Is Ottawa listening in? No one seems to care

[fable]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

The RCMP and the Military are separate Organizations. When it comes to the enforcement of the Criminal Code of Canada it is handled by the Military Police. Not the RCMP. Chances are if these People were picked up in such a spectacular manner there would have been a little more heard from other People other than this website that you linked to. C'mon, even average citizens would be talking about it. I know when I see a bunch of Police Officers outside a Building or grabbing them off the Street I'm going to definetly talk to someone about it, or hell even post it on here to see if anyone else heard about it. I'd have to disagree about us being well on our way to being a Police State. If you can have this argument and not be rounded up and tortured for your possible involvement in an anti-government conspiracy I'd say we have a long way to go. Sleep well tonight young man, the Gestapo isn't coming for you.

I've mentioned numerous events and happenings that would fall under the category of events/acts of oppression that you are or where completely oblivious too in this thread alone. You being one of 1000's of others just as unaware.

>People stood by and watched 17 sundancers have 70 000 rounds of bullets rained down on them in Gustafson Lake in the nineties, while the RCMP was able to get a complete media blackout. Today with the case of the Toronto 17, after a full week of uncontested sensationalist slander campaign the prosecution was able to approach the courts a full media black out as well.

>5 middle eastern/Arabic men where held in solitary confinement for almost a year under Canadian Security Certificates, before becoming widespread knowledge in the mass media and general public. One wife of one of the imprisoned had a website, grassroots campaign, and desperate media appeals going 24 hrs a day for that period of time.

>Canadian government was talking about the need to see President Aristade of Haiti removed for their own interests as early as the time of the Meech Lake Accord, whereas the general citizenry of this Country has no real understanding of what was going on Haiti until an RCMP officers (a retired RCMP officer no less - who was part of a 125 officer force in charge of supervising and training the Haitian National Police) returned home dead. This almost a year after Canadian special forces the JTF2 held the Haitian National Airport secure while US special forces kidnapped President Aristade

You talk about how if there was in fact a basis for what djmarkpaul was talking about, that people in this country would be talking about it and yet you do not acknowledge the sources WHO ARE. It is not an issue about a lack of dialogue about specific happenings, its about the fact that YOU ARE OBLIVIOUS TO THEM.

I think you're intelligent enough to understand that behind the three examples I just provided for you and any other reader, I have thousands more, and sooner or later you will realize that its no longer about providing more facts, more opinion, more context and more visibility, but rather it will fall on the shoulders of arrogant citizens like you to start paying attention.

But that begs the question... why would I really care? I've got much more important things to do than track down some Guy that obviously has some pretty crazy ideas about the Government being after him. Who knows, maybe he was involved in a possible conspiracy? The Government wouldn't go after some random regular joe, he must have done something to piss someone off.

Then why not reference better sources?

Me Paranoid? I'm not the one worried about Ottawa listening into my Phone as I order Pizza and call my job to see when my Shifts are. I've got nothing to hide. Big fucking deal. Once I have a conspiracy or something to blow up, I'll take things underground. *insert rolling of the eyes here*

OoOo so have I... want a Cookie? The point of that was to illustrate that any regular Citizen will never have full access to any of those facilities. Access Control and Security Clearances and Guards are there for a reason. Oh yeah, that's not an Alien Spacecraft in the Q at the end of Runway 11/29 in Comox, it's only two CF-18s. I don't really know, but I'm pretty sure you can't be that important if you're debating with me over issues like this on a Raver Website.

What are you doing? You keep mentioning how specific ideas and comments are irrelevant because they are on a Raver board, but why? I thought we were talking about getting information to the masses? Wouldn’t that mean anywhere and everywhere? After all the stakes are human lives right? And what of your part to play? You've made a good account of your own debative ability (more specifically your lack of) in this thread.

What can I say, conflict makes the World go 'round. It's just sometimes I wonder how some of you People can be so paranoid or critical of your Country when you have all this Freedom. Social Support and are way better of than many other Nations. I'd be happy. Not pissed off. Just because you have to pay Taxes and have the safety of a Police Force and crazed motherfuckers like me defending your Country doesn't mean you have to be paranoid.

You are defending me!?
>You are a self proclaimed middle class nationalist, you are severely ill informed about issues in the Indigenous, Immigrant and refugee communities. And I’m supposed to think that your beliefs have anything to do with the best interests of me or mentioned communities?

"Conflict makes the world go round???"
>Are you trying to be glib or profound? Either case, this statement is actually true. Conflict fuels capitalism, and capitalism creates conflict. But what does your mentioning of this mean? It is, therefore we must accept it? Well I guess that would be easy for someone like you to say? Because once again I must expose your own position in society, and your lack of any peripheral knowledge outside your own social circles, ethnicity, economic standing or the mainstream news.

Be so critical of a country that affords me freedoms?
>What does this really mean? Historically this comment has always, always been the polite way of saying, "if you dissent, if you speak out, if the rattle the cage, you will get bitten"

You also mentioned in a previous post that one should not live in the past. (of course being completely irrelevant in the context of what we are talking about and essentially a lie) And yet I cant help but point out, that just like you have massive blinders on to contemporary issues, you also wear them for what has happened in the past. As a matter of fact I’m starting to wonder if you are part of a contigent of young men in this country that have lived such sheltered lives, and followed blindly and patriotically in a bid to fit in and find acceptance. YAY you know a lot about the military, AND YAY you are a good shot with a rifle or gun, and YAY you wave a flag! But you are shallow, and arrogant. Your words are reminiscient of a bully in school who beats up other kids, because of their own insecurities, confusion and demoralization. Except in your case, you don’t even really commit any serious oppressive acts. You don’t even have the skills or talents, to be "mastah" Your an ideological lackey. You are the small child that HIDES BEHIND THE BULLY.

When everything gets stripped YOU hold onto what you believes will give you identity, purpose and pride easily and quick. You may have undertaken a lot of hard work in your life, to prepare for RMC, or to learn to fly and yet you failed to undertake the most difficult task. Challenging your own beliefs consistently for as long as you live. As you said, "you have better things to do."

You'd be surprised. Yes, it's called a SIN Number. You can get an amazing amount of information from them. Hell if they pulled mine, I bet they'd have a huge folder of what I've done in the past. In fact, I know that I've been checked upon many times as I've been through numerous Background Checks and Security Clearances.

I’m thinking this is because of either your current career aspirations or experience with firearms and such? I promise you I've had my background "checked" a thousand times more than you, and I've never fired a rifle or gun legally, flown a jet/plane or ever enlisted for military training. Most of the time my "background checks" came as a result of who I am, the color of my skin, the Sanskrit on my arm, or what I believe in. "Background checks" mean two completely different things in our seperate lives.

I never had a disagreement with them. They were doing excellent work... their pushing through of the Global Anti-Personnel Mine Ban was one project that I myself spent a lot of time helping out on. In fact if I could have a chance to Volunteer with them again here in Ontario I would.

That’s great! True soft leftist work (somewhat ironic?) at its best. Go after the symptoms, but raise hell when someone tries to tackle the core head on. You know why this is done? So people can feel good about themselves. Feel like they’ve contributed. Perhaps even further their own career aspirations. In some intangible way, I bet some people do it to save their own souls. All of these are commendable and I guess could be respected reasons. But they do nothing for past victims or the victims to be, if the context or root cause of such symptoms are no exposed and dealt with.

Actually, bringing up Iraq and other issues when we're talking about people being "captured and tortured in Ottawa" is just distracting from the point. Ottawa and Baghdad are two different issues.

No. They are CONNECTED. Because the sentiment amongst the masses here, influences what could happen there. Afghanistan is my primary reference.

You missed the Boat on that one didn't you? Basically I said... why is it only about 3 or 4 of you Guys that post the same kind of Boards all the time here? Don't you have another e-Sandbox to do that in? I know I'm not the only one that they wear on.

And yet you reply with the same boisterous enthusiasm as you proclaim we do? If you delve into my own life you will find out that the writing on this board pails in significance or rate when compared to all the other work I carry on. First you attack, then you maneuver, then you misdirect, then you insult, then you spew, then you retreat, then you call out. You have no basis for your beliefs. And after trying to put them forth with some integrity or legitimacy you fall back onto old tactics, "Why here?" "Where is your tinfoil hat?" "You're wearing on me?"

I’m going to tell you this very very clearly. I will NEVER stop.

'cause you know, we're fighting tons of Wars. Yeah... our Troops are streaming to the fronts and our national treasury is being bled dry. What? OH! That's the United States. What's the big mess with our Legislation? You're pissed about the GST? The Gun Registry? The raising of the age of Consent?

I don’t even understand this? What is the point you are trying to make?

I don't feel that Canada is under any threat of any imminence. I've heard what you said above... I can say, I'm happy to be Canadian and not American. WOO HA!

Reactionary.

It's still better off than it was. Would you rather those people went back to the way they were before? Checkpoints are there because People other than the regular citizenry are trying to kill Canadians and other allied Soldiers that are trying to help the People there.

Reactionary. Ill informed. Based on lies, mainstream media and propaganda.

-There are currently over 600, 000 displaced Afghan Refugees.
-At least a 1000 children have been killed from direct coalition soldier fire.(most of which are through the course of checkpoint oppression)
-Afghanistan has the worst literacy rate in the world.
-The life expectancy collectively for both sexes has dropped 4.5 years since 2001
-Almost all major roads, clean water systems, and electricity providers are disintegrated

__First it was because of 9/11. Then there was a US shift to Iraq because of WMD's and removing the president.
__Then Canada lead forces in Afghanistan and Haiti for peacekeeping. The Canadian government announced a need to put Canada on the world map and protect "Canadian interests" in Afghanistan and Haiti.
__Three separate RCMP contingents are operating in Iraq, Afghanistan and Haiti
__Violence and death and poverty increase 100x's over in Iraq, Haiti, and Afghanistan
__2006 sees the MOST aggressive coalition imperialist attacks to date. And yet these situations where supposed to be put to bed 5 years ago. There has been NO significant reconstruction in Iraq, Haiti or Afghanistan
__Collectively there are at least 3 million unemployed peoples in these three nations
__lastly as mentioned countless times before, attacks on Immigrants, refugees, Indigenous peoples INCREASE AT HOME

And all the while a young man, who's writing reeks of his mothers breast milk, holds a flag in one hand, a rifle in the other, proudly wearing horse blinders dirt packed tightly in his ears, and a hollow feeling in his heart and soul that he tells no one about.

Do YOURSELF a favor. Study up on the true distinction between what you believe is a patriot, and what has been the historical example of a revolutionary. I think at some point you will realize that it is fact the revolutionaries in the past, who have operated from a real love for their nation, and it was the patriot who is and was motivated by self interest.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by fable

I think you're intelligent enough to understand that behind the three examples I just provided for you and any other reader, I have thousands more, and sooner or later you will realize that its no longer about providing more facts, more opinion, more context and more visibility, but rather it will fall on the shoulders of arrogant citizens like you to start paying attention.

At least in arguing with you I get information. It's a somewhat diluted and odd way to do it but you can rest be assured I've started picking through some more things

Originally Posted by fable

What are you doing? You keep mentioning how specific ideas and comments are irrelevant because they are on a Raver board, but why? I thought we were talking about getting information to the masses? Wouldn’t that mean anywhere and everywhere? After all the stakes are human lives right? And what of your part to play? You've made a good account of your own debative ability (more specifically your lack of) in this thread.

I'm just saying there's a place for everything. And when it's an Arena where Threads like "Which is better, Pepsi or Coke" and "OMGIRAVEDSOHARDIATETWOHUNDREDPILLS" I would think there was a better audience.

Originally Posted by fable

You are defending me!?

Nope. djmarkpaul actually. Note who the post was addressed to.

Originally Posted by fable

"Conflict makes the world go round???" ... this statement is actually true. Conflict fuels capitalism, and capitalism creates conflict. But what does your mentioning of this mean? It is, therefore we must accept it? Well I guess that would be easy for someone like you to say? Because once again I must expose your own position in society, and your lack of any peripheral knowledge outside your own social circles, ethnicity, economic standing or the mainstream news.

Well I'm still right. heh ;)

You can't deny human Nature. I finished reading "War" by Gwynne Dyer, it's an intersting history and look at Human Conflict since Humans existed. Might want to check it out. Conflict is here to stay, it's the way things are. We'll always find something to fight about. Wether we be Capitalist or not.

Originally Posted by fable

Be so critical of a country that affords me freedoms?
>What does this really mean? Historically this comment has always, always been the polite way of saying, "if you dissent, if you speak out, if the rattle the cage, you will get bitten"

Basically what I'm saying is. We've got it good here... what's the problem?

Originally Posted by fable

But you are shallow, and arrogant. Your words are reminiscient of a bully in school who beats up other kids, because of their own insecurities, confusion and demoralization. Except in your case, you don’t even really commit any serious oppressive acts. You don’t even have the skills or talents, to be "mastah" Your an ideological lackey. You are the small child that HIDES BEHIND THE BULLY.

So should I go commit some serious oppressive acts then?

Originally Posted by fable

When everything gets stripped YOU hold onto what you believes will give you identity, purpose and pride easily and quick. You may have undertaken a lot of hard work in your life, to prepare for RMC, or to learn to fly and yet you failed to undertake the most difficult task. Challenging your own beliefs consistently for as long as you live. As you said, "you have better things to do."

All the hard work I've undertaken has been to help me as a person. My Future is one of my main priorities. I will do what I can to make sure I succeed. Arrogant, sometimes, driven, most of the time. Look after #1.

Originally Posted by fable

I’m thinking this is because of either your current career aspirations or experience with firearms and such? I promise you I've had my background "checked" a thousand times more than you, and I've never fired a rifle or gun legally, flown a jet/plane or ever enlisted for military training. Most of the time my "background checks" came as a result of who I am, the color of my skin, the Sanskrit on my arm, or what I believe in. "Background checks" mean two completely different things in our seperate lives.

That's because I'm not you. Of course it'll be different... I presume you've come to Canada from somewhere else? Can you guess why Immigration Canada might want to sceen people thoroughly before admitting them? No offense to you or wherever you come from, but you have to have some basic requirements and check out of People coming from elsewhere. There are limits, I do agree, but like Airport Security, everyone's got to do it.

Originally Posted by fable

That’s great! True soft leftist work (somewhat ironic?) at its best. Go after the symptoms, but raise hell when someone tries to tackle the core head on. You know why this is done? So people can feel good about themselves. Feel like they’ve contributed. Perhaps even further their own career aspirations. In some intangible way, I bet some people do it to save their own souls. All of these are commendable and I guess could be respected reasons. But they do nothing for past victims or the victims to be, if the context or root cause of such symptoms are no exposed and dealt with.

The only way to help those past victims would have to be prevent all those Wars and Mines being planted. Which unless you've got a Time Machine is impossible. At least it protects the future Generations. I did it because I cared and it was something tangible, I could see and understand. Like I said I'd do more work but I don't have any of my Contacts in Ontario.

Originally Posted by fable

If you delve into my own life you will find out that the writing on this board pails in significance or rate when compared to all the other work I carry on.

Then carry on good Sir! If this is the least important and has the smallest pay-off, why continue?

Originally Posted by fable

I’m going to tell you this very very clearly. I will NEVER stop.

Don't ever stop your good work. Just on here it might be a waste of time. Again, no offense.

Originally Posted by fable

-There are currently over 600, 000 displaced Afghan Refugees.
-At least a 1000 children have been killed from direct coalition soldier fire.(most of which are through the course of checkpoint oppression)
-Afghanistan has the worst literacy rate in the world.
-The life expectancy collectively for both sexes has dropped 4.5 years since 2001
-Almost all major roads, clean water systems, and electricity providers are disintegrated

Okay, so you want all Allied Forces to pull out of Afghanistan completely. Then what happens to the Country? Actually, Country wouldn't even apply to it... With no functioning Government or regulating Body of any sort. Like things would improve right away. Somehow I doubt it.

Originally Posted by fable

Do YOURSELF a favor. Study up on the true distinction between what you believe is a patriot, and what has been the historical example of a revolutionary. I think at some point you will realize that it is fact the revolutionaries in the past, who have operated from a real love for their nation, and it was the patriot who is and was motivated by self interest.

I can think of a couple examples that validate that statement. I'm not about to go compiling a Band of Revolutionaries in Canada though. You can, but sorry, if for some reason I end up having to land a Chopper loaded with the tools disperse a Protest or Riot... I'm just carrying out what I'm supposed to do.

And on that note! I now permanently vacate from this Thread.

It's been a slice, and you have opened my eyes to a couple new issues and things that I will investigate some more. But as well, you might want to take an unbiased look from the point-of-view of one of "us" and see why we might think the way we do.

Love, Peace and Chicken Grease... It's been a slice and a bit of verbal and mental Gymnastics but I strangely enjoyed it.

- Erik

[prozac]

Originally Posted by tiedye

You're right.. apparently it was Lockheed Martin, a weapons manufacturer.

I brought that up months ago and no-one cared.

[Mangle]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

I'm done with you People. It's not fair when I'm the only one getting attention from you and djmarkpaul. All I need is Mangle to hop in on this "Racist Gangbang" but hey, I'm male and only have two holes so I guess he'll have to wait his turn eh?

You couldn't handle my dick anyway, nazi.
PS. How do you "REFERENCES AT ME AND NAZISM?"

Originally Posted by fable

ITS NOT FAIR!?!?!?! HAHAHAHA! Hey, your preaching to the choir when you talk about being ganged up on. You think Im a stranger to this myself? What about Mangle? As for djmarkpaul, he was getting gang scrutinized far before I came to these parts. SO get a grip homie.

Pretty much. Sometimes you eat the bar...