So it's official... WW3 has started.

[The Preacher]

Two days before our Saviour's birthday :(

[decypher]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Education is the key. That and self-sustainable communities. If more people put the effort into managing their own power sources, and having a community or themselves to rely on local produce, the demand would increase. With the increase in demand, future generations would find it alot more simple as the industry to self-sustainablitiy grows.

I feel the same way. There's actually a large sustainability movement in Vancouver. The urbanization numbers over the next 20 years are insane.

On note of the original topic of this thread, the situations in Iraq and Iran have been able to fester due to economic sanctions that impoverish the people while strengthening a tyrannical regime's control. Same with the bombing in Lebenon, it all works to play into the hands of militants.

If America wants to prevent nuclear proliferation in Iran maybe they should honor a 1995 NPT review agreement to put Israel's nukes under IAEA inspection and stop excluding themselves from every multi-lateral agreement there is. The NPT has become an "American foreign policy tool" and is completely useless now because of their assertion as unilateral power exempt of all agreements.

[hardstylin]

freedom will only be available threw death
freedom will only be available threw death
freedom will only be available threw death
freedom will only be available threw death

praise the lord, god wants you to go to war!

[Jonny Dubbs]

Originally Posted by projectone

In a perfect world, or just one without Bush and the U.S., maybe!

heh, you should do some research and see how much influence Israel has in Canada.

As far as there ever being a draft in Canada, do people here think that is a posibilty?

[Grapes]

Nothing's ever "impossible", but there would have to be a war with overwhelming support behind it to allow a Prime Minister to institute a draft and not get voted out of office.

Hell, Harper is getting (quite rightly) raked over the coals right now just for the language he used regarding Israel's response to the kidnappings.

How many levels above something like that is a draft? A million?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Grapes

Nothing's ever "impossible", but there would have to be a war with overwhelming support behind it to allow a Prime Minister to institute a draft and not get voted out of office.

Hell, Harper is getting (quite rightly) raked over the coals right now just for the language he used regarding Israel's response to the kidnappings.

How many levels above something like that is a draft? A million?

When Armageddon starts the prisoners in jail in the us will be drafted.

Something gets blown up in Canada there'd be a draft in a second.

We'll all be goin to die for Zion.

Damn Matrix.

[Grapes]

Something blowing up in Canada would probably go a long way towards gaining that "overwhelming support" status I was talking about.

Even then I have a hard time imagining a draft..

But then, I'm anticipating a lot of things I currently have trouble imagining to come about in the next few years.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Grapes

Something blowing up in Canada would probably go a long way towards gaining that "overwhelming support" status I was talking about.

Even then I have a hard time imagining a draft..

But then, I'm anticipating a lot of things I currently have trouble imagining to come about in the next few years.

Hopefully it gets better. Hopefully.

[Goat]

BUT I still live in an imperialist country, and therefore I will always be conscious of the fact that my existance may in fact oppress someone else, hence WHY i contribute to the struggle.

This quote got me around to my original question - Name me three countries that don't shit in anyone elses apple pie.
I'm under the impression that you believe there's some sort of idealistic eutopia-like governing system out there that doesn't shit on anyone elses applie pie.

So...3 countries?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Goat

This quote got me around to my original question - Name me three countries that don't shit in anyone elses apple pie.
I'm under the impression that you believe there's some sort of idealistic eutopia-like governing system out there that doesn't shit on anyone elses applie pie.

So...3 countries?

Norway Sweden Finland.

[DJ Ponz]

Worth Skimming
Particularly its association with conspiracism.

Critics of the concept argue that it serves to equate legitimate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, and that it is sometimes used to silence debate

That's probably true.

[djmarkpaul]

The delivery of at least 100 GBU 28 bunker busters bombs containing
depleted uranium warheads by the United States to Israel for use against
targets in Lebanon will result in additional radioactive and chemical toxic
contamination with consequent adverse health and environmental effects
throughout the middle east.

Israeli military has said it will destroy 10 buildings in predominantly
Shia south Beirut for every rocket fired at the Israeli port of Haifa, army
radio said Monday.

Lebanon's president accused Israel on Monday of using phosphorous bombs in
its 13-day offensive and urged the United Nations to demand an immediate
ceasefire. [A note to readers: This news report, originally aired on CNN
International, contains graphic images.]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VI...orus_0724.html


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=2807

[r a m a z e]

lucky everyone likes canada.

[-evil-duerr-]

everybody used to love canada... then there was nickelback.


were fuckin doomed

[miss.myra]

This is not world war 3. This is a limited, contained war within Lebanon. What both sides want out of this conflict seem modest enough, nothing comparable with the demands of other nations in the two world wars.

While armed conflict is a terrible terrible thing, I know that this has happened between these two sides before and it may take weeks, but it will simmer down. It's really another episode in one that has been happening for years i the arab-israeli conflict.


In fact, I think we should be far more concerned about Ethiopian forces entering Somalia. Right now it doesn't seem like much and it's not getting much news attention, but I think that actually has more of a chance into escalating into something involving several nations far far more than what is happening in the middle east.



When you think about it you can only really call it a world war happening right now because there is fighting all over the world, but it's a bunch of different sides fighting. But when in recent history (the last 1000 years or so) hasn't that been the case?

[decypher]

That's an interesting point you bring up about Somalia. The muslims clerics in Mogadishu said to prepare for a war. Relations between the countries have not been good in the past and the divisions in Somalia are going to make a very difficult situation.

I recently read a great article about the Archbishop in Algeria. His diocese has seen a large rollback in followers as Islam spreads amoung the population. He goes into the history and shows the changes Algeria has gone through under imperialism. It's interesting to see the rise and shift of different ideologies as the political landscape changes in these regions. I believe imperial nations should have some responsibility in what their past actions have done to modern unpoverished countries in Africa and in the middle east.

[djmarkpaul]

Some good points Myra, but I am only going to tackle this one as it's the most pressing of the lot IMO.

Originally Posted by miss.myra

When you think about it you can only really call it a world war happening right now because there is fighting all over the world, but it's a bunch of different sides fighting. But when in recent history (the last 1000 years or so) hasn't that been the case?

It has. The difference is that traditionally the warring was more compartmentalized. However, now we are in the age of international terrorism.

You know just a few days ago an Isreali general said that anyone who opposes Isreal is a terrorist.

We've been told soon after 9/11 from Bush that "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists".

This new enemy is invisible (if we don't know where to look). As a result, the whole world is meant to freely exchange liberties for security in this new age. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said, "those who give up an essential liberty for security deserve neither."

That is what has come. Urban living has domesticated us.

It's a global conflict, one where the rules of engagement are stunningly hypocritical and ever encroaching.

None of the imperialist powers give a fuck about human integrity, morality... the geneva convention is plainly ignored as we are dealing with pre-emptive genocide and loop holes and red tape that allow us to use chemical warfare and have the gull to say it's not so.

We are surrounded by neo-cons and double speak, and the technologies that exist now are so advanced that they call for an end game in this seemingly endless stalemate of chess.

Urban warfare, cerfews, tagging and monitoring the populace, this is the new paradigm.

Go get your retina eye scan or electronic thumbscan next time you decide to travel in a slue of international airports, and know that big brother is watching you.

We either move away from our cancerish lifestyle of urban living, or we will become eventually something like the borg, if we don't kill ourselves or the planet in the process.


Yet against all these odds, I remain optimistic, because when you look at it, the pioneering spirit is easier to accomplish than it's ever been (with water engines, geodesic domes http://www.aidomes.com and local produce, we have a chance to "unplug" from the matrix).

[Atlantis77]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8434D68F39.htm

hahaha

"The US government on Wednesday defended Israel, saying that although the attack was "horrible" there was no indication that the post had been targeted."

wow wut a shock!

[Atlantis77]

and in regards to what myra brought up

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...639F0383D1.htm

" Another country went unnamed, but was widely believed to be the United States. " hmmm . . .

[fable]

This is not world war 3. This is a limited, contained war within Lebanon.

>How long has Israel been oppressing Palestine?
>How long has the US (Israel’s closest friend outside of Canada) been at war with Iraq
>How long has the UK, US AND Canada been at war in Afghanistan?
>Why is the US pulling out all US citizens out of Syria?
>Why has the US/Israel been at the brink of all out invasion of Iran since way back when the Shah was booted out?

All of these are connected, and therefore the current impact of the war in Lebanon draws connection to imperialist invasion waged far before, and will be connected to imperialist occupation when Lebanon is a smoking, wasted, ghost nation

What both sides want out of this conflict seem modest enough, nothing comparable with the demands of other nations in the two world wars.

>War is not indicative of "Modesty" War happens when diplomacy has broken down, or one country is unwilling to bow down to another aggressive/imperial/corrupt national administration. This is NOT and never was about a few soldiers.

While armed conflict is a terrible terrible thing, I know that this has happened between these two sides before and it may take weeks, but it will simmer down. It's really another episode in one that has been happening for years i the arab-israeli conflict.

>It may simmer down for a week or two, but have we seen a simmering down in the Middle East as a whole since 2001?

In fact, I think we should be far more concerned about Ethiopian forces entering Somalia. Right now it doesn't seem like much and it's not getting much news attention, but I think that actually has more of a chance into escalating into something involving several nations far far more than what is happening in the middle east.

>This situation is not doubt extremely serious. But in terms of International impact, the wars across the Middle East are far more obviously about imperialism. One doesn’t need to research deep to know why an Islamist leader or movement is rising up in East/North Africa. And therefore one doesn’t really need to research deep into why the US, and UK have denounced Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys and his militias.

When you think about it you can only really call it a world war happening right now because there is fighting all over the world, but it's a bunch of different sides fighting. But when in recent history (the last 1000 years or so) hasn't that been the case?

>"A bunch of different sides fighting" is based on historic fallacy. Any lack of ability or willingness to draw connections between conflicts across the world is what keeps divisions between similar resistances, with similar ideologies unite together, and exactly what western governments, and western mainstream media want us to believe and propagate. Because ultimately if citizens across the world started thinking in terms of Internationalism, and International solidarity, then the resulting collective movements/forces would increase in strength exponentially.

>Internationalism or international solidarity is what Malcolm X talked about, Che Guevera talked about, Nelson Mandela talked about, what Patrice Lumumba talked about, Yasur Arafat talked about, what Leon Trotsky talked about, what Hugo Chavez IS talking about, what Eva Morales IS talking about, what Fidel Castro HAS been talking about!

>What will amount in Africa could just as easily mean another serious of massacres. And one of our collective worlds greatest shames will be how we all ignored Africa for so fucking long. But your differentiation and value judgements could spell even more division then there already is.

>Perhaps your words where trying to curb the alarmist nature of this thread, what I don’t understand is why? Israel is doing to Hezbollah, what they have been doing to Hamas for sometime now. Forcing them to their knees before coming back to "negotiating"

the following is the final letter that Patrice Lumumba wrote and I feel it holds relevent significance

My dear companion,

I write you these words without knowing if they will reach you, when they will reach you, or if I will still be living when you read them. All during the length of my fight for the independence of my country, I have never doubted for a single instant the final triumph of the sacred cause to which my companions and myself have consecrated our lives. But what we wish for our country, its right to an honorable life, to a spotless dignity, to an independence without restrictions, Belgian colonialism and its Western allies-who have found direct and indirect support, deliberate and not deliberate among certain high officials of the United Nations, this organization in which we placed all our confidence when we called for their assistance-have not wished it.

They have corrupted certain of our fellow countrymen, they have contributed to distorting the truth and our enemies, that they will rise up like a single person to say no to a degrading and shameful colonialism and to reassume their dignity under a pure sun.

We are not alone. Africa, Asia, and free and liberated people from every corner of the world will always be found at the side of the Congolese. They will not abandon the light until the day comes when there are no more colonizers and their mercenaries in our country. To my children whom I leave and whom perhaps I will see no more, I wish that they be told that the future of the Congo is beautiful and that it expects for each Congolese, to accomplish the sacred task of reconstruction of our independence and our sovereignty; for without dignity there is no liberty, without justice there is no dignity, and without independence there are no free men.

No brutality, mistreatment, or torture has ever forced me to ask for grace, for I prefer to die with my head high, my faith steadfast, and my confidence profound in the destiny of my country, rather than to live in submission and scorn of sacred principles. History will one day have its say, but it will not be the history that Brussels, Paris, Washington or the United Nations will teach, but that which they will teach in the countries emancipated from colonialism and its puppets. Africa will write its own history, and it will be, to the north and to the south of the Sahara, a history of glory and dignity.

Do not weep for me, my dear companion. I know that my country, which suffers so much, will know how to defend its independence and its liberty. Long live the Congo! Long live Africa!

Patrice

ez