, as expected from someone who lacks a logical argument.

What a inappropriate analogy.