Ever give money to bums?

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by ~god~

well you don't go to cactus club n shit. and fuck the law.

I'd go and ask 100 foreign restaurant owners for a job. I'm sure you'd find one, where you get food in return. Thats a hella good deal for them, as they don't have to pay some prick $8 an hour to do it. food doesn't cost them shit.

Would help in certain situations, but does nothing in the long run to help the numbers of homeless people in one city alone.

If you start doing this in massive numbers, people will begin to take notice.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by acidic_liquid

Yup this is true too. Seeing a bum at a restaurant, would definitely turn most people off from eating there.

you fucking wash yourself. damn there are free showers all over the place. You don't have to look like a pornstar to scrub the floor.



besides.. you can work when the restaurant is closed. That's usually when the custodians clean the restaurants anyways.
But my point of this was that its not that hard to find a way to a meal.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by acidic_liquid

Would help in certain situations, but does nothing in the long run to help the numbers of homeless people in one city alone.

If you start doing this in massive numbers, people will begin to take notice.

huh?
I just threw out this as an example. I came up with it in less than 5 minutes.
I'm sure there are thousands of things you could do, if you put some time to think about them.

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by ~god~

you fucking wash yourself. damn there are free showers all over the place. You don't have to look like a pornstar to scrub the floor.



besides.. you can work when the restaurant is closed. That's usually when the custodians clean the restaurants anyways.
But my point of this was that its not that hard to find a way to a meal.

Point taken.

Other than really nice people though, I don't see many foreign restaurants bringing homeless people in to work for food, and staying there late at night to watch over them and make them food.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Jeaninah

You can't just feel hateful towards someone when you don't know their story.

Sure you can; people do it all the time. You can hate homeless people because you don't understand why they don't just get a job, because they're dirty/drunk/rude, or because you're afraid they might not want to help themselves. And the possibility that giving them money will validate that fear outweighs the possibilty that giving them money will save their life. I mean if we didn't hate them so much, what reason would they have to try to change anything? By being cruel or indifferent to them, were actually doing the right thing. They'll thank us when they realise they just weren't trying hard enough.

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

Sure you can; people do it all the time. You can hate homeless people because you don't understand why they don't just get a job, because they're dirty/drunk/rude, or because you're afraid they might not want to help themselves. And the possibility that giving them money will validate that fear outweighs the possibilty that giving them money will save their life. I mean if we didn't hate them so much, what reason would they have to try to change anything? By being cruel or indifferent to them, were actually doing the right thing. They'll thank us when they realise they just weren't trying hard enough.

Or they become violent and spit at you or attack you.

Which causes people to hate them more.

It's a vicious cycle.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by acidic_liquid

Point taken.

Other than really nice people though, I don't see many foreign restaurants bringing homeless people in to work for food, and staying there late at night to watch over them and make them food.

somebody has to do it.
If i had a restaurant, i'd let a homeless clean. hell, i'd provide him a place to live, in return for free work.
Some of them spend much more on this shit.

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by ~god~

somebody has to do it.
If i had a restaurant, i'd let a homeless clean. hell, i'd provide him a place to live, in return for free work.
Some of them spend much more on this shit.

I agree with you there. I think there should be more opportunities for homeless people to earn for their living other than panhandling.

[~god~]

Originally Posted by acidic_liquid

I agree with you there. I think there should be more opportunities for homeless people to earn for their living other than panhandling.

everyone has so much opportunity. The ones you see on the street are the ones that gave up too early.

[crookedking]

i'm pretty sure that i gave a bum something at one Time, but i just ignore them now.

i hate it when they ask me for shit.

[impure]

Homeless people don't choose to be on the street. They have nowhere else to go. A lot of them DON'T do drugs. If you have the time ask them how they are doing and if they would like some food. If they say Yes then by all means get them something. You'll feel so good doing it.

not true, i had a friend who CHOSE to live under a bench on davie street for a while, even though his welfare check more than payed for rent.
some, ALOT of them choose to be there.
even if it means choosing to not work.

[impure]

i know what you are saying, but when a bum puts in an effort to get change, such as dancing or one thumb push ups they will probably get more than the other guy who is sitting down.

we as people just tend to give out money to those that stand out or actually seeming to work for money somehow. and even standing somehow shows a slight effort.

well, if they're willing to put that much effort into begging, why don't they get a job?
i just don't get it.
i know some people land there by chance, but you can see bad times coming from a long way off usualy.
it's not like things are going fine and dandy, then suddenly one day !BAM! no job, no home, no family, no EI, no welfare.
i'm sure it happens occasionaly, but i think that these things can be seen coming or at least PREPARED for in advance.
always be prepared for the worst(within reason of course), right?
and i do understand that ALOT of people on the streets suffer from undiagnosed mental illnesses, or even diagnosed illnesses and they cant afford treatment. (although i do believe there are government programs that help in those cases) and for those who are living with a serious mental illness that is undiagnosed i really REALLY feel bad for and would help if i could.
but how do you determine who's there by circumstance and who's there by choice?
it's a very sticky situation.
as i always say, EVERYTHING IS CIRCUMSTANTIAL.
i do believe in CHOICE.

[Miss T]

i had one guy say to me "do you have any spare change so that i don't turn into an anorexic supermodel" and we all said no, then he's like "ok, fine it's for heroin"....haha.....i didn't have any change or else i would have given it to him just for the laugh.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by ~god~

Sure its not easy to sit and beg, but i really don't think its that hard to find a way to a decent living.

yeah, i'm sure most of the people on the street would like to stay on the street. don't you think they've tried many ways to get off the street? there are tons of barriers in the way of people getting jobs and affordable housing. why do you think the unemployment rate is what it is? government cuts to welfare spending is really hurting the poor in our society.

with how our poverty rate is climbing, i wouldn't say it's easy to find a decent living at all.

edit:

fuck, i just read over the usual "GET A JOB" sentiments toward the homeless people out there. you people are so ignorant and are acting completely high-and-mighty. it makes me sick.

of course, there are going to be some homeless people that don't want to go out and get a job or they choose to be there or they choose to do drugs...but there are also going to be homeless people who are NOT choosing to do these things. people that are actively trying to get a job and are being turned away. you can't generalize and yell 'get a job' at these people when you don't know the entire story behind why they are there and what is keeping them there.

we have to start wondering if maybe there is something structurally with society and how we deal with the homeless instead of just putting all the blame on individuals and perpetuating the stigma of the homeless crack user with no drive to make things better for themselves.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by impure

it's not like things are going fine and dandy, then suddenly one day !BAM! no job, no home, no family, no EI, no welfare.

actually, sometimes it does happen like that. lots of people are living on a paycheck to paycheck basis. which means that if they lose their job, if they can't find another job before their last paycheck runs out...that's the end of the road for them. sure, sometimes you can see bad times coming and adequately prepare for them...but for the lower class of society, most don't have this privelege. they can't save money because their jobs don't pay enough.

the cuts and restrictions put on welfare, EI, single mother insurance and other various types of social welfare in the past few years has been pretty brutal.

[wum]

don't forget that sometimes pimps ply girls with drugs and get them hooked. that's pretty shitty too

[sidekick]

i just think that most of the people here are focussing too much on the individual and the stereotypes and forgetting that a lot of social factors contribute to poverty.

generalizing about homeless people is just as bad generalizing against someone because of race, age, or sexual orientation.

[Two_Six]

I beleive everybody can change with a little help, even in the worst situations possible. My neighbour was such a big time alcoholic that he blew all his money on booze and eventually his wife kicked him out and he lived on the streets for 3 years. Then one christmas his wife went to look for him cause she felt so sorry for him and when she found him, he was so happy to see here and she said if he doesn't quit drinking then he has to leave and he said he would qiut and he did, he even quit smoking.

Now, he owns a huge house, has 2 cars, is a well respected social worker and runs a community program to help people deal with substance and alcohol abuse. He also help's dissabled people and he's the nicest person I have ever met.

So, I think with just a little help everyone can change. Plus the bums that beg for money earn good pocket change. Some get welfare cheques and still make $20+ a day pan handling. They just chose to live on the street.

[sidekick]

i agree that with help most people are going to be able to get themselves out of a poverty-like situation. however, the thing is, the 'help' for these people is coming mostly from our government in the form of welfare programs which have received severe cuts in the past few years.

so, the help these people need to get on their feet, isn't there in the form it used to be.

the thing about the situation you described is that this person didn't start out in poverty. being poor is a pretty vicious cycle that keeps itself going: you can't afford to go to school so you take a low-wage paying job, but you can't get a better job without a better education...and you can't obtain that education because you can't live without going to work fulltime.

also much of this fulltime work still leaves many people living below the poverty line and unable to support themselves without some sort of assistance. and since applying for this type of assistance is harder and harder these days, some of these people (who have jobs) end up homeless because their jobs aren't paying enough to meet their living requirements.

[wum]

In Sweden there's a temp agency that's the second largest employer in the country. i think our government should do the same, but there's too much bureaucracy with that because they'll need medical, dental, etc. coverage.

[ppcock]

I used to.. then i move downtown.

Now i say something clever, straight up no (not even a sorry no), or i just dont answer

most of the time its the third because i cant hear the outside world on my headphones.

[miss.myra]

I think that in a lot of my experiences in volunteering in a soup kitchen in the downtown eastside for years in highschool I being a spolied brat from the suburbs learned that homelessness is not so black and white.

I just wanted to make a few points.

One that should certainly be noted is that a large percentage of the homeless population is mentally ill without any kind of treatment whatsoever.

If getting back on your feet was just a matter of getting a 'little help' then wouldn't a lot more people be doing it? It takes a lot more than just a 'little help'. Aid for these people in areas of mental health, gaining employment, fighting adiction is spread extremely thin so that all these people CAN get is only a little help and unfortunately, it's not enough.

[wum]

i think the main problem is drug addiction. In the US it's the CIA that runs shit, i wonder which arm of the government runs it here .

[lou_belle]

wow, I love an interesting debate. thanx sidekick for kickin' it up a notch, I love it;P

there will always be poor people, bums, and bentleys all on the same street as long as we live in a liberal country:) the guy in the bentley could be having the roughest day of his life...but you don't know that because he isn't crying it out loud, spreading his sorrows to everyone that walks by him. the guy in the bentley has paid $75 000 in taxes this year alone. that's what I love about the people who work, they give and take in a respectable silent manner . As for the beggars...it's the lowest of the low...like I mean...dude you would never catch me asking hardworking people for more money than what the welfare system has to offer. that's what normal people do, they go on welfare and shut up.

[wum]

oh ya! why aren't they on welfare?