Photos of Lebanon

[Jonny Dubbs]

Originally Posted by Ever666

Not alone, multiple parties are accountable for the suffering in this situation not just one which you seem to be trying to say.

I’m not arguing with the fact multiple parties are accountable for the situation in its entirety. However Israel is solely responsible for its inappropriate use of force against civilians in Lebanon.

[Clayton.]

You have a very biased opinion.

[Jonny Dubbs]

lol and what is my opinion? I don’t think I’ve expressed myself enough on this board for you to come to that conclusion.

[Clayton.]

Actually you've expressed yourself in this thread enough for me to come to that conclusion.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by Jonny Dubbs

I’m not arguing with the fact multiple parties are accountable for the situation in its entirety. However Israel is solely responsible...

Wait wait wait... read that again... slowly from the top.

Break it down now...

"Multiple Parties are accountable for the situation in its entirety."

"Israel is soley responsible..."

Hmm... curious... WATSON! WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?!

[Jonny Dubbs]

huh? lol nice play on words there pal.
Are you saying inappropriate use of force against civilians in Lebanon is a justified response?

[Clayton.]

You clearly have no real knowledge on this situation.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by Jonny Dubbs

huh? lol nice play on words there pal.
Are you saying inappropriate use of force against civilians in Lebanon is a justified response?

What I'm saying is that they are not using force deliberately against Civilians but in fact in direct response to the actions of the Hezbollah.

They warn the Civilians of areas that are going to be Bombed for the reasons of having hostile installations in the proximity of them. If they don't leave, they can't say they didn't warn them.

Did you know the Hezbollah fires hundreds of Rockets directly into the middle of Haifa and other Israeli Cities without warning or prior notice? They aren't even attacking Military Installations but just civilian Marketplaces, Schools and Office Buildings.

I'd say they're right justified to nailing the Hezbollah. You kill my Civilians, I'm going to fucking shit-kick the heartless bastards that did it. At least Israel targets the people doing the killing and warns the innocent.

Do some reading.

[Jonny Dubbs]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

What I'm saying is that they are not using force deliberately against Civilians but in fact in direct response to the actions of the Hezbollah.

You just agreed with me that Israel is carrying out collective punishment as a response to the actions of the Hezbollah. You feel that is a justified response. I do not.

Did you know the Hezbollah fires hundreds of Rockets directly into the middle of Haifa and other Israeli Cities without warning or prior notice? They aren't even attacking Military Installations but just civilian Marketplaces, Schools and Office Buildings.

Yes I do know that, in fact I mentioned it in one of the previous posts.

[mapleleaf4ever]

It's not collective punishment if People don't heed warnings to evacuate actually.

[Jonny Dubbs]

“Israel should warn people of attacks, but those warnings can’t be used to justify harming civilians who remain,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch. “Civilians who can’t evacuate are still fully protected by international law.”

“The Israeli military is telling civilians to leave, but the casualties caused by its attacks on the roads have made many people too frightened to travel,” Whitson said.

International humanitarian law requires armed forces to give “effective advance warning” of attacks when circumstances permit. However, even after warnings have been given, these forces must still take all feasible precautions to avoid loss of civilian life. This includes canceling an attack when it becomes apparent that the target is civilian or that the civilian loss would be disproportionate to the expected military gain.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/20/lebano13786.htm

[mojo]

fuck, i think you all should put your dicks back in your pants and stop concentrating on who is right and wrong in this stupid online info war.
"i know more then you, you know nothing, do some reading..."

shut the fuck up already. i think everyone here is concerned about the innocent people being injured and killed, and unless you focus on that aspect of this chaos nothing will ever be resolved.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Unfortunately the Law also protects the Enemy in that Situation.

That's why like I've already said... THEY HIDE LIKE COWARDS AMONGST CIVILIANS BECAUSE OF THE PROTECTION IT AFFORDS THEM.

*knocks on the monitor* Hello? Testing?

You have to draw the line somewhere, and if you accidently kill a few People but save the lives of hundreds more... Israel can accept that. When you have powerful Friends in the International Community you get more leeway.

This includes canceling an attack when it becomes apparent that the target is civilian or that the civilian loss would be disproportionate to the expected military gain.

So you want to apply the Law to Israel and not the Hezbollah then? Interesting. Technically if they hadn't kidnapped and been rocketing Cities, they would have been left alone.

[Jonny Dubbs]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

So you want to apply the Law to Israel and not the Hezbollah then? Interesting.

I'm sorry I don’t recall stating that Hezbollah should not be accountable to international law, can you point out that part of the conversation to me? I’ve already stated I don’t think either side is just in the conflict.

[Diamonite]

These two have been fighting for a long time. The Lebanese made a move finally that really pissed off Israel. Now Israel is making it's move. I say leave them be. Israel could crush them if they wanted with their airforce. I don't want a debate. This is my opinion.

[neoh]

I blame rap music.

[fable]

Questions to ask:

>Why did Israel invade Lebanon? Why did Israel invade Lebanon in 82?

>Why did Israel earlier invade Palestine?

>What is, or what was the relationship between Hamas and Israel and Hizbollah and Israel?

>What is Israel?

>What has Israel been doing in Palestine for the last 58 years?

>What nations are the direct and excusive economic lifelines for Israel?

>What is the relationships between Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon and Indigenous peoples in Canada?

>What does Imperialism really mean? Who does it impact? How?

>What is the legitimecy of a US/Israel denouncement of Syria and Iran, when the US (and Canada) are the economic lifelines of Israel? What is the legitimacey in the face of 58 years of Zionist/Apatheid rules?

Recent Facts:

>the number of deaths in Lebanon to date is actaully closer to 600

>there are a reported 150 to 200 civilians still buried under rubble

>there are 1780 serious injuries of Lebonese people or "tourists" in Lebanon

>there are close to 150 000 Lebonese refugees in Syria

>the US made a block against a call for a ceasefire as well as blocked the UN statement about the recent UN outpost being hit in an Israel bombing raid, and then turned around and threatened Syria (who they have been pulling US citizens out of for the last two months) and Iran

Opinions:

The comments of maplelead mean shit. They dont relate to anything, and they dont include any context or history. Yes there has been casualties on both sides, and yes both sides have targeted civilians, but to use "terrorism" as a comment means nothing and holds no validity. If we take into consideration the 58 year oppression of Palestine by Israel, then why are we talking about Israeli deaths by Hizbollah rockets? What the fuck does it mean in light of millions upon millions of dead and displaced at the Hands of the US and Israel.

Israel is nothing but a legitimate front for zionist/apartheid rule, and protecting US interests and now Canadian interests in the middle east. The mainstream media has, and always has potrayed any conflict in the middle east in favour of the US(now canada) and Israel.

[Clayton.]

Interesting read.^

[fable]

.

Originally Posted by Ever666

Interesting read.^

The answers are even more interesting.

I want to clarify that ANY civilian casualties of war are terrible. But if we are going to talk in terms of creating awareness as a means to produce a movement for change, then we need to look at the core - and the core if Israel is as putrid, rotten and disgusting as you get.

Israel as the political basis of Zionism exploited and manipulated oppressed and attacked Jewish people into a mechanism to overtake Palestine, and still do to this day. They used their propaganda and turned Palestine into a "nation without people, for a people without a nation" And yet there was anywhere between 600 000 to 1.3 million Arabic Muslims already living their. Even the Jewish peoples where hand selected themselves - where safaric (or dark-skinned) Jewish people where "less desirable" The most desirable being, light skinned, blue eyed young and from wealthy families before the holocaust. (Sound familiar?) To these day, Jewish people OUT OF STATE are encouraged to support or even settle land in Palestine. Israel working class and poor peoples have MORE IN COMMON WITH PALESTINIANS THAN THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT! And it is this corrupted movement/this state apparatus that bears the brunt of the responsibility of countless civilian deaths. And it is this corruption that is supported by Canada as much as the US if not more! Canada is Israel’s largest trading partner and plays host to the Jewish National Fund which is anything but a structure that upholds true Jewish Values. It is a ZIONIST front that operates as an environmental organization in Canada. It plants tree on stolen Indigenous land here, as it does annexed Palestinian land.



Imperialism/Zionism is the predominant enemies, everything else is tertiary

[stephen_c]

just before the war broke out
travel and leisure magazine
had it's annual world's best awards for 2006.
in the top 10 cities overall category,
at #9 is guess which city.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/worl...cfm?cat=cities

it's beirut.
beirut, "the jewel of the mediterranean".
look at it now. so sad.

[djmarkpaul]

Best post in entire thread.

Well informed, not too long winded, and makes concrete points that give further leads.

Anyone who disagrees with the points raised, let's see how many won't be conjecture.

I was gonna come into the thread, but I really would just be watering down what was said here.

Originally Posted by fable

Questions to ask:

>Why did Israel invade Lebanon? Why did Israel invade Lebanon in 82?

>Why did Israel earlier invade Palestine?

>What is, or what was the relationship between Hamas and Israel and Hizbollah and Israel?

>What is Israel?

>What has Israel been doing in Palestine for the last 58 years?

>What nations are the direct and excusive economic lifelines for Israel?

>What is the relationships between Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon and Indigenous peoples in Canada?

>What does Imperialism really mean? Who does it impact? How?

>What is the legitimecy of a US/Israel denouncement of Syria and Iran, when the US (and Canada) are the economic lifelines of Israel? What is the legitimacey in the face of 58 years of Zionist/Apatheid rules?

Recent Facts:

>the number of deaths in Lebanon to date is actaully closer to 600

>there are a reported 150 to 200 civilians still buried under rubble

>there are 1780 serious injuries of Lebonese people or "tourists" in Lebanon

>there are close to 150 000 Lebonese refugees in Syria

>the US made a block against a call for a ceasefire as well as blocked the UN statement about the recent UN outpost being hit in an Israel bombing raid, and then turned around and threatened Syria (who they have been pulling US citizens out of for the last two months) and Iran

Opinions:

The comments of maplelead mean shit. They dont relate to anything, and they dont include any context or history. Yes there has been casualties on both sides, and yes both sides have targeted civilians, but to use "terrorism" as a comment means nothing and holds no validity. If we take into consideration the 58 year oppression of Palestine by Israel, then why are we talking about Israeli deaths by Hizbollah rockets? What the fuck does it mean in light of millions upon millions of dead and displaced at the Hands of the US and Israel.

Israel is nothing but a legitimate front for zionist/apartheid rule, and protecting US interests and now Canadian interests in the middle east. The mainstream media has, and always has potrayed any conflict in the middle east in favour of the US(now canada) and Israel.

[esoter1c]

Even religious fanatics love a refreshing OJ once in awhile. :285:

[decypher]

There's a big scandal in the UK because the US is refuelling here en route to transfer weapons to Israel. Syria and Iran supply the other side so using the proxy argument is invalid in this situation. Although i do see why the US and their lapdog Blair refuse to condemn these actions because it's good for the US military-industrial complex.

An Israeli minister has said that the failure for the world to reach a consolidated response condemning Israel actions in Lebanon, during the Rome conference, gives them a right to continue.

ps. harper's a douchebag.

[prozac]

fucking sick.

I hate people.

[Vitamin-X]

When the Japanese attacked pearl harbour the Americans engaged on a 2 or 3 year full fledged campaign against them. Hundreds of thousands of Japanese died. Yet no one was calling that response Disproportiante.

When a nation's security is threatened it engages in whatever action it needs to. And for however long it takes.

I'd say the main difference between Hezbollah and the Israili's is that
the jews try to avoid civillian death, whereas killing civillians is the whole point for hezbollah.