INSTANT KARMA ok

[starbright]

Right now, a major UN summit in Bali has just a few days left to
hammer out an agreement on stopping catastrophic climate change. But
instead of helping out, CANADA IS ACTUALLY SABOTAGING THE UN TALKS!
On Saturday, experts gave us the global "fossil" AWARD FOR BEING THE
WORST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

There's still a few days left to save Canada's reputation -- and the
climate -- but WE NEED A MASSIVE DEMOCRATIC ROAR TO REMIND OUR PRIME
MINISTER WHAT CANADA IS ALL ABOUT, and stop him from blocking the
world at Bali. Click below to sign the petition and we'll advertize
the number of signatures we get in an ad campaign across Canada this
week. OUR GOAL IS TO GET 100,000 PEOPLE TO SIGN IN THE NEXT 3 DAYS --
ONE OF THE LARGEST PETITIONS IN CANADIAN HISTORY. Click below, then
forward this email to all your friends and family right away:

Harper Stop Blocking UN Climate Talks![1]

Enough is enough. Prime Minister Harper's short-sighted, undemocratic
and big oil-driven policy on climate change is damaging the world and
destroying our image as a good country. We're supposed to be the nice
guys, who try to do the right thing in the world.

The vast majority of Canadians are hopping mad on this issue -- we
can win this. We just need to show Harper how serious we are that he
change course. Sign up now and FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE YOU
KNOW - WE'VE GOT JUST 3 DAYS TO HIT 100,000 SIGNATURES!

With much respect and hope,

Ricken Patel,
Avaaz.org[2]

PS - Here are links to some more info on this:

David Suzuki (the Nature of Things) calls the government's spin on
climate change "humiliating" and "ludicrous"
TheStar.com | News | This guy was the green prime minister?[3]

The former editor-in-chief of CBC news discusses the damage done by
Canada's climate policy to our international reputation:
Canada Abroad: Canada flounders on issue of climate change[4]


The Fossil of the Day Award site:
Fossil of the Day Awards[5]

________________________________________ ___

[-525.580792-]

ABOUT AVAAZ
Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning
organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the
world's people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means "voice" in
many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or
corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in London, New
York, Paris, Washington DC, Geneva, and Rio de Janeiro.

To contact Avaaz, write to info@avaaz.org. You can also send postal mail to our New York
office: 260 Fifth Avenue, 9th floor, New York, NY 10001 U.S.A.

If you have technical problems, please go to Avaaz.org - The World in Action[6].




Links:
------
[1] Harper Stop Blocking UN Climate Talks!
[2] Avaaz.org - The World in Action
[3] TheStar.com | News | This guy was the green prime minister?
[4]
Canada Abroad: Canada flounders on issue of climate change
[5] Fossil of the Day Awards
[6] Avaaz.org - The World in Action


ok so if you're not absolutely outraged, and the satisfaction of taking some action isn't enough for you, post a screen shot of the thank you page after signing the petition (telephone number isn't req'd) and i'll be sure you give you a fnk karma point for your daily good deed. who knows, maybe some other people will too.

also, PLEASE forward this appropriately!
<3

[starbright]

[NinjaBoy]

Nothing drives the politcal machine like the fear of an online petition.

100 000? I think the petition to bring back Star Trek Enterprise is at 300 000...

[dabbler]

Signed. Thanks for posting this Nicole.

[LEEROY CHANG!!]

I don’t understand how we can responsibly enter into Kyoto without countries such as India and China. The new Rudd government in Australia signed the agreement on a campaign promise, in an effort to win over environmentally concerned Australian. There is of course nothing wrong with being an environmentalist, but one must understand that emissions are a global issue. Here is the problem with Kyoto.

Kyoto does put obligations on countries such as China, India and the USA. By 2015 China, the USA and India will be the world three largest contributors to global emissions, in that order. All that limiting other countries emissions is going to do is cause displacement of fossil fuels from other countries to the three nations mentioned above. All Canada is going to do by enacting Kyoto, is limit domestic emission, increase exports of fossil fuels, allowing none Kyoto member states to burn said fossil fuels, and the global emissions will stay the same. Limiting emissions in various countries is also going to cause the price of fossil fuels to go down, allowing non-members to Kyoto to buy and burn more.

Though Australia is now on board with Kyoto, understand that they are one of China’s number one suppliers of coal. All Kyoto is going to do for Australia is increase fossil fuel exports to China. Australia is not going to cut back on production of fossil fuels because of limits on domestic emissions when they have a world market for them. Cut backs would destroy their economy.

People need to stop thinking about Canada’s reputation abroad and being concerned what the populists think. Canadians recognize that global warming is a huge world issue, but as a responsible economic world power (and we are one) we have to look at the big picture. An agreement without China, the USA and India is nothing but a useless piece of paper.

from another perspective

[NinjaBoy]

^
excellent post.

People need to keep in mind, Kyoto is like disarming nukes. Unless everyone agrees there really isn't any point except for crippiling countries that do sign on.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by starbright

ok so if you're not absolutely outraged, and the satisfaction of taking some action isn't enough for you, post a screen shot of the thank you page after signing the petition (telephone number isn't req'd) and i'll be sure you give you a fnk karma point for your daily good deed. who knows, maybe some other people will too.

also, PLEASE forward this appropriately!
<3

Here's a screenshot of me signing the petition to bring back the spin off series from Babylon 5. Do I still get karma?

[starbright]

that is my fucking point!!

john, who is the asshole who wrote that shit?
do you honestly support harper and the economy over the well-being of the entire human race?

call me an idealist all you want, but i actually believe in the power of people working together.

sign the fucking thing. be a part of something good. be an example for china or india or whoever. quit making excuses. focus on solutions.


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[cubed]

Originally Posted by starbright

t h e
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[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by starbright

that is my fucking point!!

john, who is the asshole who wrote that shit?
do you honestly support harper and the economy over the well-being of the entire human race?

But if the top 3 fossil fuel users continue without signing the petition, it doesn't really do anything. It gives those countries an economic advantage which would increase production and fossil fuel use anyways.

Kyoto is a flawed system.

sign the fucking thing. be a part of something good. be an example for china or india or whoever. quit making excuses. focus on solutions.

What exactly is signing it going to do? Please explain to me. Who is going to read this? I don't see stephen Harper changing his mind because 100 000 people with hotmail adresses replied to a forwarded email.

Online petitions are bullshit. If you really cared about this you'd actually do something. Forwarding an online petition is just a way for you to feel like your actually doing something without leaving the comfort of your living room.

Hell, write a few letters, they will do way more then 100 000 person petition online would do.

Plus, I'm pretty sure when it's actually sent to the government their spam filter would stop it from reaching them.

[Revolver]

taxes are down and going down.

the dollar is strong.

we are kicking some serious AFGHANI ASS in pakistan.

and they are going to release a new SUV that runs on baby seal blood and polar bear claws to give more power.

whaaaaaaaats the problem?

TEAM CANADA FUCK YEAH!

[LEEROY CHANG!!]

it was written in the comments area of the cbc page. the article seemed a little too subjective for me so i wanted to see some other opinions on the matter. if you ask me, it sucks that all climate change issues and resolutions are so politically driven because there's always skepticism over whether a politician is choosing to do "the right thing" for humanitarian reasons or political reasons

i know if i was in harpers position i'd have a hard time deciding what to do. on one hand you could sign the treaty and hope that the next super powers in the world (china, india) dont take advantage of the situation all the while having the economy in your own country go down (lets not forget the PM's first and foremost responsibility is to help govern his own people). on the other hand, you dont sign the treaty in an attempts to have global consensus on the matter, making it all the more effective.

and i think the point ninjaboy was trying to get at is that signing an online petition is really not going to mean anything. there are probably more effective ways to get your voice heard and online petitions are never accounted for in any official way because of forging

[starbright]

i have written letters, and will continue to do so. i make many efforts to reduce my environmental impact and plan to work in an eco-related field when i graduate.
i don't see the petition as any kind of solution. it's simply a statement.
it's super easy to make. i think it's probably more effective for media attention than political attention. it's a small step.

like kyoto. it's not going to magically fix everything, but it is definitely a move in a positive direction, as opposed to stomping around being negative, or just ignoring shit all together.

what's the point of the UN?
what's the point of block watch?
all totally flawed systems. i'm still glad they're around.

i didn't come in here acting like i have all the answers.
i mostly just want to raise awareness of these current events.

negativity, like positivity is infectious.
it's easy to be selfish and ignorant.

thanks for your contribution to my thread.

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by LEEROY CHANG!!

and i think the point ninjaboy was trying to get at is that signing an online petition is really not going to mean anything. there are probably more effective ways to get your voice heard and online petitions are never accounted for in any official way because of forging

but it's really easy and worth the time spent, even if it just gets people to think about what's going on.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by starbright

i don't see the petition as any kind of solution. it's simply a statement.
it's super easy to make. i think it's probably more effective for media attention than political attention. it's a small step.

Well, the media isn't going to pay attention to this. So there goes that.

like kyoto. it's not going to magically fix everything, but it is definitely a move in a positive direction, as opposed to stomping around being negative, or just ignoring shit all together.

I don't believe being ignorant and thinking that this petition is going to help either.

negativity, like positivity is infectious.
it's easy to be selfish and ignorant.

And knowledge and common sense is infectious as well. All something like this does is make people feel like they've done something without actually taking the time to understand any of the facts.

[LEEROY CHANG!!]

what you're doing is great, and i wasnt trying to be negative. but raising awareness without presenting all the surrounding facts is like watching a japanese documentary on world war 2.

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by starbright

that is my fucking point!!

john, who is the asshole who wrote that shit?
do you honestly support harper and the economy over the well-being of the entire human race?

call me an idealist all you want, but i actually believe in the power of people working together.

sign the fucking thing. be a part of something good. be an example for china or india or whoever. quit making excuses. focus on solutions.


t h e
e n t i r e
p o i n t
i s
t h a t
w e
a r e
a l l
i n
i t
T O G E T H E R

Without China,India and the developing world this protocol isn't worth the paper its printed on. In fact its more like economic self abuse.

Besides, as I understand it this protocol allows all nations to keep
polluting as much as they want just as long as they "buy" clean air points from smaller (less wealthy) nations.

Waste of time- go save a seal.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Gusto

but it's really easy and worth the time spent, even if it just gets people to think about what's going on.

I feel that an online petition is actually a negative. It has people act, and think they've done something when they haven't done anything.

As well as it being a flawed system.

[Gusto]

^ i'd argue that those people weren't going to do anything else anyway. i see what you're saying, but don't agree.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Gusto

^ i'd argue that those people weren't going to do anything else anyway. i see what you're saying, but don't agree.

Signing a petition that is forwarded to them by a friend in their email, gives a quick opinion.

They'll agree, sign this and think they've done something. But they don't understand the facts behiend it.

Kyoto might be a good idea in principle, but in it's current form, it's actually quite detremental to the world as a whole.

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Signing a petition that is forwarded to them by a friend in their email, gives a quick opinion.

They'll agree, sign this and think they've done something. But they don't understand the facts behiend it.

Kyoto might be a good idea in principle, but in it's current form, it's actually quite detremental to the world as a whole.

that's funny because when someone sends me a petition to sign, and it's something i'm interested in, it causes me to read more about the issue and get informed. i realize that not everyone does, but i'm definitely not alone. i think that the reach afforded by online petitions outweighs the possibilty of non-action (which was always there) if only because of the potential size of the audience. anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree. :P

[NinjaBoy]

^

Good point, but yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[LEEROY CHANG!!]

interesting read by one of my favorite profs from school

SFU News Online - Comment - Oct 30, 2003

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Nothing drives the politcal machine like the fear of an online petition.

100 000? I think the petition to bring back Star Trek Enterprise is at 300 000...

The first one or the last one?

[decypher]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

Without China,India and the developing world this protocol isn't worth the paper its printed on. In fact its more like economic self abuse.

Besides, as I understand it this protocol allows all nations to keep
polluting as much as they want just as long as they "buy" clean air points from smaller (less wealthy) nations.

Waste of time- go save a seal.

yeh but as self-proposed world leaders the western nations have to take the first step instead of playing relative games. Also applying free-market policies to environmental policy is a retarded idea like you said. Real regulation that forces companies to innovate is the only way. Harper didn't even allow the opposition at the Bali summit to push those ideas forward.

The environmental problem is linked to hyper-consumption and the capitalist ideology of infinite expansion as well. It's kinda radical but limits need to be set on personal wealth and the bs policies of this epoch need to come crashing down. We don't even have sovereignty anymore it's all about multinationals.