31 Dead in Virginia Tech Shooting

[lildonkey]

Originally Posted by kiMMie

I believe that with three main institutions (school, police department, and mental health facility) whom all had altercations and visible indicators of his tendency for "abnormal" behavior that should have "red-flagged" Cho. I'm not stating that this could have been prevented, but more action could have been taken.

I believe a big problem was that the 3 institutions were not communicating with eachother. For example.. the people at the mental health institute did not know about his poetry and threating demeanor at school... if all 3 of these institutions knew everything eachother knew about him, maybe he would have been detained and forced to get mental help and released back into society when he was ready....

i got a chance to see a glimpse of the videos on tv this evening, and it sent a chill down my spine.... it was just really weird seeing human behaviour like that.... just something about looking at a video tape of a guy who knows hes about to commit a massacre and then take his own life.... just creeps me out.

In any case... i feel really bad for all the people who were effected by this... including the parents and family of the cho guy who commited the massacre.

[lildonkey]

Originally Posted by galaxie

The VT campus is HUGE. 2600 acres. It's not like evacuating a high school - campus consists of dorms, apartments, classrooms, businesses, etc. That's like saying if there's a shooting in someone's home and the whereabouts of the killer is unknown the entire neighbourhood should be evacuated and surrounding businesses should be shut down.

It's unfortunate, but they did what they could with the information they had. The university didn't have any reason to suspect that it was not an isolated incident. Also, they believed that the shooter was still in the residence hall that the first shooting occured in.

exactly the point i was trying to portray in my previous post... but you wrote it a lot clearer then i did..

the police didn't do anything wrong here by not shutting down the campus.. I just think like always... theres a witch hunt after stuff like this occers to place blame on somebody.

They should have a viewer poll and see if people want to be evacuated from their homes and also have their businesses shut down every time there is a murder within 15 miles of their residence/place of business.. then we'll see how many people think the cops should have evacuated the entire facility.

[kiMMie]

Originally Posted by lildonkey

I believe a big problem was that the 3 institutions were not communicating with eachother. For example.. the people at the mental health institute did not know about his poetry and threating demeanor at school... if all 3 of these institutions knew everything eachother knew about him, maybe he would have been detained and forced to get mental help and released back into society when he was ready....

From what I'm hearing through media, all three institutions were aware of the individual's behavior. Apparently two teachers informed warned the school administration of him in the past.

In order to do any consult, you need a person's personal & medical history. I'm sure the facility were in contact with the police department, the school, and family during the consult. Also, all results would have been released to the police department & school board.

Another question for all:
Do you think an email announcement is "adequate" to warn the public in this type of situation?

[kiMMie]

Originally Posted by galaxie

The VT campus is HUGE. 2600 acres. It's not like evacuating a high school - campus consists of dorms, apartments, classrooms, businesses, etc. That's like saying if there's a shooting in someone's home and the whereabouts of the killer is unknown the entire neighbourhood should be evacuated and surrounding businesses should be shut down.

It's unfortunate, but they did what they could with the information they had. The university didn't have any reason to suspect that it was not an isolated incident. Also, they believed that the shooter was still in the residence hall that the first shooting occured in.

Good point Nat. I understand that the law enforcement did not want to alarm the remaining students of VT and trying to organize an enormous evacuation is a difficult one.

However, if there's a shooting in a neighborhood, and someone had ID'ed the suspect, and he was on the run, wouldn't the police department naturally tie off the neighboring areas to find the suspect?

[galaxie]

They (being school and police) thought the shooter was still in the residence hall where the original shooting took place. Once they realized that he had somehow managed to exit unnoticed, they took the next step. I think, being realistic, it's very rare for a killing spree of this magnitude to occur, and so law enforcement and the university didn't anticipate the second shooting.

I don't know how you'd even evacuate a 2600 acre campus without putting more people in danger - they did put everyone in lockdown in classrooms and residence. I think if they brought all those people into the open to evacuate it would be a better chance for the shooter to kill/injure more people than if they were on lockdown. It's like that school shooting where the 11 and 13 year-olds pulled the fire alarm and then opened fire as everyone streamed out of the school.

[kiMMie]

Originally Posted by galaxie

They (being school and police) thought the shooter was still in the residence hall where the original shooting took place. Once they realized that he had somehow managed to exit unnoticed, they took the next step. I think, being realistic, it's very rare for a killing spree of this magnitude to occur, and so law enforcement and the university didn't anticipate the second shooting.

I don't know how you'd even evacuate a 2600 acre campus without putting more people in danger - they did put everyone in lockdown in classrooms and residence. I think if they brought all those people into the open to evacuate it would be a better chance for the shooter to kill/injure more people than if they were on lockdown. It's like that school shooting where the 11 and 13 year-olds pulled the fire alarm and then opened fire as everyone streamed out of the school.

On the contrary, I don't think it is very rare anymore. There have been many documented incidents with students and firearms in the school systems for years now. Incidents that have led to unfortunate deaths of innocent students & teachers (i.e your example of the 11 & 13 year old, Columbine, etc. I think with that kind of history of school violence, the law enforcement should have anticipated the "possibility" of a second shooting, especially if the individual was armed, dangerous and on the run.

I also don't feel it's acceptable to send out a mass email warning at 9:26am to students explaining the situation on the campus. The first shooting occurred at 7:15am. How come it took over two hours to write that email? Aren't students in class by 8am (if they had a morning class)? I think they should have cancelled all classes when the first shooting occurred until the perpetrator was found. It's a precaution that they seemed to have overlooked - the safety of their students. Ultimately, when on the school's property, it is the school who are responsible for their well-being.

It's a shame really. :cry:

[b0ld]

This whole situation is fucked up by the get go. I mean for christ sakes the president of the united states has the nerve to go to the convocation a day after the incident and say the victims were "at the wrong place at the wrong time" ..... Umm wrong asshole.... the victims were in class to fulfill a degree so that they can have a career. They were at the right place at the right time, which was studying . NOBODY expects someone to go on a rampage like what happened, its absolutely unexpected.

The fact of the matter is that what is going to come out of this is a shit load of lawsuits. There's already proof in 2005 that the gunman was ruled by a judge that he was "insane" and needed counselling. He went to counselling. Only 2 years later to legally purchase 2 guns where a check is done with the ATF and FBI to see what was on his record and granted purchases of these firearms. I dunno about you but you'd think that if a person had a history where court judge labeled an individual "insane" at some point that would raise a flag in the system not to sell a firearm to this individual. I guess its the opposite over there...

[Vitamin-X]

They seem to like to write notes or leave videos (Manifesto's).
I wonder if the media coverage they know is coming feeds their
"poor us against a cruel world" fantasy.

After seeing that guy on Tv I would have to say he was going to rampage sooner or later. Also, given the meticulous planning he put in
into it I doubt any gun control ect would have helped.

[PwInCeSs]

Originally Posted by galaxie

The VT campus is HUGE. 2600 acres. It's not like evacuating a high school - campus consists of dorms, apartments, classrooms, businesses, etc. That's like saying if there's a shooting in someone's home and the whereabouts of the killer is unknown the entire neighbourhood should be evacuated and surrounding businesses should be shut down.

It's unfortunate, but they did what they could with the information they had. The university didn't have any reason to suspect that it was not an isolated incident. Also, they believed that the shooter was still in the residence hall that the first shooting occured in.

I do agree, I never did say that the whole place should have been shutdown. Its not that easy, it was like a mini city. I just think more of an announcment should have been made thats all.
I did hear that they were questioning the bf of the girl who was shot on the side of the road when the second shooting began.

And i do agree with what Kimmie said aswell, with all the other school shootings it should have put up more of a red flag.

The police handled it how they saw it, as in issolated shooting. Witch is probally how it seemed at the time. If only that ended up the case.

[Phrenetic]

i know what its like to be alianeded and hurt. i never went to this length because i had escapes. i with people would have gotten to him earlyer

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

i know what its like to be alianeded and hurt. i never went to this length because i had escapes. i with people would have gotten to him earlyer

That video has to be the most grotesque display that a national news network has ever displayed. How horrible it must be for the families of the victims to watch that over and over?! I am glad to know that some news networks have chosen not to play the video or show the pictures.

It does nothing more than sensationalize the crime. I don't think it explains any further to WHY he did it, then showing that he was mentally unstable. Posting the video here just aids that kid's cause.

Gross.

[galaxie]

I didn't watch the whole video because the first half sounded like bullshit. He was far too composed, I don't feel like he believed what he was saying. I think if he was really THAT upset there would have been some emotion involved...then again, he may have been so crazy that he didn't really show much emotion.

Either way, that video probably should not have been released to the media and kept private.

[thebobman]

See Jack Thompson... See Jack Thompson Try to Link Halo to VT Killings...See Jack Thompson Claim Microsoft is Responsible for Couterstike...See Warrant served on gunman's residence turn up not a single video game... Don' be like Jack

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

They seem to like to write notes or leave videos (Manifesto's).
I wonder if the media coverage they know is coming feeds their
"poor us against a cruel world" fantasy.

After seeing that guy on Tv I would have to say he was going to rampage sooner or later. Also, given the meticulous planning he put in
into it I doubt any gun control ect would have helped.

i dont think thats the case in this situation, the guy had all the trademarks of schizophrenia but was mis-diagnosed.

If they caught it early he could've lived a long healthy life and none of this wouldve happened.

its quite tragic.