same-sex marriage in canada

[sidekick]

although all of the States in the U.S. election this week voted to ban same-sex marriage, Canada is quite different.

Saskatchewan has just allowed same-sex marriage. so now gay couples can get married legally in: Ontario, British Columbia, Quebec, Manitoba, Yukon, Nova Scotia, and Saskatchewan.

Read The Globe and Mail Article

[-ff-]

Ah yes, go us!

Of course, we're still way behind Europe on a lot of other stuff, (welfare state, GMOs, proportional representation, drug issues), but man do we beat the pants off the Yanks on this issue.

[sidekick]

^yeah for sure our welfare state is declining into the shitter...but hopefully we can turn that around too.

[Gusto]

I get in arguments with a coworker all the time about same sex marriages. It's so frustrating dealing with closed minded people sometimes. Gaah. It's good to see we're going in the right direction though.

[neoh]

same sex marriages shouldent be allowed, in my humble opion.

why after how many thousands of years man and wife have been married, now all of a sudden in the year 2004 they think it should happen?

don't get me started.

[-ff-]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

^yeah for sure our welfare state is declining into the shitter...but hopefully we can turn that around too.

Alas, it doesnt really look like we're moving in that direction - if anything, we're moving further to the right. Dont expect singe-tiered medicare to last out the decade.

At least we might be seeing some movement on the PR issue though - referendum on Single Transferrable Vote this may! YES!

[-ff-]

Originally Posted by neoh

why after how many thousands of years man and wife have been married, now all of a sudden in the year 2004 they think it should happen?

Why all of a sudden should they be allowed? Dude, I think a better question is why on earth should the government have ANY say as to which two people can get married?

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by neoh

same sex marriages shouldent be allowed, in my humble opion.

why after how many thousands of years man and wife have been married, now all of a sudden in the year 2004 they think it should happen?

don't get me started.

i'm for equal rights for all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation. that's my take on it, anyway. why after years of black slavery did we decide that it was a bad idea? because we realized that what was going on was wrong. the same thing will happen here. maybe not everywhere, not yet, but given time. but yeah, i won't get started.

[neoh]

Originally Posted by -ff-

Why all of a sudden should they be allowed? Dude, I think a better question is why on earth should the government have ANY say as to which two people can get married?

sorry, let me re-phrase, you're right.

why is it all of a sudden the "in-thing" to do? Thousands of years man and woman have been getting married, now they feel man and man should be?

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by neoh

sorry, let me re-phrase, you're right.

why is it all of a sudden the "in-thing" to do? Thousands of years man and woman have been getting married, now they feel man and man should be?

it's not sudden, just gaining more acceptance. fifty years ago the idea wouldn't have been considered in the least. now the world is in a place where things like this might be accepted, so people are going for it. just like women's rights and racial equality, these kinds of changes are gradual and will take time. just because something has been one way for a long time doesn't mean it should be that way forever. what are the downsides to same sex marriages? do they make the union between a man and a woman any less valid? i don't think so.

ahhaha, and i said i wouldn't get into it. okay, stopping.

[Rhianna]

^What I want to know is why they let women CHOOSE who they marry. That's just crazy. I think we should go back to the way it was. I want to be able to pick my child's husband for her. And I want to marry her off to some guy 3x's her age. That's the way it should be.

Oh and Neoh, why the fuck do you even care if two people of the same sex get married?

Edit:for Neoh

[Ms.Chop]

Originally Posted by neoh

sorry, let me re-phrase, you're right.

why is it all of a sudden the "in-thing" to do? Thousands of years man and woman have been getting married, now they feel man and man should be?

becuz back in the day they were stupid and murdered homosexual's.. cuz it was wrong.. jus like they murdered blacks.. cuz they thought they were wrong..

step outta the box my friend..

why should sumone play the roll of god and say "hell.. u cant get married becuz ur the same sex" .. fuck.. if they love eachother and they wanna get married let them... is the person(s) marrying u?!... no.. so it doesnt matter to u...

wut if u were in love w/ the most beautiful women on earth (in ur eyes) and u guys were planning on getting married... and then the government told u guys u couldnt becuz u guys are a different religion??

*** its an example ***

[-ff-]

Originally Posted by neoh

sorry, let me re-phrase, you're right.

why is it all of a sudden the "in-thing" to do? Thousands of years man and woman have been getting married, now they feel man and man should be?

Why now? Because history to this point has been a series of hard fought battles for peoples rights, and every battle has built on the one that came before it. Why all of a sudden in the 17th century, after all those centuries of unlimited government power and the divine right of kings were (some) people given the right to represent themeslves in democracy? Why in the 19th century, after all those years of being plebes did all (men) gain the franchise? Why in the 20th century did women get the right to vote, workers the right to organize? why in the '60s did blacks and other minorities get civil rights? ect. Every wave of empowerment makes room for the one that comes after it. It takes time to expand peoples minds and push for progressive causes; the project of human equality is a long, long road - hell, we'll probably never get to the end. But now, in 2004, after all thse thousands of years of ignorance and discrimination on the part of heterosexuals, gay people are finally ablet to stand up and demand their rights. And they have as much right to as blacks did in the 60s, and as women did in the 20s.

[neoh]

Originally Posted by gusto

it's not sudden, just gaining more acceptance. fifty years ago the idea wouldn't have been considered in the least. now the world is in a place where things like this might be accepted, so people are going for it. just like women's rights and racial equality, these kinds of changes are gradual and will take time. just because something has been one way for a long time doesn't mean it should be that way forever. what are the downsides to same sex marriages? do they make the union between a man and a woman any less valid? i don't think so.

ahhaha, and i said i wouldn't get into it. okay, stopping.

these are all valid points, I wish I can get into it furthur but it's a argument that really can lead nowhere, it's like arguing about government and religion - no matter what people say, everyone will stick to their own viewpoints.

[Ms.Chop]

^^ it wont let me edit my post..

but i was jus refering to the "murder homosexuals, murder blacks".. as an example.. not saying they did all the time.. but it happened every so often.

[neoh]

I stirred the pot, muhaha!

[Rhianna]

This is one of those issues that makes me want to hit things and/or people.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Rhianna

This is one of those issues that makes me want to hit things and/or people.

i agree.

[neoh]

With all aspects put aside, I really have no say on what the government does with same sex marriages, I am going by the morals I grew up with. Marriage, as seen by the vast majority of married people in the world throughout history, is a religious covenant between the married couple and God. It is very likely the most profound manifestation of religion in the average person’s life. The recognition of their marriage by the state (if such recognition even obtains) is strictly secondary and rather than enhancing the relationship between the married couple often interferes with it by producing governmental red tape and increased taxation.

Since homosexuality is an issue that each person must deal with themselves (or an issue that they must deal with between themselves and their god) and is not a matter that I am concerned about at all, I would be more than happy to allow, even encourage, the state to create a contractual obligation that has all of the “benefits of marriage” (which is mostly governmental red tape and increased taxation). But to say “recognize gay marriage” instead of “create same sex unions” is misleading at the very best. There is nothing to recognize. Not in the same way that the government “recognizes” religious marriages that have thousands of years of tradition behind them. Government actually does nothing for marriage, though it does do things to marriage (taxation, etc.). In the institute of marriage government is superfluous. It has no place. It is not wanted. It forces its way into marriage for one reason: revenue.

Same sex unions are not, in themselves, threatening to me in any way though I do have a few concerns I will talk about in a moment. The idea of same sex marriage, though, seems out of reach. Marriage is a religious institution, remember, and religions cannot be made to change their beliefs. If the belief system of the religion does not include same sex marriage they will not marry gay couples. If a gay couple shares the belief system of the religion they will not support same sex marriage either. And I ask you, unless a same sex couple shares the belief system of the religion why would they want to be married under it?

It was originaly intended to be a religious covenant between a man and woman, in the witness of God, this is why we are married by a preacher, and they are the only people who could do it (at least for thousands of years, until the government said they can do it.)

[Gusto]

Some good points. But marriage can exist without religion. I'm going to get married, and I'm not religious in the least. This isn't an appeal to the church to recognize gay marriage, but an appeal to the government to let people of a certain sexuality have the same rights afforded to you and I. Sure, marriage between man and woman is a long standing tradition, but new traditions have to start somewhere.

You're right, though, this won't go anywhere. You have your opinions and I have mine. I'm a liberal-minded person and think that people should be able to do about whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't adversely affect those around them.

[Rhianna]

Originally Posted by neoh

Same sex unions are not, in themselves, threatening to me in any way though I do have a few concerns I will talk about in a moment. The idea of same sex marriage, though, seems out of reach. Marriage is a religious institution, remember, and religions cannot be made to change their beliefs. If the belief system of the religion does not include same sex marriage they will not marry gay couples. If a gay couple shares the belief system of the religion they will not support same sex marriage either. And I ask you, unless a same sex couple shares the belief system of the religion why would they want to be married under it?

Hhhmmmm.............well I don't believe in god. If i were to get married it wouldn't be about religion. Am I still allowed to get married?


You know there is a lot more to marriage than just religion right?

[sidekick]

times change...religion isn't as engraved in society as it used to be.

[-ak47-]

Originally Posted by neoh

same sex marriages shouldent be allowed, in my humble opion.

why after how many thousands of years man and wife have been married, now all of a sudden in the year 2004 they think it should happen?

don't get me started.

I feel the same way. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. The concept of gay marriage is just pissing on one of our most sacred traditions. However, a gay couple should have receive same rights, benefits and respect given to a married couple.

[neoh]

Rhianna, I know what you mean:

Originally Posted by neoh

With all aspects put aside, I really have no say on what the government does with same sex marriages, I am going by the morals I grew up with. Marriage, as seen by the vast majority of married people in the world throughout history, is a religious covenant between the married couple and God.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by neoh

same sex marriages shouldent be allowed, in my humble opion.

why after how many thousands of years man and wife have been married, now all of a sudden in the year 2004 they think it should happen?

don't get me started.

BTW, the "thousands of years" is about 2000, and the last 1000 has been pretty horrible at it.

Look at it. We've got Henry VIII who went so far to kill, accuse, and disclaim wives... even went so far as to completely overhaul his nation's religion and claim himself as a Vassal of God in order to get his ass out of marriage.

Fuck, everybody's claiming marriage as some kind of sacred vow, but we're horrible at it. Half marriages just outright fail for some reason or another. And I've seen some pretty dismal "successful" ones in which everybody's just at odds with each other, yelling at each other, treating the whole family unit like shit.

Frankly, I'd much rather be raised by two men who love each other and will reflect that love into me than a male and a female that have no respect for each other and merely stay together in a relationship because someone 2000 years ago thought that God wanted it that way.

I thought the point of marriage was love. At least that's what I keep hearing at weddings.