Terri Schiavo died today

[wum]

Originally posted by Nev

Perhaps Michael wanted her last moments to be spent in quiet and peace, instead of the incessant arguing that would have probably taken place had he let her parents in the room.

Nurse recalls Schiavo asking, 'When is that bitch gonna die?'

Carla Sauer Iyer was a Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN) at the same convalescent center in the mid 1990s, and also cared for Terri. She described Mr. Schiavo as being "focused on Terri's death.

"Michael [Schiavo] would say, 'When is she going to die? Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch going to die?'" Iyer charged. "Other statements which I recall him making include, 'Can't anything be done to accelerate her death, won't she ever die?' When she wouldn't die, Michael [Schiavo] would be furious."

Conversely, Iyer said that when she would have to call Schiavo to inform him of a downturn in Terri's condition, Schiavo would be elated.

"Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die," Iyer recalled. "He would blurt out, 'I'm going to be rich,' and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat and going to Europe, among other things."

[LLaaUUrrYYn]

"Michael [Schiavo] would say, 'When is she going to die? Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch going to die?'" Iyer charged. "Other statements which I recall him making include, 'Can't anything be done to accelerate her death, won't she ever die?' When she wouldn't die, Michael [Schiavo] would be furious."
Conversely, Iyer said that when she would have to call Schiavo to inform him of a downturn in Terri's condition, Schiavo would be elated.
"Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die," Iyer recalled. "He would blurt out, 'I'm going to be rich,' and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat and going to Europe, among other things."

I cant imagine the man would be that bloody stupid. That is false.

[veN]

Originally Posted by wum

Originally posted by Nev

Perhaps Michael wanted her last moments to be spent in quiet and peace, instead of the incessant arguing that would have probably taken place had he let her parents in the room.

Nurse recalls Schiavo asking, 'When is that bitch gonna die?'

How do you really know what to believe? Really... I think everyone has gotten caught up in the "media circus" surrounding her G-tube(?) being removed so as not to continue her life in a "vegetative state". You have to consider, how credible is this source? Perhaps the nurse disagrees with Michael's decision and wanted to make him out to be an evil man with malicious intentions. Or perhaps she didn't even really say anything at all.

I have chosen not to follow the story very closely for that very reason - Who can you trust? The media is very biased.

[LLaaUUrrYYn]

Originally Posted by Nev

How do you really know what to believe? Really... I think everyone has gotten caught up in the "media circus" surrounding her G-tube(?) being removed so as not to continue her life in a "vegetative state". You have to consider, how credible is this source? Perhaps the nurse disagrees with Michael's decision and wanted to make him out to be an evil man with malicious intentions. Or perhaps she didn't even really say anything at all.

I have chosen not to follow the story very closely for that very reason - Who can you trust? The media is very biased.

Exactly. There is just WAY to much controversy going on. Its driving me crazy.

[wum]

Possible beating

The report of a total-body bone scan done on Terri Schindler-Schiavo, while she was in a rehabilitation facility following the collapse that led to her brain damage, describes what are known as "hot spots" suggestive of multiple fractures. In the words of an unnamed physician who reviewed the report: "Somebody worked her over real good."

According to the motion, medical records show that Terri has never been evaluated or treated by an orthopedic surgeon for the multiple injuries revealed in the bone scan, which may have a profound bearing on her current medical condition.

[veN]

Originally Posted by wum

Possible beating

^ I understand that there are lots of quotes that you can pull from anywhere, but until I bother to sit down and read everything, interview-interrogate her family, friends, husband and medical staff treating and not treating her, and actually speak to her herself (which obviously I'm not going to do any of) I'm not buying into ANY of it.

All I have are my beliefs (which is all anyone has), which are that Living Wills and DNRs are credible, valuable tools for directing one's life and death when they are no longer capable of doing so themselves. Of course it's not really just as simple as that - nothing is - But I do have a fair bit of experience being involved in the lives of children and adults who have disabilities and/or illnesses that make them medically fragile.

And EVERY person is different, so you won't get an argument or "debate" to develop from me. Admittedly, I don't know about her enough PERSONALLY to pass judgement. And neither do you or anyone else on this board.

[wum]

admittedly, i have a different paradigm than everyone else.

Maybe you should listen to the Alex Jones show :)

[veN]

^ Well yes, you are different. Most everyone is in some sense. I really meant to say that every "case" of DNR + Living Wills is different, but didn't want to be insensative to those that embodies, so I said "person". :)

[lou_belle]

Was Terri Shiavo a bitch?

[CodaDrummer]

As if the media hadn't beat this to fucking death already...

[bungoshlung]

In the words of an unnamed physician

haha.. thats credibility

[lithe]

right wing doctors say one thing. left wing doctors say another. the debate here is whether life, regardless of quality, is worth preserving. that is such a deeply embedded moral and religious issue that no one's mind is going to be changed by the media hype surrounding a woman-cum-vegetable's starvation, or the forum discussions arising around it.

i do, however, find it funny that those who fought the hardest for her continued assisted life were those who typically fall in the idealogical camp of Christianity and God/heaven. wouldn't heaven be preferable to lying unconscious for decades in a hospital bed? and for those who would argue that it is not our place to decide when someone has the right to die (God's will etc), by that same argument shouldn't we not have the right to unnaturally prolong someone's life through such complicated medical apparatus?

the G.A.P protestors are up at ubc this week. :| (they're the pro-lifers who liken abortion to genocide, and compare aborted foetuses with the corpses of children in rwanda.)

[wum]

Originally Posted by lithe

right wing doctors say one thing. left wing doctors say another. the debate here is whether life, regardless of quality, is worth preserving. that is such a deeply embedded moral and religious issue that no one's mind is going to be changed by the media hype surrounding a woman-cum-vegetable's starvation, or the forum discussions arising around it.

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)

FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:

Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.

(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

Originally Posted by lithe

i do, however, find it funny that those who fought the hardest for her continued assisted life were those who typically fall in the idealogical camp of Christianity and God/heaven. wouldn't heaven be preferable to lying unconscious for decades in a hospital bed?

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

(i.e. not your life to take)

Originally Posted by lithe

and for those who would argue that it is not our place to decide when someone has the right to die (God's will etc), by that same argument shouldn't we not have the right to unnaturally prolong someone's life through such complicated medical apparatus?

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Originally Posted by lithe

the G.A.P protestors are up at ubc this week. :| (they're the pro-lifers who liken abortion to genocide, and compare aborted foetuses with the corpses of children in rwanda.)

well... obvious disagreement there. :p

[Silverwinged]

Originally Posted by Liam

I think what bothers me is that they have no problem giving a serial killer a quick, easy death...

completely agree.
Lethal injection takes what? Under a 45 seconds until you are rendered unconscious and your body begins to shut down?

The fact is, her death was slow, grusome to an extent, and more than likely painful at some stages.
Against her wishes.
Which brings the questions: Why did other people have say in her final months of life? Why were her last wishes not respected or honored? She was a grown adult, in control of HER life.
Why are we led to believe we make our own decisions, only to have them disobeyed as soon as we are uncapable of defending them?

[acidic_liquid]

Originally Posted by lithe

the G.A.P protestors are up at ubc this week. :| (they're the pro-lifers who liken abortion to genocide, and compare aborted foetuses with the corpses of children in rwanda.)

Omg. They were at SFU a few weeks ago. I fucking hated them. I can't believe they've sunken so low as to put those graphic, gross pictures and compare them with totally unrelated things, and calling it the "new romantic choice." It disgusts me.

I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard that most of the pro-lifers protesting are male. How can they even know what goes through a woman's mind?

BLAH

[impure]

on the topic of protestors we got caught behind some anti bush protestors in seattle a few weeks ago.
it was awesome to see SO MANY people that passionate about their government.

[diva]

Originally Posted by impure

on the topic of protestors we got caught behind some anti bush protestors in seattle a few weeks ago.
it was awesome to see SO MANY people that passionate about their government.

i'm going to say this because she has me on her ignore list anyways:
it's so funny that she acuses me of taking things too personally when i get passionate about wum's offensive posts, but it's "awesome to see SO MANY people" getting passionate about their governement?

*rolls eyes*

[LLaaUUrrYYn]

Originally Posted by diva

i'm going to say this because she has me on her ignore list anyways:
it's so funny that she acuses me of taking things too personally when i get passionate about wum's offensive posts, but it's "awesome to see SO MANY people" getting passionate about their governement?

*rolls eyes*

Your situations are different. Her post didnt imply that she was passionate about how the a crowd of people in seattle. They were passionate and she enjoyed that. As for your war against Wum, I dont think it needs to invade every thread. I do agree with you on the fact that he might go overboard and if he does infact make you feel singled out and upset, then you are best to ignore/avoid him. You just seem to be picking fights all over the place.

[automatic]

i'm so glad that terri schiavo is finally at peace, and let's hope that some good comes out of this such as a boom in "living will documents" resulting from the intense media coverage, and hopefully not another repeat of a case like this...

now...i'd just like to say...

wum...

maybe michael schiavo did say "when is that bitch going to die?" so what? this has been an extremely stressful situation for everyone involved that has dragged on for years. it wouldn't surprise me if he's had some moments of extreme frustration and depression. i've had a few people close to me die slow lingering deaths, and there were points where i felt extremely guilty about thoughts that it'd be easier on everyone involved if they just passed. anger, frustration, feelings of powerlessness, and depression are always going to be tied up in a process like this. so maybe he did say those things, but without actually being there you still don't know if he truly believes he had his wife's wishes at heart. it's irresponsibe to take remarks out of context like this and think they "prove" anything. it may reflect poorly on him, but it doesn't mean anything in a deeper sense, and certainly doesn't prove anything.

and he's called for a full autopsy, which would seem to me to be a stupid move if he's abused her in the manner you describe.

finally, if you ignore the doctors appointed by terri's parents and those appointed by michael, you find that some independent state appointed doctor's had said "pvs", some hadn't. the argument around this will go on for years, but bottom line is that she was diagnosed as pvs and non-pvs at different times by different independent doctors. the websites you quote from so much are pretty biased, (terrisfight.org....yeah, i'm sure they've got an interest in presenting both sides of the story, huh?), so don't expect to find anything from the doctor's who thought she was pvs quoted on there.

anyways...

at that point it would be up to michael schiavo to decide, as her legal guardian what to do. despite numerous challenges the courts refused to revoke his guardianship. as far as i know at no point was any concrete evidence of spousal abuse ever introduced into these proceedings.

his story is that he decided that based on what his wife had said to him about it previously that she'd want the plug pulled in a situation like the one she found herself in. i've yet to see any credible unbiased source find any evidence that he was motivated by anything other than a desire to carry out his wife's wishes. it really boils down to that, if you can wade through the incredible hype and emotion surrounding this case.

rest in peace

[automatic]

^actually, i've just read that an autopsy is required by florida law, so disregard my previous comments regarding him calling for one and let's just see if any abuse shows up. broken bones from childhood still reveal themselves on an autopsy, so if she was abused in the horrific way alleged we should know in a day or two.

[LLaaUUrrYYn]

Thanks for the bad karma Diva. You like to express your opinion but god forbid anyone else does eh. ;D

[wum]

Originally Posted by automatic

^actually, i've just read that an autopsy is required by florida law, so disregard my previous comments regarding him calling for one and let's just see if any abuse shows up. broken bones from childhood still reveal themselves on an autopsy, so if she was abused in the horrific way alleged we should know in a day or two.

bone fractures tend to heal after 15 years

[diva]

^ anytime

i didn't give you bad karma for your opinion, btw
edit: and i will admit that i let wum get the best of me, but he's on my ignore list now, so it's all good
=)

[impure]

Originally Posted by LLaaUUrrYYn

Thanks for the bad karma Diva. You like to express your opinion but god forbid anyone else does eh. ;D

you didn't agree with her
BAD KARMA FOR YOU.

[automatic]

Originally Posted by wum

bone fractures tend to heal after 15 years

yes, the fractures themselves are completely healed in terms of functionality, but evidence of bone fractures from childhood are still visible as an adult. the fracture may be healed, but the spot where it took place is still recognizable. it think it's got to do with rate of cell growth in a healing fracture versus rate of cell growth normally. faster growth equals larger bone cells than surrounding areas, and that never changes over your lefetime.