American Hegemony:The fall and rise of a new superpower?

[Moon]

I know there are tons of anti-americans on this board so this should stir some shit up

Now for those who arn't familiar with the term hegemony, it is to be the predominant state of influence on other nations. Now i know tons of you really don't support American hegemony and you should state why, whether it be their stupidness to their propaganda and conspiracy

I for one obviously have VERY mixed feelings on American predominance but i learn on supporting it. Why? Well to make it simple someones gotta do it. During the cold war we saw the rise of 2 VERY powerful nations (the Soviets and the USA).... and the end to one of them just about a decade ago. The fate of the USA? who knows.... but the world holds together today because of them. Yeah theres been issues of controversy over Iraq, terrorism, Vietnam yaddaya, but we live in a world governed by humans... we all make mistakes no matter how wise we are

but say the Americans fall.

Who will be the next super power? As of now, I can arguably say the Chinese and the Japanese are STRONG contenders for new world hegemony. And excuse me if i sound opininated on nationality and culture but this should be something EVERYONE should be worried about.

I don't want the Americans to fall. South Korea was probably one of the first countries to be influenced by American Hegemony but hey we were saved from communism and a potentially horrible dictatorship of Kim Il Sung. The Americans may have made some money off it, but so have the South Koreans. My country and family owe our lives to the Americans

and for those who are aware of Japanese dominance efforts in South East Asia, be afraid once again.....

I support the Chinese and the Americans.....

[mapleleaf4ever]

Although you should also consider the ever strenghening European Union. With all of their internal borders, trade barriers, currencies and government agents merging, they could prove to be a force in the future should the USA start their decline on the International Stage. Although I'm wondering what the deal with Asia is... they've been way too quiet...

[Moon]

very true about the European Union... but they are too close to the US... if anything, the union will be on the Americans side i think

and yes

the asians have been VERY quiet

[Senior]

Originally posted by k-pryde:
I know there are tons of anti-americans on this board so this should stir some shit up

I disagree. I don't think that many people are anti American but rather they oppose American foreign policy or the behaviour of American corporations.

Originally posted by k-pryde:
Now for those who arn't familiar with the term hegemony, it is to be the predominant state of influence on other nations. Now i know tons of you really don't support American hegemony and you should state why, whether it be their stupidness to their propaganda and conspiracy

In the big picture of human history the post industrial revolution time frame is very short. Yet in this short amount of time people have grown to assume that it is a sustainable way of life. This is contrary to the facts and American hegemony is constantly moving us closer to catastrophe. This is all in the name of profiteering; War profits, oil profits, slave labour profits and profits on the suffering of others.

Originally posted by k-pryde:
I for one obviously have VERY mixed feelings on American predominance but i learn on supporting it. Why? Well to make it simple someones gotta do it. During the cold war we saw the rise of 2 VERY powerful nations (the Soviets and the USA).... and the end to one of them just about a decade ago. The fate of the USA? who knows.... but the world holds together today because of them. Yeah theres been issues of controversy over Iraq, terrorism, Vietnam yaddaya, but we live in a world governed by humans... we all make mistakes no matter how wise we are

I'm not going to say that any other nation would be better or worse at "running the show." However that does not mean that we shouldn't push for things to be better and in no ways proves that the Americans are any more capable of being on top.

Originally posted by k-pryde:
but say the Americans fall.

If they keep on the course they are it's a guarantee that they will fall. The downfall of an empire is marked among other things by the investing of trust in miracles (see push praying that the war in Iraq would not be needed) and false profits (Dubya?).

Originally posted by k-pryde:
Who will be the next super power? As of now, I can arguably say the Chinese and the Japanese are STRONG contenders for new world hegemony. And excuse me if i sound opininated on nationality and culture but this should be something EVERYONE should be worried about.

I don't want the Americans to fall. South Korea was probably one of the first countries to be influenced by American Hegemony but hey we were saved from communism and a potentially horrible dictatorship of Kim Il Sung. The Americans may have made some money off it, but so have the South Koreans. My country and family owe our lives to the Americans

and for those who are aware of Japanese dominance efforts in South East Asia, be afraid once again.....

I support the Chinese and the Americans.....

In all likelihood I see China as a possible successor to the U.S. They are the worlds number 1 manufacturer of goods and have a huge population.

[SEAN!]

china, india, u.s, the eu

[Moon]

what about japan?

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by k-pryde
what about japan?

not a chance.

thier economic power peaked in the mid 80's and has been slowly declining since 1989. In the fifteen years since 1989 they been in a recession for like 8 of them. Their country is a case study in some macroeconomic bullshit i mostly forgot two years ago. but they;ll never be a super power because they lack the imperialistic/militaristic ambitions they used to have, and they lack the econonic/military power to fullfill those ambitions if they had them. Secondly their society is going through a revolution kind of like the one in north america in the 1960's-70;s but alot more subtl in typical japanese fashion. this could be a result of the errosion of alot of what was promised to them but cant be fulfilled because of the flaggin economy, apprently the youth of japan dont share the same values as their parents do.

[Moon]

hmmm

interesting

well that was good to know i never knew that

[Lunch Box]

Place Your bets who's next to "Pull A Hitler"?

[Senior]

Originally posted by Lunch Box:
Place Your bets who's next to "Pull A Hitler"?

The Bush administration projects military spending of $3,200,000,000,000 between 2000-2008... I wonder what that's for? This is in comparison to the $3,100,000,000,000 (inflation adjusted $'s) that the U.S. spent between 1941-1948.

[Moon]

the US is filled with VERY smart people

i'll have to give them my respect for their careful and cautious forecasting

give them the props for the IVY League system. They deserve it

and I pray everyday that the US will sustain what they have accomplished since WW2

[Moon]

and to add to that

the United Stages is not a culture and a historically interesting nation compared to other countries around the world

It is a unified nation of all races, nationalities and cultures

Only the US can suceed in world hegemony

[Senior]

Originally posted by k-pryde:
the US is filled with VERY smart people

i'll have to give them my respect for their careful and cautious forecasting

give them the props for the IVY League system. They deserve it

and I pray everyday that the US will sustain what they have accomplished since WW2

In many ways that is true. However if you look at the current administration they have completely disregarded that careful planning with regards to the war in Iraq. The CIA, the State Department, the Army and the Marine Corps, the United States Agency for International Development, and the State Department's Future of Iraq project all did reports pointing to the problems that would be faced. These reports have proved to be as accurate as the pre war intelligence assessments were inaccurate. The problem is that the administration just didn't want to listen to the recommendations for political reasons.

What do you mean though by "and I pray everyday that the US will sustain what they have accomplished since WW2." They have managed to accumulate a hugely disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the rest of the world and establish a highly destructive consumer culture. Assuming that it wasn't the Americans that held this power for the last 50 years I'm not saying things would be any better but in no way does that make it any better what the Americans have done.

[Moon]

i'll say it again and i wanna make this really clear : the American's didn't do it, human nature did it.

human nature? what the fuck is human nature?

i'll sum it up here
The fact that humans are not Gods. We are people full of our own flaws, evils, goods and unique attributes. Human nature is the survival of a civillization, a society, an agricultural group, a hunter gatherer society, a nomadic family, a person on their own.

Human Nature

Don't blame the Americans
Blame Human Nature

[Moon]

and about your facts

you can present many facts and i'll agree

you're right the bush administration has many flaws and may be the biggest mistake american voters have ever made in american history. you're right their intentions in Iraq may be be over run by greed rather than peace

and what i mean that i pray for the sustainment of american hegemony? nolan you can read my other post and reasoning once again. and just to add on top of what you said about their overwhelming wealth. of course they are gonna accumulate that much being the most powerful nation in the world

[Senior]

Sorry man, not trying to personaly attack you, more on this later but anyway check out this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/fallows.htm

[Moon]

It's all good man i'm down always for talk that matters

:keebler:

i'll check it out

[mugsy]

Originally posted by k-pryde
i'll say it again and i wanna make this really clear : the American's didn't do it, human nature did it.

human nature? what the fuck is human nature?

i'll sum it up here
The fact that humans are not Gods. We are people full of our own flaws, evils, goods and unique attributes. Human nature is the survival of a civillization, a society, an agricultural group, a hunter gatherer society, a nomadic family, a person on their own.

Human Nature

Don't blame the Americans
Blame Human Nature

in a sense i agree, and i can see (i think) where you are coming from. and you could almot break it down further to animal nature. survival of the fittest and so on.
human nature has changed though... i wouldnt make it so basic. human nature now is to consume, and not consume to live, but consume to be comfertable. and not all human nature is like this. i would say north american human nature is the nature to consume. you go to a third world country and people there consume to survive. animals\vegitation does not go extinct, and in alot of these places there is more over-population. but they seem to be able to live ....
think of how many people "cant go on with out watchin friends.." media is evil.. and even when one is watchin their harmless afterschool specails, clips and shots of news are thrown into the commercails.

personally i think the US is already falling. take a look back at the roman empire... theres some comparisons at the time of their fall tot he times of the americans right now. fighting\war is being glamorized, rich gettin richer....

the fear is eating at america as well, but i also think it is eating at canada a bit too.

its going to be an interesting decade.

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by Senior


In many ways that is true. However if you look at the current administration they have completely disregarded that careful planning with regards to the war in Iraq. The CIA, the State Department, the Army and the Marine Corps, the United States Agency for International Development, and the State Department's Future of Iraq project all did reports pointing to the problems that would be faced. These reports have proved to be as accurate as the pre war intelligence assessments were inaccurate. The problem is that the administration just didn't want to listen to the recommendations for political reasons.

What do you mean though by "and I pray everyday that the US will sustain what they have accomplished since WW2." They have managed to accumulate a hugely disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the rest of the world and establish a highly destructive consumer culture. Assuming that it wasn't the Americans that held this power for the last 50 years I'm not saying things would be any better but in no way does that make it any better what the Americans have done.

the wealth generated by the american economy and the industrialized world's consumer culture is what makes North America Western Europe and Japan the best places to live in the world.

[Moon]

mugsy

you have a good idea what i'm talking about
and yes of course i could of broken it down even further there are books and volume after volume on animal nature and instict.

=)

[decypher]

k i haven't read the whole post cuz im a little loaded but i'll just drop a quick comment...

I believe that the the world today is in the form it is because of human nature. That drive for power, control and money. Americans especially, leading this forefront. under developed countries are suffering because of our standard of living. Somewhere along the path of history, certain powers rose up (france, britain, spain) and exerted there power apon the world in the form of imperialism, and we are the product of that. Sure its easy to say that the american government is blood thirsty, and INDEED they have sold weapons to countrys, been apart of killing alot of people, oppressed peoples of other countrys and supported there economic interests. But if u look at it in a different light, u see that we TOO are supporting this by not doing anything, we sit here on our computers in our luxurious way of living, throwing out scraps of food, watching TV and complaining about the horrible things governments do when really we are supporting it by doing nothing and living this life... so think next time u buy something from mcdonalds, or turn on the tv. That this was all paid for with blood of millions apon millions of innocent men, women and children who's name shall never be remembered or spoken.

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by mugsy


in a sense i agree, and i can see (i think) where you are coming from. and you could almot break it down further to animal nature. survival of the fittest and so on.
human nature has changed though... i wouldnt make it so basic. human nature now is to consume, and not consume to live, but consume to be comfertable. and not all human nature is like this. i would say north american human nature is the nature to consume. you go to a third world country and people there consume to survive. animals\vegitation does not go extinct, and in alot of these places there is more over-population. but they seem to be able to live ....
think of how many people "cant go on with out watchin friends.." media is evil.. and even when one is watchin their harmless afterschool specails, clips and shots of news are thrown into the commercails.

i think you underestimate the "discomfort" of living in the ab poverty found in the third world. true they are consuming just to survive but that is merely because they have no choice otherwise. If they had established industrail economies like us they would be just as greedy and selfish as we are, like martin said its simply human nature.

i also think you underestimate the amount of pollution produced by thrid world countries. pollution standards in the third world are no where as stringent as they are in industrailized countries, they still use cfcs and ddt, their factories pollute far heavier then ours, they may not have primary sewage treatment in alot of european countries but in the third world they dont even have sanitation systems and essentialy they pollutwe their own dirnking water. alot of this has to do wiht the desperate situation that they face, because of their poverty they really dont have a choice. The biggest potential threat to the world's environment is not the continued consumption of resources by the first world but rather the effects of the continued industrailiziation, and population growth in the third world. Production in the first world is far more efficient in both the externalities produced such as air and water pollution but also the resources that are required, relative to the third world. secondly we must take into the account the disparity in population and birthrates between the first world and the third world. First of all the first world has a much smaller proportion of the worlds population, though per capita our resource consumption and pollution production is higher then the third world, as the population of third world continues to grow in absolute size, as well as per capita consumption as a result of increased industrailizaition they will begin to cause far much more damamge then us. Also take into account the fact that in many of the industrialized nations the birthrate is beginning to fall below replacement rate as well as continued technological innovations in production which result in reduced demand for resources combined with the fact that much of the first world's economy is based on "cleaner" industries and this sector will continue to grow. we will see a shift as the ecological footprint of the first world is fast eclipsed by that of the thrid world(many economists seem to think this has actually already happened) So unless we can get the third world to stop industrailizing and reduce the size of their populations and their birth rates below replacement rate which wont happen, or adopt more stringent employment and environmental standards then the ones already implemented in industrialized nations(which will DEFENIATELY not happen) we're all fucked.

so in conclusion: it dosnt matter whose consumer culture is doing what or who started whatever because continued globalization and the economic development in the third world as well as the first world is inevitable due to greed which is largely human nature. basically what im trying to say is..we cant do anything to stop continued environmental degredation and consumption of non reneable resources(unless we eliminate like 1/2 of the world's population or some miracle technology is developed, and it has to be one that isnt too expensive either) essentail were all gonna die so we might as well consume as much as we cna in the meantime..and fuck worrying about your children or your children's children because it was having all those fuckin kids that fucked everything up in the first place.


P.S senior you should check out www.clubofrome.org im sure you would love their shit.

p.p.s its kind of hard to explan this bullshit in text over the internet when your tired from studying. so if you dont understand it ill bring some nice graphs and stupid bullshit functions to illustrate this stupid econ bullshit.

[mugsy]

sorry sean.. shoulda been more specific in my post...
yes i know due to the slower development of industry that the pollution is higher, and in no way are the living conditions great... however having talked to my friend who was in africa for 3 months living with people who were not in prime conditions, she saw much more enjoyment through there lives then through her own. BUT she also saw the hardships, the aids, the large families (= big population) not being able to find clean water, being on a strict diet..... the list goes on. i didnt mean that being in a third world situation is enlightening or better, i just meant to point out the unneccessary consumption we partake in.
anyways.. i'll stop here. sean we will talk about this some other time, im sure it would be a very good conversation.

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by mugsy
sorry sean.. shoulda been more specific in my post...
yes i know due to the slower development of industry that the pollution is higher, and in no way are the living conditions great... however having talked to my friend who was in africa for 3 months living with people who were not in prime conditions, she saw much more enjoyment through there lives then through her own. BUT she also saw the hardships, the aids, the large families (= big population) not being able to find clean water, being on a strict diet..... the list goes on. i didnt mean that being in a third world situation is enlightening or better, i just meant to point out the unneccessary consumption we partake in.
anyways.. i'll stop here. sean we will talk about this some other time, im sure it would be a very good conversation.

i dunno, sorry for being an asshole..i dont think dying of dieases that were eradicated 100 years ago in most developed countries is a very enjoyable existance.

[mugsy]

no you werent being an asshole, i wasnt being clear... i just didnt want to type alot. i just didnt want to leave myslef sounding completely uneducated.. thats why the rebudle.
hey man, i had scarlette fever... i kinda understand a bit of old school illness (that was a bad joke)
but dude i was serious about talking about this another time, typing sucks.