To go or to not go back to EA

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

oh, it's outsourced? Even worse - really hard to move up in a when you've been outsourced - especially since a lot of these outsourcing companies have clauses in their contract about being hired on by the companies they work for. Most have some no-compete clause which doesn't allow you to work for a similar company for a number of months.

I wouldn't do it either unless you career focus is going QA itself...

Mine was 18 months, although I hear for some people it's less....I think it's because I had access to games being developed before even main testing teams had access.

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

oh, it's outsourced? Even worse - really hard to move up in a when you've been outsourced - especially since a lot of these outsourcing companies have clauses in their contract about being hired on by the companies they work for. Most have some no-compete clause which doesn't allow you to work for a similar company for a number of months.

I wouldn't do it either unless you career focus is going QA itself...

EA / Volt would have a conversion fee worked out via a contract. -- Clearly they use Volt for many QA contract positions - probably 100's and so that's a lot of business billed at a decent mark-up hourly. As a result EA would receive a discounted conversion fee IE: salary x 10-15% fee -- 30K salary x 15% fee = $4500 fee to Volt.

As for promotion... it depends on the company and the setup. At the end of the day, if Marty is an over-performer consistently getting above average or perfect performance reviews, EA would be stupid not to hire him full time if they had the full time headcount. It seems there priority as of late is to acquire and reduce EAC headcount so we'll see if that's the case.

[ppcock]

well i asked how long it would be and told them right off the bat, im looking for 6+ month contract, anything lower is a waste of time.


It's also a growing industry and quite frankly I dont mind travelling to other canadian cities to help out. god, i would love to go to UK to help out criterion.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by ppcock

well i asked how long it would be and told them right off the bat, im looking for 6+ month contract, anything lower is a waste of time.


It's also a growing industry and quite frankly I dont mind travelling to other canadian cities to help out. god, i would love to go to UK to help out criterion.

as a volt employee, i assure you you won't do any traveling. the best you can hope for is working downtown to save yourself the commute :p

just be careful, because you'll sign the no-compete paperwork on day 1.....which means if on day 2 you don't think EA is right for you, you're stuck for a year or more unable to work in the industry.

[wishbone]

also perks such as using the gym, or $20 EA games, are not available to outsourced employees.

[ppcock]

that's ok.... the $20.00 games I dont care about, i still get them from my EA friends.

Oh and i would kill to work at the downtown one.

[wishbone]

if you're downtown you'll most likely be on NFS, but the one in the pipeline now sounds way better than prostreet.

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by wishbone

as a volt employee, i assure you you won't do any traveling. the best you can hope for is working downtown to save yourself the commute :p

just be careful, because you'll sign the no-compete paperwork on day 1.....which means if on day 2 you don't think EA is right for you, you're stuck for a year or more unable to work in the industry.

They can't legally do this... and if you are dumb enough to sign something like this, it won't hold up in court. A company can't stop you from earning a living. So saying that "you can't work anywhere else in the industry" wouldn't hold up.

[ppcock]

the way i see it, is this is really my last chance to get into a qa position to build my resume
if volt doesnt give me another contract, at least I have an updated resume with more next gen titles under my belt.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by Kraig

They can't legally do this... and if you are dumb enough to sign something like this, it won't hold up in court. A company can't stop you from earning a living. So saying that "you can't work anywhere else in the industry" wouldn't hold up.

if someone doesn't want to sign it, there's a lineup of 18 year olds who will. legal or not, lawyers should be able to cite IP protection as valid reasons for doing so.

[omega_image]

Originally Posted by Kraig

They can't legally do this... and if you are dumb enough to sign something like this, it won't hold up in court. A company can't stop you from earning a living. So saying that "you can't work anywhere else in the industry" wouldn't hold up.

actually they can, and do. And it also includes the Publishers themselves on top of the 3rd parties.

Ubisoft Wins Non-Compete Order Against Tremblay/Vivendi L.A. at Video Game Law Blog

[dj_soo]

the biggest problem is all the big publishers are going the outsourced route nowadays. You need to either be a superstar, know the right people, or a bit of both to get a decent full-time qa job nowadays. Have you considered applying for positions outside of QA?

Either that or look into the smaller houses. There's tons out there and more on the way.

I'll also say that you're idea that you knowledge of platforms is out of date is kinda skewed i think. Knowledge of a game platform isn't nearly as important to me as knowledge of the industry in general, experience with working in the environment and core concepts of development processes and how QA fits into that role.

At least those are things I look at when I'm considering candidates...

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by omega_image

actually they can, and do. And it also includes the Publishers themselves on top of the 3rd parties.

Ubisoft Wins Non-Compete Order Against Tremblay/Vivendi L.A. at Video Game Law Blog

Both of you are wrong.

I helped hire Tremblay so I'm familiar with the situation - it differs for him due to the very senior role he was in at Ubi and the very senior and similar role he was hired into at Vivendi. There were VERY specific things around competition in his specific contract which is what Ubi was enforcing. PS: he's still there and is working there isn't he? ;-)

Wishbone - i agree that there are 18 years olds waiting to sign something like that however my point is simple - a company can't come after an individual for working in the same industry - it won't hold up in court... IP protection is COMPLETELY different than a non-compete by industry.

I do this for a living and are very familiar with these terms, contracts and such.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by Kraig

Both of you are wrong.

I helped hire Tremblay so I'm familiar with the situation - it differs for him due to the very senior role he was in at Ubi and the very senior and similar role he was hired into at Vivendi. There were VERY specific things around competition in his specific contract which is what Ubi was enforcing. PS: he's still there and is working there isn't he? ;-)

Wishbone - i agree that there are 18 years olds waiting to sign something like that however my point is simple - a company can't come after an individual for working in the same industry - it won't hold up in court... IP protection is COMPLETELY different than a non-compete by industry.

I do this for a living and are very familiar with these terms, contracts and such.

Kraig, I know you are in the industry, so I do understand your credibility. I tried just now to find my old volt paperwork but pretty sure I chucked it all out.

What exactly does the paperwork entail that I signed, then? It wasn't purely non disclosure, there was a competition clause of some sort and a time-frame in there as well.

Are you saying it's merely a scare tactic with no legal grounds? You'd think EA's team of lawyers could draft up something a bit more solid?

[ppcock]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

the biggest problem is all the big publishers are going the outsourced route nowadays. You need to either be a superstar, know the right people, or a bit of both to get a decent full-time qa job nowadays. Have you considered applying for positions outside of QA?

Either that or look into the smaller houses. There's tons out there and more on the way.

I'll also say that you're idea that you knowledge of platforms is out of date is kinda skewed i think. Knowledge of a game platform isn't nearly as important to me as knowledge of the industry in general, experience with working in the environment and core concepts of development processes and how QA fits into that role.

At least those are things I look at when I'm considering candidates...

so you checked out my resume, right?

now, im not going to start harassing you about not calling or anything like that.
in terms of content, what did you like/not like about it?

It would help me out to build a better resume.

[Kraig]

^ I'd have to read what they had you sign to be sure.

Non-disclosure / confidentiality and non-poach agreements are all very standard and make sense. I have my team sign off on that stuff... especially confidentiality and non-poach.

Only under unique situations (like the senior role Omega posted about) would this be enforced or even identified in an employment agreement - IE: an employment agreement for an Executive Producer spot on a kick ass skate boarding title may limit that Executive Producer from working on another skateboarding title at another gaming company for a period of one year. So in that case, it doesn't mean he/she can't go and work for another gaming company, it means he/she can't work on a skateboarding title... for obvious reasons.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by wishbone

as a volt employee, i assure you you won't do any traveling. the best you can hope for is working downtown to save yourself the commute :p

just be careful, because you'll sign the no-compete paperwork on day 1.....which means if on day 2 you don't think EA is right for you, you're stuck for a year or more unable to work in the industry.

thats why you should never ever sign non-competes for any reason.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by ppcock

so you checked out my resume, right?

now, im not going to start harassing you about not calling or anything like that.
in terms of content, what did you like/not like about it?

It would help me out to build a better resume.

i actually didn't read it - it was sent to my boss. send it to me and I'll review it for ya...

[ppcock]

what's a good e-mail addy to send it to?

i'll just forward it from gmail.

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by ppcock

so you checked out my resume, right?

now, im not going to start harassing you about not calling or anything like that.
in terms of content, what did you like/not like about it?

It would help me out to build a better resume.

Marty - you sent your resume to me so I'll give you some goods...

Seperate yourself from every other QA person that applies... include reference letters from your previous bosses (even recommendation written by these people on LinkedIn will help), people you worked with or better yet, make it known that you have available copies of your performance evaluations detailing what an amazing job you've done previously at EA etc.

I'll give you an example of a recommendation on my LinkedIn profile:
“Kraig is a personable, well spoken person who taught me a lot during the time I worked with him both at EA and Vivendi Games. He has a clear leadership approach that allows you to take projects in your own hands and mentor you when needed. Strategy, Leadership and Relationship Building are his strong points and it shows when you work with him in any capacity. I hope I have the opportunity to once again work with him!” January 31, 2008

[ppcock]

how do i get these copies?

a friend is QA manager.. would he give me the goods?

[Kraig]

Originally Posted by ppcock

how do i get these copies?

a friend is QA manager.. would he give me the goods?

That's nice your friend is a QA Manager, but did you report to him? What about other managers in the area you worked with? References are key to obtain and wherever you can provide proof of this quantifiable accomplishments, the better!

[ppcock]

I didnt know I can send referances for jobs.. i thought giving referances was against the NDA.

[Kraig]

LOL. Well if you say what you're working on and what that person worked on specifically then yes, that is illegal!

[Kraig]

Re-read the reference that was left for me on my LinkedIn. It speaks to me personally and the work I did not what I worked on.