The Zombie Dave Nonis Memorial Canucks Regular Season Thread

[rawb]

Originally Posted by Sykonee

With Brodeur out for a couple months, can we now officially call Luongo "The Best Active Goalie"?

im happy with having one of the best goaltenders, i dont really subscribe to the whole '#1 best' thing

[brit]

athletes and their abilities are fluid, to pick a number one at anything would be pretty silly.

[ebbomega]

I dunno. I'd still say Candiens-era Roy is a contender for "best ever"

[Pennywise]

Patrick Roy was the man! He was my favorite goalie before he retired.

[shift]

Originally Posted by brit

athletes and their abilities are fluid, to pick a number one at anything would be pretty silly.

Wayne Gretzky?

[brit]

I thought we were talking about players playing the game today, in which case its fluid, week to week, season by season.

History is the same though, ten or twenty years from now because of the changing nature of the game and the tendancy to adapt and progress, wayne may not be the man and infact id be suprised if he still held that title for the rest of our life times.

[ebbomega]

I think when people are ranking "best" of current players it's the same thing. Just your scope is more over the last few weeks rather than over the last century or so.

[cubed]

Originally Posted by brit

History is the same though, ten or twenty years from now because of the changing nature of the game and the tendancy to adapt and progress, wayne may not be the man and infact id be suprised if he still held that title for the rest of our life times.

With the way the game is progressing offensively and advents of more open free agency there is no doubt in my mind that Wayne Gretzky will still be the greatest player through out our life time.

His stats just don't lie...

# Most goals: Wayne Gretzky 894
# Most goals, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 1016
# Most goals, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 92 (1981–1982)
# Most goals, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 100 (1983–84)
# Most assists: Wayne Gretzky, 1963
# Most assists, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 2223
# Most assists, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 163 (1985–86)
# Most assists, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 174 (1985–86)
# Most points: Wayne Gretzky, 2857
# Most points, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 3239
# Most points, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 215 (1985–86)
# Most points, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 255 (1984–85)

Gretzky averaged almost 2 points per game for his entire career, that is just astronomical.

With the direction the game is moving now, I highly doubt that any of those single season records of his will ever be broken.

[ebbomega]

I saw Gretzky play once against the 'nucks. This was past his prime, when he was with the Kings. He scored two goals and got two assists.

What amazed me though was that whenever he got a point, the crowd still cheered like mad. He's a hero to the whole sport, not just whichever team he was playing for.

Also, the biggest thing about Gretzky is that he was pure finesse. Even looking at the runners-up against him.... the closest you'd probably find would be Gordie Howe, and he was a big rough-and-tumbler... notorious for having his elbows up all game. You could probably count the number of fights Gretzky's been in on one hand. The man was just pure skill. Bred in the icy heartland of Ontario, could skate before he could walk. He started playing Junior hockey at the age of 14 (usually you can't join until you're 16). In his rookie year in the NHL he won the Hart trophy (which he then continued to win for the next 7 years). 5 years into his professional hockey career he was given the Order Of Canada. In his first 10 years he held the Stanley Cup 4 times.

They call him The Great One for a reason.

[rawb]

i think if mario lemeiux or bobby orr had full careers they could have made a push for 'the greatest ever'

[cubed]

Originally Posted by rawb

i think if mario lemeiux or bobby orr had full careers they could have made a push for 'the greatest ever'

Very true, I'd even throw Mike Bossy into the mix on that as well.

But my point is, with the direction of modern hockey is taking you're going to be hard pressed to beat any of those accomplishments.

[rawb]

yup

man bossy is the best hockey player that nobody ever talks about, poor motherfucker

[cubed]

Definitely, I've always been a huge Bossy fan.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by rawb

i think if mario lemeiux or bobby orr had full careers they could have made a push for 'the greatest ever'

And you know, I'd even say that a lot of Gretzky's NHL success had a LOT to do with the Oilers knowing exactly the formula he could thrive in. Not to mention they had an insane line up: Moose, Kurri, Fuhr, Coffey.... I mean, part of the reason that Gretzky was able to pound in the goals and didn't have to worry about fights or injury was because if anybody ever stepped up to him they'd get a faceful of Messier (or just wide air, he was amazing at deking out checks).

[cubed]

Gretzky's success came from having a team in front of him that would open up the offensive end and allow him to sit behind the goal and just create.

He was like a quarterback in the pocket behind the net, with an all-pro offensive line holding everyone back.

[brit]

Originally Posted by cubed

With the way the game is progressing offensively and advents of more open free agency there is no doubt in my mind that Wayne Gretzky will still be the greatest player through out our life time.

His stats just don't lie...

# Most goals: Wayne Gretzky 894
# Most goals, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 1016
# Most goals, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 92 (1981–1982)
# Most goals, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 100 (1983–84)
# Most assists: Wayne Gretzky, 1963
# Most assists, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 2223
# Most assists, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 163 (1985–86)
# Most assists, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 174 (1985–86)
# Most points: Wayne Gretzky, 2857
# Most points, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 3239
# Most points, one season: Wayne Gretzky, 215 (1985–86)
# Most points, one season, including playoffs: Wayne Gretzky, 255 (1984–85)

Gretzky averaged almost 2 points per game for his entire career, that is just astronomical.

With the direction the game is moving now, I highly doubt that any of those single season records of his will ever be broken.

Stats are not a great indicator to base an arguement of who is the best at anything in hockey, especially in terms of goal scoring and assists. Players in the coming years have a much better chance of beating Gretzkys stats now then they would have competing against him at the time. He and other record holders could easily be passed based on stats due to the way the game and the rules have been changed inorder to accomadate the US market and the need for excitement by way of goals and fights to draw new fans, in addition to natural evolution. Thats why we are watching 5-6 and 9-7 games as opposed to 2-1 or 1-0 games, and why smaller guys have a chance as scorers on the top line. Why we created over time and penalty shoot outs. Everythings changed and you dont really have a strong basis to compare anything too.
Like I say, the Nhl is to fluid and complex to really compare players in the short or even over the long term. I think we can only be excited about what it is to come and how players like crosby,malkin, ovechkin, stamkos, traveras, ect develop.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by brit

Stats are not a great indicator to base an arguement of who is the best at anything in hockey, especially in terms of goal scoring and assists.

Most of this was TLDR so I wanted to highlight the first sentence because it bears isolating.

To summarize:

Stats like goals and assists are not a good indicator of who is the best at anything in hockey.

That is fucking Rumsfeldian in its genius. I'm trying to figure out where we should turn to if not goals and assists. +/- ? Hip checks? Consecutive years wearing an "A"?

[brit]

You missed the point entirely. The rules today are differant then when Gretsky was playing, the rules today allow for more goals. Its actually really straight forward and basic, but try google or something if you are still confused.

[Grapes]

You're completely out to fucking lunch. Go google that.

[tiedye]

You're completely out to fucking lunch - Google Search

[shift]

^Yeah, they have been slowly changing the rules because the style of hockey played by most teams now is a lot more defensive. Even taking those things in to consideration I don't think it's that likely Gretzky's stats/achievements will ever be beaten, however. He's not just a little ahead, he's MILES ahead.

[cubed]

They could take out both blue lines as well and I doubt anyone would come close.

[Grapes]

But guys think about it, what if you ignored all his goals and assists, THEN HOW GOOD A PLAYER WOULD HE BE?

[rawb]

TONIGHT

CANUCKS
vs
COLORADO

Colorado has been looking pretty sub-par, last years push that got them to the playoffs seems to have been the last gasp of a strong generation of play. They still have some pretty shit-hot forwards that can put the puck in the net, but not much else imo. Will be a hard game that we can feel bad about if we lose.

THINGS I THINK ABOUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS GAME
-Hansen is back probably
-Sakic is out
-Whats up with the Avs goaltending? Who approved it? I mean, the earmark of the Avs has always been either an amazing goalie or at least a former vezina winner. Now they have two goalies that make a combined 1.8 million between them. Wtf
-Lol Darcy tucker
-Shutout streak is done tonight imo

[rawb]

ALSO!

The Blackhawks, holy shit this team scares the shit out of me with how good their forwards are. Barring any management blunders this team could really bro down with playoff spots for years to come. They are like a highlight goal generating machine.