So you think you're a raver? - Page 2

ebbomega · #26 (**permalink**) May 17, 04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob

well ok then.

i pretty much made my post cuz there's rotten milk in my fridge right now.

either way... who are you to dictate who a raver is or is not? you're just some guy who went to school with a funny hat on.

Who is anybody to dictate what a raver is or is not?

bob · #27 (**permalink**) May 17, 04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Who is anybody to dictate what a raver is or is not?

exactly!
why can't we all just shutup and dance?

nevermind, i already know the answer to that question...

SEAN! · #28 (**permalink**) May 17, 04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebbomega

You lightweights and n00bs really sure have this PLUR stuff cornered, don't you?

Why is it that there are so many sexually inhibited posts kicking around? People just seem to think that anybody who doesn't think sexually along dick-in-vagina or dick-in-mouth is wrong or something like that. Next thing we won't be able to do any positions save for Missionary (Personally I prefer "Sin of Lilith"... one it's more entertaining, two it just _sounds_ sexier than "Cowgirl").

Has the boobie-penetration of SuperBowl infected the youth as well? Are we all now going to go run screaming just because you see a piece of anatomy?

http://www.fnk.ca/board/showthread.php?t=49011
http://www.fnk.ca/board/showthread.php?t=48272
http://www.fnk.ca/board/showthread.php?t=48776
http://www.fnk.ca/board/showthread.php?t=48778

Wow, Emergence. 3/4.

I dunno whether to scream "Grow Up" or "This is why children shouldn't be in the rave scene."

For the record, the thing which brings us all together here (I'm assuming that for the most part it was raves) is came from Gay culture, the same culture that gave us the hankie convention (want to know someone's inner fetishes? Look at their back pocket...) not to mention the joyful androgeny of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Before you go off on tangeants about how freaked out a fetish makes you or how disgusting it is, remember that there _ARE_ people out there who get off of it, regardless of whether or not you do. I'm not saying that you have to go out and scream about how great Golden Showers are, but beyond "Not my thing" I think you can happily avoid extra comment on it. So next one of you PLUR-preaching automotons wants to go on how "I've never tried it, it is therefore wrong" be ready to be met with a hostile post from me. Because I'm getting sick of hearing all about how much you kids love the scene but yet merely infect it with your paranoid defenses that just make it so that true chaotic hedonism can never again exist at a rave.

Sincerely,
A panty-wearing bumsex-loving freak.

you just may be the cliched stereotype of raver that alot of the "mainstream" ravers have come to resent

yoko* · #29 (**permalink**) May 18, 04

No, I've always said that a raver is one who raves. A plumber is not a person who crawls through pipes. In the same way, going to a rave does not a raver make.

so what makes a raver and who has the authority to define that?

Maybe you need to reevaluate what "raving" means

Maybe it is better to let the past remain in the past and stop living in an illusion of a world that once was and only is in the world of your own personal perceptions and experiences. There is no definitive words to describe subjective experiences, and i have no reason to redefine anything.

I think that's pretty sad then. I wouldn't say that these people are raving. I'd say they're doing drugs, dancing and thinking it's a life-changing experience. As far as I remember, that's what constitutes a High School Prom, not a Rave.

Unfortunately, I'm sure they're having a blast, and couldn't care less whether an elderly raver thought their attitudes were inferior to theirs.

See, "diverse" is a tricky word, because that would insinuate that there's new things coming in and more things are changing and happening because of it. Sadly, the reverse has happened. When's the last time, save AgroDave's parties, that you've heard something other than Trance on a mainstage at a massive? Why is it that every single massive I've seen has involved the same progression, the same activities, <<<<<<and not a single one of them seems to be at all changing the face of raving except to make them complete zone-out fests?>>>>>>>

I was speaking of diversity in crowd, and not the events/music/technicalities
...and how are you hoping to "change the face of raving"?

I'd like to believe that. But the reasons don't seem to be diverse any more. How many people are there for reasons other than the following:

1) Drugs
2) Music

how can you generalize the experiences of large population of people?

Perhaps, but it pisses me off to see people trample something that was at one point such a beautiful release of utter hedonism. The structure of "Being a raver" has sadly bedraggled and trampled the point. People don't even remember what the word "rave" means besides "all night electronic music dance party where people do designer amphetamines".

you use the word "trample" as though the new generation of raves and ravers are tresspassing a territory that you own. It's unforunate that you don't appreciate present day parties as you once did before, but nobody trampled, times just changed and it seems parties evolved into something new.

Perhaps the reason why you look at the present with such a critical eye is because you experienced a taste of the past which suited you and you find it hard to let it go. You're looking at the present through the eyes of the past and through comparing previous experiences with those of an entirely different form, under the disguise of the same label (raves) anything other than your former experience seems undesirable to you. You seem critical of current day "ravers" and hold stereotypes of the reasons why they come together. Instead of thinking of current day parties as inadequate or inferior.. perhaps you should just accept them as seperate things brought on by differing contexts/social setting. Perhaps you are just comparing two different generations and events that exist under the same name, and for this you're unable to appreciate the ways in which it seems to have changed.

It is unrealistic to think that one thing will remain constant for the rest of our lives. As generations changes, trends change... attitudes and behaviours change. Despite what was, what is, IS. If you feel so strongly about the negative direction in which parties have taken you can only work with the present to enact change, instead of trying to impose the past on the present.

Anyways, good luck on your mission to change the "face of raving"

-yoko*

zarlon · #30 (**permalink**) May 18, 04

heh i cant understand why this debate is even happening

its irrellevant and will change no ones opinion or shed new light, in the end anyways.. so why bother?

pinkpanther · #31 (**permalink**) May 18, 04

who gives a flyin fuck? lets just be one and flail

ebbomega · #32 (**permalink**) May 19, 04

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoko*

No, I've always said that a raver is one who raves. A plumber is not a person who crawls through pipes. In the same way, going to a rave does not a raver make.

so what makes a raver and who has the authority to define that?

One who raves. I thought I said that.

Quote:

Maybe it is better to let the past remain in the past and stop living in an illusion of a world that once was and only is in the world of your own personal perceptions and experiences. There is no definitive words to describe subjective experiences, and i have no reason to redefine anything.

Last 3 raves I've been to have all been filled with what I'd call "Ravers". Who the fuck is living in the past?

Despite you having no reason to redefine anything, you are redefining stuff. I'm sorry, but language is one of the essential parts of communication, so in order to get your point across, it's usually a good idea to get your definitions straightened. On that note, yeah, perception's a big thing, but all existence is based on perception. One reason why I think it's important to constantly look and question your perception.

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Unfortunately, I'm sure they're having a blast, and couldn't care less whether an elderly raver thought their attitudes were inferior to theirs.

And that's too bad. Because there's a whole world of stuff to do. Nobody's using their imagination. The whole DIY idea is getting shifted out by people who just want to be entertained. Nobody's making any effort to enhance the experience for other people. They just want to do their drugs, dance, enjoy the light show, and trip out. I'm not saying this isn't entertaining, it's just stagnant and boring after a while.

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I was speaking of diversity in crowd, and not the events/music/technicalities
...and how are you hoping to "change the face of raving"?

So tell me how simply having more people makes the scene any better?

How am I hoping to do it? Just by doing what I can. I hope, when I get back to Van, to once again get involved in the scene, talk to some people of stature in the scene and try to keep up the level of craziness at these parties. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that at the Plaza, but again, I'll do what I can. At the moment it's a bit difficult being stuck in Duncan with limited funds. In the meantime, I'll go to parties and see how I can fuck shit up.

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how can you generalize the experiences of large population of people?

Okay, feel free to add to the list of what kind of things people are doing and I'll be happy to discuss them. But as it sits, it seems that "vibe" isn't so much a "feeling" for the party as it is how good a person's drugs are.

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you use the word "trample" as though the new generation of raves and ravers are tresspassing a territory that you own.

If you're getting that connotation, you should rethink what your definition of the word "trample" is.

Say you see a flower in full bloom. Beautiful flower. Not in anybody's way, just in a nice place for people to enjoy. Nobody owns it, nobody has claim to it. Someone comes along and says "Oh, that's neat!" and stomps it to the ground.

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It's unforunate that you don't appreciate present day parties as you once did before,

Who says I don't? I sure as hell didn't. I'm talking moreso about a lot of the people on this board who show a lot of intolerance and unwillingness to open themselves up to ideas. If anything, I'm talking for progress rather than against it. I've got nothing against "present-day parties" but moreso the people that go to them and do nothing of interest, except get really high and then post later on about how great the "vibe" was.

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but nobody trampled, times just changed and it seems parties evolved into something new.

So what's so new about them?

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Perhaps the reason why you look at the present with such a critical eye is because you experienced a taste of the past which suited you and you find it hard to let it go. You're looking at the present through the eyes of the past and through comparing previous experiences with those of an entirely different form, under the disguise of the same label (raves) anything other than your former experience seems undesirable to you.

I appreciate your attempt to psychoanalyze my opinion, but you're way off base. I've been in the scene for a while, that's true, but when I started off, I had an attitude very similar to yours. That Change was Good, that the scene was evolving to something New, but in actuality, all I've seen since then is more of the same.

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You seem critical of current day "ravers" and hold stereotypes of the reasons why they come together.

Your word choice is interesting.

What kind of stereotypes am I reinforcing?

I consider them more opinions of the way in which the scene is going and seems to me. A stereotype would require that I think this is true of all ravers. I don't. I'm certain there's a lot of people that are trying something new and different. But that isn't a vast majority of the people going to this things.

Quote:

Instead of thinking of current day parties as inadequate or inferior.. perhaps you should just accept them as seperate things brought on by differing contexts/social setting. Perhaps you are just comparing two different generations and events that exist under the same name, and for this you're unable to appreciate the ways in which it seems to have changed.

I find it interesting that you keep polarizing me as a "different generation" or something like that. Frankly, I'm not that oldschool. I've been around for half a decade now, and the rave scene has been around a lot longer than that. You trying to distance yourself from my opinions or something by saying that I'm old and bitter or whatnot. It's a sad state of denial that you'll soon get over. If not by wasting away hours debating how the scene was so much better back when you were partying, then by completely distancing yourself from it.

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It is unrealistic to think that one thing will remain constant for the rest of our lives. As generations changes, trends change... attitudes and behaviours change. Despite what was, what is, IS. If you feel so strongly about the negative direction in which parties have taken you can only work with the present to enact change, instead of trying to impose the past on the present.

See, we're in plenty of agreeance on the change thing. I like the idea of change. It'd be nice if I could see some, though. I think that something new would be really neat. Care to tell me something these plaza ravers are doing though that wasn't happening 5 years ago?

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Anyways, good luck on your mission to change the "face of raving"

You too.