did some 15 year old die at twisted?!

[Sean]

I don't go to raves anymore really because I don't enjoy partying with kids that are my little sister's age.

BTW, anyone who seriously thinks that the Plaza closing down is going to result in less kids doing drugs is the BIGGEST FUCKING IDIOT ON THE PLANET.

[TinkerBell07]

^^^^^
Agreed!!!!!!!!!!

[Pussy_Kat]

ppl when were your first parties
cuz for alot of u they were when u were 15 or 16 MEANING that u too were still young
so why penalize ppl from going to their first party at 15 when u did too.........now im not saying EVERYONE started raving younger then the age most of us wish ravers were but most of u started partying young too
make any sence?

[~*faeryfly*~]

^^^teehee, good call Kat! I was 15, so I'm not about to judge :kimmie:

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Pussy_Kat
ppl when were your first parties
cuz for alot of u they were when u were 15 or 16 MEANING that u too were still young
so why penalize ppl from going to their first party at 15 when u did too.........now im not saying EVERYONE started raving younger then the age most of us wish ravers were but most of u started partying young too
make any sence?

1) I started partying at 16. However, I don't so much razz on people partying at 16 but the plethoric mass of people partying at not just 16 but 14 and 13. Not to mention I didn't touch any of the drugs, not even alcohol, until I was at least 17 and it was a good deal longer before I did anything other than alcohol. Point is that originally raves were considered an adult thing where adult things happen and as such the babysitters working at genesis and the cops who are always working a beat at raves weren't necessary, even at massives with 3000+ people or whatnot. In fact, cops would show up, look around, see a bunch of adults having a good time, make sure there isn't anything that's going to piss off neighbors/cause a ruckus and leave. End of story. Heck, I've seen that happen even since anti-rave bylaws were passed in Burnaby. Cops showed up, spoke with a bunch of adults, looked inside, saw a bunch of adults having a good time, told the promoters to turn down the music a bit for the neighbors' sakes, they didn't want to come back here tonight, have a nice night, be on their way.

And why? Because it wasn't a bunch of 15 and 16 year olds kicking around. There was a couple but the average age around the party was about 25 or so. And it was a pretty crazy party where everybody was having a good time. Just pure unbridled hedonism and good music to dance to all night. What, in my opinion (Spare the "Thanks Ishkur" comments please) a rave SHOULD be. And it's really difficult to do that when you have a bunch of high school kids who need to be chapperoned by rent-a-cops who treat even the adults like 15 year olds, only more harrassing because apparently being over the age of 20 equates to you being a drug dealer.

There's a lot of reasons for people to bash the younger generation because they've done an exceptionally good job of ruining it for the rest of us. These days you can't get a decent party for more than 500 people going really without heading out to Chilliwack or Squamish.

As a result, fewer older people go to raves because they keep getting consistently flooded with these 15 year olds who do a shitload of drugs and act all high and just totally ruin the experience.

Frankly, there's a level of maturity I find needed with going to raves. And if you think you can find it in the plaza of nations with 2000 teenagers, a fair amount of which are doing some form of rather harsh drug, then you must have found the 2000 most mature 15 year olds in the world.

But whatever. Go to your plaza raves. For the love of god do what you do safely though. And no matter what anybody says, that fourth cap is NOT a good idea. All I can hope is that you go through the typical stages and in the end become a better person for it, and plead that it doesn't completely jade you on the concept of raving and that one day maybe you can experience what a real rave tastes like. And all the chaos and craziness that ensues without anybody really saying to you every five minutes "I'M SO HIGH!"

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Sean
I don't go to raves anymore really because I don't enjoy partying with kids that are my little sister's age.

BTW, anyone who seriously thinks that the Plaza closing down is going to result in less kids doing drugs is the BIGGEST FUCKING IDIOT ON THE PLANET.

You know what? I personally think it will. You know why? Because sooner or later all this buzz around "raves" is going to die. Frankly, it may not keep kids from doing drugs, but it'll keep stupid sheep from doing 5 caps and a rail of coke in one night.

If kids are smart enough to throw and maintain an illegal underground rave scene then power to them. By all means, do your drugs and enjoy them. But I get this feeling that your typical plaza attendee is not going to be very enthused about the idea of actually having to find a party rather than letting the party find you.

[Pussy_Kat]

^ its really not the fact they do drugs and shit anymore its older ravers getting angry at the fact there parties are effecting the younger generation rather then the older one now
im sorry about all the kids there that are immature and give ppl like me a bad name
i party safe and im probally one of the nicest ppl youll meet and im having to suffer from this cuz of all the kids you guys hate out there
its not fair to me
i dont want to be part of your fucking classification
thats why im angry and bitter about this is cuz u all make it seem like younger kids partying at the plaza is such a bad idea
i dont go to do drugs i go for the music and the ppl
i love the ppl i meet and so far i havent met anyone who doesnt like me cuz im 16
UNTILL THIS THREAD
all ive heard on this board is how bad teenage ravers are and thats a HORRIBLE thing to say
thats like me saying all the ppl over 30 that go are BAD ppl and only go to mack on younger ppl or some sorta stereotype like that
when you go out there and you meet every teenage raver then u can come and tell me that they are ruining partying or w/e u guys are trying to say but untill then meet me and judge me on what u think not that classification of age i happen to fall under

[TinkerBell07]

well the whole thing i agreed on is that with Plaza shuting down wont really result in kids stop doing drugs....kids are doing shit every where.....not every one just does drugs at raves....thats what makes me upset that in some perspcetive that us ravers are sterio typed as E poping..ghb drinking...k snorting..acid droping...and what ever eles is on the list type of people....have you seen the documentries on tv about raves and shit...like damn!! Pure Evilness!!!!!! Yes i agree with you Pussy_cat and i totaly respect you for that.....ITS NOT ALL KIDS that over do it there are some responsible ones out there....that are over 14 lmao!!! It just seems to upset me to see 13-14 yrs olds hurting their future i guess thats how to put it....its not just at raves...its every where. when i was 13-14 which seems to be like ages ago i didnt even know that other drugs except pot (but thats not a drug lol) out there existed. I dont know but pussy_cat PROPS TO YOU ((((((HUGZ))))))

[ebbomega]

Fucking FnK. So I wrote out a nice big reply to your post and then the little time limit I have between clicks expired and I ended up losing the post. But I'm going to type it out again in hopes that you actually pay attention, because I really think it's important that you hear what I have to say.

Originally posted by Pussy_Kat
^ its really not the fact they do drugs and shit anymore its older ravers getting angry at the fact there parties are effecting the younger generation rather then the older one now

No. Not that at all. It's that the younger generation is ruining it for everybody else. It's developed into such a society (Do drugs and dance. That's about it) that any chance for anything interesting to happen at a plaza rave has been completely torn to threads. The age of people going to raves has been on a steady decline for the last about 7 or 8 years. And the younger it gets, the more watered down it seems. Gone are the days of reckless hedonistic abandonment. These days your typical plaza rave is a Britney Spears concert with no chairs. Woo. Where do I get in line for that?

im sorry about all the kids there that are immature and give ppl like me a bad name
i party safe and im probally one of the nicest ppl youll meet and im having to suffer from this cuz of all the kids you guys hate out there

Suffer? Hein? When did I accuse you specifically of doing this? You seemed to be wondering why there was such resentment towards kids from the older generation, I'm telling you why. Like I said, I was 16 when I started partying. But the thing was there were very few people my age that were there. Now, aside from your typical Azn Kru that likes to conglomerate around the Trance stage are kids around 16. And it's not that we don't like the Plaza. Frankly I think it's an excellent venue and it'd be great for massives if it worth for the plethoric mass of kids who need supervision. And this is where Genesis comes in. I got shit from one of these rent-a-cops for waving around a no smoking sign that was lying on the floor. Then he throws the sign away from me and it nearly pegs some kid's eye out. What the fuck was I doing that required a stern talking to? I WAS WAVING A SIGN! But, you see, waving a sign neither falls under "doing drugs" nor "dancing" and as such is therefore Wrong. So why the hell would I bother going to a plaza rave at all? I'm 22, and in 1998 it wasn't wholly uncommon to see a 22 year old doing their thing at a party. Now if I go to a party, I'm treated like a goddamn drug dealer. Despite the fact that I'm rarely even on any type of drug, especially at a rave. The point is that your generation, and mine as well, are responsible for this sad deterioration of the scene from reckless abandonment to having all the tension and atmosphere of a top40 club without the open bar. Woo. Where do I get in line for that?

its not fair to me
i dont want to be part of your fucking classification
thats why im angry and bitter about this is cuz u all make it seem like younger kids partying at the plaza is such a bad idea
i dont go to do drugs i go for the music and the ppl
i love the ppl i meet and so far i havent met anyone who doesnt like me cuz im 16
UNTILL THIS THREAD

Like I said. I'm not talking about you per se, unless you are one of these kids giving raves a bad name. And like I said, 16 year old kids have always been going to raves. Didn't seem to hurt it so much back when they were at their prime, why now? And like I said: it's because the scene is so dominated by the sheep of the world (of which you may very well not be a part of) with the maturity level of a 16-year-old that these massives need babysitting. And all that does is hamper my ability to have fun. Sorry, but just doing drugs and dancing doesn't really do it for me so much.

But please don't take this personally. Keep in mind that this is the internet, and that if anything, it's a great medium for self-righteous fucks and armchair philosophers to bring out their overblown opinions and if you want to get pissed off at them, either learn some good flaming skills or just don't take it so seriously.

all ive heard on this board is how bad teenage ravers are and thats a HORRIBLE thing to say
thats like me saying all the ppl over 30 that go are BAD ppl and only go to mack on younger ppl or some sorta stereotype like that
when you go out there and you meet every teenage raver then u can come and tell me that they are ruining partying or w/e u guys are trying to say but untill then meet me and judge me on what u think not that classification of age i happen to fall under [/b]

I think saying how bad these teenage-driven raves are is nowhere near HORRIBLE. Like I said, they've ruined the entire experience so that all that you can do is the same thing everybody else is doing, and if ever you try to deviate then get back in line. It's an experiment that failed. I'm not saying you or any other specific person is responsible, but that the mob mentality of these things is outright killing the entire essence of what these things are about.

Who knows. Some day I might meet you, and hopefully you wouldn't have held me in too much hatred to think anything against me for my opinions. You might even think of me a cool guy. You might hate me. But who knows. Feel free to walk up and introduce yourself to me if you ever see me at a party. I'll be the guy without any pants on.

[Pussy_Kat]

^^ i dont hate u at all i totally respect your opinion on this and its valued to me
about the sheep thing ive been listening to the music since i was like 13 or 14 and ive wanted to go to a rave for along time once i turned 16 i felt i was old enuff to go....then i read this post
im not saying that everything ur saying is wrong but i am definatly not agreeing with u
i dont like the kids that could my younger sister there either....i started goign to get away from the everyday partying and start doing something with ppl my age and older
if u put an age limit on these it will condone kids to sneak in or do drugs else where or w/e
theres a negative side to everything
i live in victoria and i got to house parties all the time
guess who i see there
13 and 14 year olds WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED
i mean there everywhere
there will be a younger generation attending every event weather its for their age or not
thats like saying a 10 year old cant listen to christina aguleria cuz of her dirty video or something
and i hope i meet u one day too so u can take me out of your classification and put me into what that states its ok with u for me to be there
but thats your call............

[ebbomega]

^^ I'm not saying that they shouldn't listen to the music or whatever. But they shouldn't be going to raves, in very much the same way that they shouldn't be going to clubs (except without the law in place).

A lot of adult stuff happens at raves, and like I said, even 16 year olds saturating these things brings them down. I don't care how "mature for their age" a person is, 1000 16 year olds doing drugs at Plaza I would never consider to be a Good Thing.

You never were in my "classification" to begin with. Heck, you have better grammar than some of the 19 year olds on this board *cough* and seems to stick to your guns, which suggests that you probably have a lot of passion and enthusiasm. I admire that, honestly.

But I'm still going to say your generation (READ: Generation, not you) is fucking it up for the rest of us. Don't worry. Mine did it too. And forever will the teenagers be doing it. It doesn't mean we don't think you're specifically cool. It just sucks is all.

[Pussy_Kat]

i totally agree with your point of view cuz i met SO MANY young girls at the plaza on NYE and it seems to be girls more then guys and thats what scares me .......
thank you by the way for that compliment
i also admire the fact that u can still respond to my posts even tho i am one of those 16 year olds u speak of
if i could i would apoligize on behalf of all the ppl that made u feel this way
having a bunch of 16 year olds doing drugs in the plaza, i agree spells big trouble
the plaza does search ppl and i think putting an age limit on it may be something they will have to look into
i just dont think it would be fair to those who go to raves to have fun
not to do drugs

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Pussy_Kat

the plaza does search ppl

Well this all seems null and void now that Plaza's officially dead, but still, it happened at Raverside and it will happen at the Coliseum or GM place or wherever the Next Big Venue is if there is one anymore. If not I say great, let's keep it underground and whatnot. CHECKPOINTS WHUT! But anyways,

Searches at Plaza are jokes. Mostly they're for people bringing enough to sell (IE more than can be fit in your boxer shorts). Crotching drugs is an easy technique and gets security every time. And like I said, searches and security acting all dicklike is one reason I personally hate going to plaza (or love, depending on my agenda). But basically any kid with half a brain can get drugs into the plaza and those that can't can either buy them there (there's a smart move) or do them before they get in.

and i think putting an age limit on it may be something they will have to look into
i just dont think it would be fair to those who go to raves to have fun
not to do drugs

Well, I say let plaza die and if you want to listen to the music and even do the drugs, then put up the effort of getting involved with an underground scene. That's how we did it 2-4 years ago and it's how we're gonna keep doing it in the future. Who knows? You might even like the vibe a lot better. I personally prefer 300 people sweating their asses off in a warehouse and randomly hugging some person next to you because... hey.... it feels good... than have 3000 people who would sooner deck you out if you did so much as look at their girlfriend, let alone give them a hug.

I remember when they were talking about doing an age cap at Plaza because, like I said, OVER 20 AT PLAZA MUST MEAN DRUG DEALER! Oh well. Age limits and searches are, in my opinion, one of the many things currently bedraggling the concept of a "rave" (look it up in a dictionary. Forget about the allnight dance parties and just look at the design of the word itself.... that's what it's about...)

Alright. I'm cutting this short. I'm off to go to earn money so I can continue to RAVE!

[Pussy_Kat]

hahah true true
but wont we get a new venue?
i mean u cant have thousands of ravers in the vancouver/van island area with no good place to party
victoria sucks for parties so were just as fucked here
i mean u have some very good points i just dont think im ok with the fact im still in that catagory to most of you and none of u know me to judge for yourself
the new venue is going to have the same problem
if not a worse one then it is now
its a new place attracting new different ppl
i dont know im worried that the scene is officially at its end
well almost
its sad

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Pussy_Kat
[b]hahah true true
but wont we get a new venue?
i mean u cant have thousands of ravers in the vancouver/van island area with no good place to party

There are plenty, and there always have been. If ravers really care they'll bandy together and throw some illegal parties and life will once again thrive in Vancouver. Coliseum's still kicking around as a plausible venue and I'm certain that there will be considerable use made out of the many convention and cultural centres around town.

victoria sucks for parties so were just as fucked here

Island = Excellent summertime venues. Forestry Pools just outside Duncan has always been one of my favourites (been to many a party, including my first, there) and there's a LOT of forest area around Sooke just begging for a massive.

If people have the will to party people will party. It's that simple. The number of parties I've been at in "rave-free" zones is astounding. Downtown eastside, sketchy as it is, has some decent venues and is generally low-heat compared to say Kitts. We still have the beaches in the Greater UBC Area and there's always a good warehouse or two all over town.

It's just we'll need to be a lot more discrete about it than we have. Checkpoints, well concealed areas, etc.

i mean u have some very good points i just dont think im ok with the fact im still in that catagory to most of you and none of u know me to judge for yourself

For what it's worth, and I don't speak for every pretentious elitist(tm) kicking around fnk, but I personally don't automatically raz on any one person just because they happen to be in the demographic I describe. Unless it's online, but I'm in general a dick to everybody online. Including my friends. But if I can't be a dick online, how am I supposed to vent my dick-dom?

the new venue is going to have the same problem
if not a worse one then it is now
its a new place attracting new different ppl
i dont know im worried that the scene is officially at its end
well almost
its sad

Scene in my opinion was officially at its end about a year or two ago, and most recently a resurgence has been kicking around the plaza. But a venue does not a scene make, nor should it ever. There shouldn't be "a new venue" in my opinion as the rave scene wasn't born out of venues. It was born out of people, and they could happen just about anywhere that could contain a bunch of ravers for a weekend.

It'd be a very VERY sad state of affairs if the Plaza shutting down meant the end of the Vancouver Rave Scene, and I really hope it's not the case.

"Not with a bang but a whimper."

[Pussy_Kat]

humm yeah i guess so
u know being a dick wont get u anywhere :p :p :p :p
anyways......the island i agree has awsome summer venues but during the winter its a no go
thank you for all your time uve put into having a convo with me on this thread
it means alot
i got a chance to express my opinion getting props and negative feed back from it
i thank you for that

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Pussy_Kat
u know being a dick wont get u anywhere :p :p :p :p

Tell that to Michael Mann.

But I digress. It is sure good for a few cheap laughs at other people's expense, though. =)

[G-Style]

OK YOU CAN NOT I REPEAT CAN NOT BLAME A RAVE OF ANY KIND NO MATTER WHERE IT IS ON A KID DOING TOO MANY DRUGS. I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY WE HAVE ALL DONE OUR FAIR SHARE OF COCKTAILS BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THE RESPOSABILITY HAS TO FALL ON SOMEONE> RAVE PROMOTERS DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER INCLUDING HAVING TRAINED MEDICAL PEOPLE ON SITE TO AVOID HAVING ANY PROBLEMS. SOME KIDS JUST DONT HAVE A CLUE AND THAT'S NOONES FAULT BUT THEIR OWN>
G
SORRY TO SOUND HARSH BUT I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE PASSING THE BLAME TO OTHERS WHEN THE BLAME SHOULD BE PLACED ONTHEMSELVES.

[ebbomega]

^^ The quality of your argument is completely undercut by your inability to find the Caps Lock key.

[Pussy_Kat]

^ LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NeVeRLooKBacK]

Originally posted by ebbomega
^^ The quality of your argument is completely undercut by your inability to find the Caps Lock key.

I must say
that damn cap locks key can be tough to find

[Tattoology]

Wouldn't anyone die from E ? Not only 15yrs old. But i guess maybe younger people don't know their limits. Why not just make it 16 or 18 and above only for raves? Meh! Just my opinion.

[NeVeRLooKBacK]

I mean in all honesty
I'd rather see people get gooned out of their mind at a rave rather than at a house party
at least the majority of raves have a trained medical staff
so if you do royally fuck yourself over help wont be too far away

[ebbomega]

Originally posted by Tattoology
Wouldn't anyone die from E ? Not only 15yrs old. But i guess maybe younger people don't know their limits. Why not just make it 16 or 18 and above only for raves? Meh! Just my opinion.

Again, defeats the purpose.

Point I'm making is that a large concentration of younger people is more prone to be stupid than a few amidst adults. I have nothing wrong with having 15 year olds at parties. I have something wrong with them overrunning the parties and needing babysitters.

And people don't die from E. People die from being stupid.

[Pussy_Kat]

^^^^ AGREED
thats the one thing i REALLY agree with you on