Wut is your opinion of...

[Rhianna]

Originally Posted by trance4life

i said adoptions, if in the majority of canada they have health care and can go to a doctor, have a kid and put it up for adoption. It sounds cold but i am sure death from abortion doesn't happen much nowadays. And yes i saw both movies, but from your earlier post it wasn't clear as to what you were thinking for a time period. As for jen-e-03, they can have an adoption. Lots of parrents look for adoptions each year and its not ( IN MY MIND ) the worst thing in the world. Should they keep the kid its up to them.

/rant off

Yes, it doesn't happen now because it's legal. Which is a good thing and it should stay legal. The best thing is to just not get pregnant in the first place.

[MONEY]

Originally Posted by Tigre

unfortunitly for us your mom decided HAVING kids was the best idea.

SERVICE!!

[rawb]

i don't believe abortion is right from a moral standpoint, but i can't have kids, and i'd never pressure someone into keeping a baby or aborting it.

so i guess im pro choice.

[trance4life]

Originally Posted by Rhianna

The best thing is to just not get pregnant in the first place.

totally agree

[Courtney]

Pro choice
I've noticed that a lot of activists against abortion are men,I hate that.
Anyway,some girls use abortion as a form of birth control which is VERY wrong and stupid....but if its used for a good reason then I'm all for it.

[KandyKid]

I have never seen so many misinformed and mixed thoughts in one thread, most of you are saying PRO CHOICE...ya right....

So in other words you are saying that it is okay to abort a baby in the third trimester, when its 9 months old and weeks form being concieved....right....

Pro Choice has very little to do with anything that any of you think it means, beuacse you are really only pro-choice to a certain degree, you may think that its okay to get an abortion early on in the pregnancy, with which i agree, but after 5 months, is what i think, along with the Supreme Court of Canada (although they dont verbally state it) the cutoff point. After this, it is extremely hard to get an abortion, not becuase there is a law prohibiting it, but because there would be no moral doctor that would do it in Canada and possilbe the US and elsewhere. The later in the pregnancy the rarer an abortion is.

Pro Choice, yet, but with limits, if you decide at the last minute that you dont want a baby, well then boo-urns for you because your almost guarenteed to be stuck with it.

On the other side, if any of you argued Pro-Life and that abortion is murder, well then WRONG WRONG WRONG. As stated in a Supreme Court of Canada decision, the fetus is not a living person so it has no rights until it is born, so aborting has nothing to do with murder, the only reason it still says in the criminal code that killing a fetus is a criminal act is because if they ammend that part from the code, pro-lifers will have a little hissy fit, the law right now is of no force or effect and will most likely be done away with in the next criminal code revision (which hasn't been done in close to 20 years now).

I just gave a very brief and general opinion on it, but if any of you care what the actual rulings are and what pro-choice actually means, you can look into these cases:

R v. Morgentaler (No. 2) (1988) (SCC)

Fetal rights:

Trembley v. Daigle (1989) (SCC)

and for those people that just answered with PRO CHOICE!!!!!....EXPLAIN YOURSELVES, stop acting like a bunch of brainless stupid ravers :p

[Segued]

sex...........

[.anya]

Kandy Kid... not everything decided by the court is in accordance with people's opinions. Legally, the fetus is not a living person and does not have rights, but lots of other people beg to differ, and that's really why the thread was started. (and that's why debates over stem cell research and such are still going on...)

As for myself: I am pro-choice, although i think the arguments on the opposition are valid.
and as for someone mentioning something along the lines of: "wouldnt you be angry if your parents had decided to go through with abortion and not give you a chance at life?" if i knew that my parents would not have been able to provide me with stability and support at least through my childhood - no, i dont think i would be. i dont have much faith in the adoption system, especially having seen orphanages in Russia...
it's kind of a weird thing to answer though, because i don't have a conception of what it would be like to never have been born. things would have been easier anyways heh.

[rawb]

i don't think that once i am theoreticly 'in place' to be born, that someone should be able to decide the fate of that based on the convenience to them, or an unsubstantiated fear of how things will turn out for them.

i have a best friend whos adopted (cry cry heartwrenching story follows), and when he finally talked to his real mom when he was 20 he found out a lot of things. his mom was pressured to abort the pregnancy by the dad, and when she didn't he went back to ireland. she was poor and her husband just left her without a source of income. but she carried him to pergnancy and put him up for adoption. now i have a best friend still. yay.

like i said i think people can make thier own deicsions without my moral wafflings, and i will never pressure anyone or be in a place to decide the fate of a baby.

[{SiNcErE}]

I have really mixed feelings about the topic. If your old enough to spread em then you should be old enough to deal with the responsibilities that come with that, but as everyone knows thats not the case. I know a lot of girls that have had them and its not even like they feel it was the right thing to do they just didnt have a better option. A girl has to do what she has to do

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Tigre

unfortunitly for us your mom decided HAVING kids was the best idea.

watch your mouth.

Tara, on a regular basis, makes posts of more importance and substance than I've ever seen you post. This is a perfect example. Instead of making an intelligent post about your views on abortion, you made a stupid, immature, snide comment. Tsk, tsk.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by rawb

i have a best friend whos adopted (cry cry heartwrenching story follows), and when he finally talked to his real mom when he was 20 he found out a lot of things. his mom was pressured to abort the pregnancy by the dad, and when she didn't he went back to ireland. she was poor and her husband just left her without a source of income. but she carried him to pergnancy and put him up for adoption. now i have a best friend still. yay.

My mom had an abortion when she was 19.

If she hadn't had that abortion, I definitely would NOT exist, and therefore my best friend wouldn't have me, either.

It works from both ends.

I totally love your opinions though, Rawb. You're so beyond right - the guy shouldn't have any say unless it's married couple.

As a woman, it's MY body, MY responsibility in the end ('cause chances are, most guys will take off), and therefore, MY choice.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by miss belle

1. for those of you who are down with abortions, why is the thought of adoption non-existent? i can understand how some people say that they cannot give the child the life it deserves, so why not give it up for adoption so that it has a chance at life. don't you believe that the child deserves at least that much? what if your parents had the opportunity to turn back time and made the choice to have an abortion rather than having you, are you telling me that that wouldn't bother you?

Not all children are adopted.
A large percentage of them just float from foster home to foster home, never having a constant, steady, loving family.

Would you want that kind of life?

As for me...I don't know if I could ever have an abortion. It would really depend on my place in life, who the father was, and other variables. I have a really, really guilty conscience, so it would definitely be very hard for me to make a decision. That said, I do believe it is my RIGHT to make that decision.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by {SiNcErE}

I have really mixed feelings about the topic. If your old enough to spread em then you should be old enough to deal with the responsibilities that come with that, but as everyone knows thats not the case.

Sorry but that idea is such a load of bullshit.

If a girl were only supposed to have sex once she could support a baby, why do we have birth control, condoms, etc? Condoms rip, birth-control isn't 100% effective, etc.

[rawb]

^true never thought of it that way.

shows every sad story has an opposite.






i think the only real answer, morally, is to make women baby factories, giving the chance of life to the most kids as possible. then everyone is happy.

[Partizan]

too lazy to read all ur replies

heres my 2 cents:

abortions are perfectly fine .. the idiots who think its immoral obviously didnt ever have to deal with the burden of a new unwanted child

they say its murder .. but how can u kill something that isnt alive yet? something that has no experience or social place in life yet..

[Partizan]

Originally Posted by miss belle

1. ... what if your parents had the opportunity to turn back time and made the choice to have an abortion rather than having you, are you telling me that that wouldn't bother you?

1.) first of all i didnt ask to be born .. i dont think anyone did .. that something only our parents have control over .. ur making it sound like my conception was a mistake... "turn back time and have an abortion" ?? .. did u ever stop to think that mature parents actually plan to have a kid that they save up money and prepare themselves financially and emotionallly to bring a new life into the world .. its something that doesnt just HAPPEN because someones stupid 18 year old mother forgot to wrap her boyfriends dick in a condom..

[.anya]

Originally Posted by Partizan

they say its murder .. but how can u kill something that isnt alive yet? something that has no experience or social place in life yet..

posted earlier by rawb:
"i don't think that once i am theoreticly 'in place' to be born, that someone should be able to decide the fate of that based on the convenience to them, or an unsubstantiated fear of how things will turn out for them."

[C_squared]

in my honest opinion... abortions are wrong.

i am pro choice... however if you choose not to use protection in a given situation where there will be intercorse than you also choose to face the consequences.

at the point where you made the mistake (personal choice) of getting pregnant you have to be a grown up about it and face the music.

[trance4life]

karma for that c-squared, even though you want to destroy all trance~

haha

[Jingles]

i'm Pro-choice
and lets not argue semantics here people

if the fetus is viable outside of the womb (eg. 3rd sememster) then no i don't give the thumbs up to aborting it - but in Canada that is not really an option, so when i say pro-choice, i am talking about early stages of pregnancy

In China, with their one child policy abortion is a daily topic, there are songs about taking birth control - women who have become pregnant with a second child without proper authorization are encouraged to abort everyday...there is such a thing as a third trimester abortion....and i personally feel that all of this can not be discussed under the umbrella term of abortion

we talk about a womans right to choose, a womans body - and then it can be brought up, well if i can choose to abort my child....can i also choose to sniff glue while i am pregnant with a child i want to keep? If i don't want to keep it, it's my body - but if i do want to keep it, i have to consider it's well-being

For me, it's semantics, I choose to accept the duality of that situation, if i decide to take on the responsibility of being a mother, i choose to see my body as a shared vehicle
and if i choose that i do not want to be pregnant, then it is my reponsibility to me, to do the best thing for my own well being

I get angry at the men who get all up in this topic as if they can ever possibly understand what it would feel like to have to choose to kill a child in your womb

no matter what, no matter how powerful your parental love is, no matter how strongly you feel one way or the other - a man will never know what it feels like to have to choose
and i am not really sure that no matter how many times i say that, that some people will ever understand how hard that choice is

many many years ago, before their was medical abortion there were herbs that would expell things from a womb, and there have been coathanger abortions and even when there is was seemingly no abortion, there was child death. Why in some countries now, babies are drowned because a family can't support them - if that is the choice, abortion or drowning a newborn...what suddenly sounds more moral to you?

and in a country where drowning a baby doesn't seem like an option
lets look at our friends - stats
i think you would be quite estatic to find out that young single mothers make up the majority of our empovrished ....so with no abortion, would we not be forcing more women into this situation?

If we say -no more abortion, it is wrong, and we force the women to 'deal with their actions' how will we force the daddies to 'deal with it' too
because that's a huge factor you know
good boys are there who say 'i would be there for my child, no matter what'
but, lets say you get loaded
and then go home with some random bar girl
never get her name....have unprotected sex (you are both repsonsible for that - are you not?) and never see her agin, but nine months later she has your child, but she doesn't know it's yours cause there was another guy that happened with - and you don't know know shit

who gets stuck with the baby? weren't 2 people irresponsible?
Abortion is an argument that no one wins
i am thankful for the option
i hope i never have to use it

and i will fight fight to keep the choice
the bottom line is, be smart, be careful - it could happen to any of us

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by Jingles

if the fetus is viable outside of the womb (eg. 3rd sememster) then no i don't give the thumbs up to aborting it - but in Canada that is not really an option, so when i say pro-choice, i am talking about early stages of pregnancy

but even that can become a touchy issues. for example african babies tend to reach the viable period sooner than caucasian babies. then theoretically, shouldn't mothers with african babies not be allowed to have an abortion as late as caucasian babies? and with the new technology, babies are able to survive at younger stages than they were years before.

Originally Posted by Jingles

many many years ago, before their was medical abortion there were herbs that would expell things from a womb, and there have been coathanger abortions and even when there is was seemingly no abortion, there was child death. Why in some countries now, babies are drowned because a family can't support them - if that is the choice, abortion or drowning a newborn...what suddenly sounds more moral to you?

from a legal standpoint, it's different. but morally, to be totally honest, I personally really don't see much of a difference. if you've ever seen an actual dead fetus and it's intricate little features, it's incredibly hard to pretend like it's not a human.

Originally Posted by Jingles

Abortion is an argument that no one wins
i am thankful for the option
i hope i never have to use it

and i will fight fight to keep the choice
the bottom line is, be smart, be careful - it could happen to any of us

I totally agree...

--Joanne :P

[G-Style]

100% pro choice. If a girl I'm seeing gets pregnant I would support her no matter what her decision may be because at they end of the day it's her choice to make.

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by galaxie

Not all children are adopted.
A large percentage of them just float from foster home to foster home, never having a constant, steady, loving family.

Would you want that kind of life?

well, the thing is you don't know what kind of life that child could have. you don't know if that child will end up floating from foster home to foster home.. and even if he or she does, who's to say that he or she will regret ever being born?

I realize what you're saying, but at the same time, I try to remember that you can't assume that a child will have a terrible life and should therefore be aborted. no one can predict the future... beethoven was born under some pretty harsh family conditions.. but he grew up to be one of the world's greatest musician.

--Joanne :P

[Juicyka]

abortion is murder.
but if you cant support the baby then
you should get one.