STV Vote - Yes OR No?

[Dreadnex.Inc]

The BC Liberals and NDP struck a non-partisan agreement about the STV in the last election, thereby ensuring that neither would mention it in the media (which is why many even to this voting day don't know what it is).

Proportionate representation would erode the power structure of both major parties, as well as creating higher levels of inter candidate competition within them.

Two party systems blow, look at the US.

Yay, BC STV.

[rawb]

I am not voting NDP but still voting STV

[dabbler]

i voted yes for STV. definitely worth at least trying, as it would only be for 8 years then a new referendum to see if it should continue...basically anything is worth trying cuz the current system doesn't work that well.

I find it REALLY disappointing how many people have no idea what the STV vote is about, even highly educated people. I am not just saying this because I am for it, but can you imagine how many people must of walked in today to vote wondering what that second brown slip was for? It almost seems pointless of having it if people are just going to guess.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by dabbler

i voted yes for STV. definitely worth at least trying, as it would only be for 8 years then a new referendum to see if it should continue...basically anything is worth trying cuz the current system doesn't work that well.

This is my main argument against people who say "Well the current system sucks, but I don't think STV will work.."

You don't think so, but you don't really know. Whereas we KNOW we're dissatisfied with the status quo. So why not give it a shot and see if you're pleasantly surprised??

Maybe people prefer the devil they know?

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I find it REALLY disappointing how many people have no idea what the STV vote is about, even highly educated people. I am not just saying this because I am for it, but can you imagine how many people must of walked in today to vote wondering what that second brown slip was for? It almost seems pointless of having it if people are just going to guess.

I'm sure that's why last time only got 58% approval. I do feel like people have much more of a clue this time around tho!

[mapleleaf4ever]

Just sayin'

[crackdragon]

^ wow so clever

[rustybob]

Last I heard on the news STV only was at 39% for yes, so it's doubtful it's going to pass. Thank god. The NDP and especially the Greens can keep crying. Hopefully we don't have to keep on rejecting this terrible idea every four years.

[dabbler]

^^ also a moron. do you not realize that a) last time the support was 58% in favour and b) it's actually just an idea? - not a terrible one. just some kind of option, as opposed to doing nothing and keeping the status quo (of which SO much is going wrong)

[rustybob]

Originally Posted by dabbler

^^ also a moron. do you not realize that a) last time the support was 58% in favour and b) it's actually just an idea? - not a terrible one. just some kind of option, as opposed to doing nothing and keeping the status quo (of which SO much is going wrong)

Well, considering suporrt had dropped significantly this time around, either there are a lot of morons or a lot of people smart enough to realize that STV is a terrible idea. First past the post may not be perfect, but the people have spoken... STV is dead, long live first past the post.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by dabbler

^^ also a moron. do you not realize that a) last time the support was 58% in favour and b) it's actually just an idea? - not a terrible one. just some kind of option, as opposed to doing nothing and keeping the status quo (of which SO much is going wrong)

Just because people have a differing opinion on an idea doesn't make them a moron.

A lot of people, including myself have actually done the research and have made judgement based up on that.

It is however funny that after the media blitz by the pro-STV side that they lost support.

[rustybob]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Just because people have a differing opinion on an idea doesn't make them a moron.

A lot of people, including myself have actually done the research and have made judgement based up on that.

It is however funny that after the media blitz by the pro-STV side that they lost support.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I looked into STV both times and made an informed decision, as I do with anything electoral. You're talking to a guy whose ideology falls somewhere between liberal and conservative, but leaning way more towards conservative. Even so, federally I've voted NDP, Liberal (who jumped to Conservative), and NDP. As much as I despise the NDP and pretty much everything they stand for, I've voted for them twice because they've had the best candidate in my riding at that time.

To Dabbler, believe me, I'm not a moron when it comes to politics. I do make an informed decision on both the party's ideologies and the candidate, and decide what's best from there. All three federal elections I've gone again my personal ideology, as that was the best decision for my riding. As much as I more or less just talked shit about STV on here, it was an informed decision on my part.

[gnosis]

Poll 048 Vancouver False Creek (@ Jubilee House)

FPTP 27
STV 28
(1 declined)

Frosty
(ran an honest poll)

[dabbler]

your next two replies are a lot better than "the greens can stop crying", which is why i called you a moron. it's not about the green party, it's about the one party having all the power with only 46% of the popular vote, when another party has 42%. Not a good system for proper representation, which is elections are supposed to be about.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I find it REALLY disappointing how many people have no idea what the STV vote is about, even highly educated people. I am not just saying this because I am for it, but can you imagine how many people must of walked in today to vote wondering what that second brown slip was for? It almost seems pointless of having it if people are just going to guess.

IMHO - and a lot of experts agree that STV is a VERY complicated system to explain or understand. Everytime I 'think' I got what it was about, someone else was there to explain further that my perceptions were incorrect. In fact, every single time I asked someone why they thought STV was a good idea, I got a completely different explanation. It seemed like maybe a lot of the supporters had the wrong idea about the system themselves (and I'm not saying this is the case for all of them at all!).

I'm not trying to flack STV because I think it's a really cool idea. The problem is if you're trying to pass a radical new electoral system you have to do your best to try to introduce something that makes sense and is easily understood. You also have to do your best to educate the masses the best you can. You can put out facebook groups and youtube videos that try to garner support and educate young people, but so many of them can't even be bothered to take 5 minutes out of their day to vote (sad).

I want to definitely thank everyone who volunteered..at my polling station everyone was so friendly despite the fact that they had worked pretty hard all day. kudos to volunteers!

[C_squared]

VOTE YES FOR SCTV!! DO IT FOR THE NEXT GENERATIONS TO COME.



ERRR, WAIT WHAT WERE WE TALKING ABOUT AGAIN?

[C_squared]

Ok point is, regardless if this STV system is complicated or not, I don't think there was enough funding for getting the word out to the masses. When I was asked at the polls if I was aware if there was a referendum going on, I responded "um, yes." And buddy looked at me in shock like I was stoned or something, and I was. I just think he was surprised that I knew what STV was.

There just needs to be an affective way to reach out to potential voters. Also parties need to focus on the 18-24 vote, before any real change can actually take place. Obama style.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by rawb

i am not voting ndp but still voting stv

+1...

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by C_squared

Ok point is, regardless if this STV system is complicated or not, I don't think there was enough funding for getting the word out to the masses. When I was asked at the polls if I was aware if there was a referendum going on, I responded "um, yes." And buddy looked at me in shock like I was stoned or something, and I was. I just think he was surprised that I knew what STV was.

There just needs to be an affective way to reach out to potential voters. Also parties need to focus on the 18-24 vote, before any real change can actually take place. Obama style.

For reals, dawg. Young people are an embarassment. The largest demographic that shows up to vote is 55+ and the older people get, the more people show up to vote. So in essence, tons of elections are decided by the aging populace with a tiny voice piping in from young people. In the last election, only 34% of eligible 18-24 year olds voted. Holy shit!

[rawb]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

It is however funny that after the media blitz by the pro-STV side that they lost support.

You think that's funny? Are you serious?

I think it's utterly tragic when people are making decisions based on fear and misunderstanding, rather than an educated evaluation of the options. The media arguments "for" it were pretty bad and incomplete, but the anti-STV stuff was horrendous fear-mongering. "Oh man, it's too complex" -- "You may not be represented, maybe" -- "What's wrong with what we have?" -- "STV might do this in your riding". There was little educational info either way. Rather than educating the public on the good and bad points it turned into sound bites and little half-truths. Frustrating.

I am pro-STV and of course wanted it to go through. That being said, I would love to see it defeated by an educated, confident voting public who have decided its not good for the province. There is nothing to be joyful about in the defeat of STV in this election when few people know what it means.

[NinjaBoy]

I voted no on STV. Did my research talked to people on both sides of the issue, went over the updated ridings under STV.

My big problem was the huge ridings. STV isn't a terrible system, but under the BC referendum, it was poorly done.

Having downtown Vancouver under the same riding as West Van, and south Van is crazy.

I live in a densely populated area (VS South Van or west Van), so my area would get more attention then that. But one of my big issues in Provincial/civic elections is renters rights. The NDP who one the by-election, and the one last night, is a huge advocate of renter's rights. That issue is important in my riding, but not so much in South Van. So a fair representation wouldn't occur in my opinion.

I also felt there were other issues (IE accountability) under the STV system.

A lot of people who I talked to were pro STV because it was time for a change. That may be the case, but don't vote for change for the sake of change. Make sure the system you get behind is one that you can agree with.

[C_squared]

Yah people are fear hating sheep. That's definitely not funny.

edit: @rawb @mapleleaf

[mapleleaf4ever]

NinjaBoy sums up the issues with STV exactly.

As I've said a bajillion times with regards to STV, it's not suited to the political landscape of this Province and would cause more problems than it solves.

No point in changing for the sake of change. It dicks things up for everyone every time. period.

[ebbomega]

How is 40% of the voting populous electing a majority government more suited to the political landscape of this province?