Does anyone here produce hiphop? I have a few questions

Are there any hiphop producers here on FNK? Think I came across one by the name of Goodfellow (or something..) who had some decent stuff -anyone else? I'm starting to get into the instrumental stuff more and more. Looking for artists to add to msn etc to bounce ideas and ask hiphop production-related questions.

I've done a few tunes, but they all seem to lack that underground hiphop vibe.

What kind of plugs are you guys using (VST and VSTi)?

What are some of the best breaks to sample?

How do you quantize your drums/samples?

What are some good sources of samples for all of those rhodes/piano/string riffs?

PS. I tried some "lofi" plugs for downsampling drums =sickness!!! :love1:(I'll post the break I made tonight when I get home from work) . I also played around with Izotope Vinyl for adding "old record" effects like scratches and pops which helped a bit.

[dj_soo]

Best thing to get that older school, undeground vibe for break sampling is to go to your local used store and just dig through the funk section. There are a ton of the "famous" breaks like Funky Drummer, Think, Mardi Gras, Nautilous, Apache, Amen, or Champ - but there's something about finding a old break that may rarely or even never been used.

As for quatization, i use ableton right now (i'm still new to the production game tho)

Ahh ok so there a lot of breaks with dnb/hiphop crossover appeal. I'm familiar with the ones you mentioned. I also like BFD for making breaks from scratch, or for layering single hits. Tried it?

I think I might have asked the quantization question in a confusing way.. I'll rephrase: Hiphop seems to have a really loose feel to it.. drums are a bit sloppy (timing-wise... in a good way). When you make hiphop is it better to keep the "snap to grid" feature off when drawing in your notes?

Ableton eh? I hear good things about it. Do you have any tunes online?

[mapleleaf4ever]

Seguin does some Hip Hop Production... hit him up with a PM. :)

Originally Posted by mapleleaf4ever

Seguin does some Hip Hop Production... hit him up with a PM. :)

Thanks! will do

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by Junglist

Ahh ok so there a lot of breaks with dnb/hiphop crossover appeal. I'm familiar with the ones you mentioned. I also like BFD for making breaks from scratch, or for layering single hits. Tried it?

I think I might have asked the quantization question in a confusing way.. I'll rephrase: Hiphop seems to have a really loose feel to it.. drums are a bit sloppy (timing-wise... in a good way). When you make hiphop is it better to keep the "snap to grid" feature off when drawing in your notes?

Ableton eh? I hear good things about it. Do you have any tunes online?

Again, i'm new to the whole thing but i'd venture to guess that the beats you're thinking of are more of an old-school style where they didn't bother with quatizing much and just looped the breaks through a sampler which gives it the more funky, "live-sound" feel (and is also a bitch to mix) .

Originally Posted by dj_soo

Again, i'm new to the whole thing but i'd venture to guess that the beats you're thinking of are more of an old-school style where they didn't bother with quatizing much and just looped the breaks through a sampler which gives it the more funky, "live-sound" feel (and is also a bitch to mix) .

So [from a listener/dj standpoint] is this oldskool style generally avoided/disliked nowadays? A lot of stuff I hear has a really lofi sound (<16 bit sampling, due to old sampler technology). Is this a desired sound or has the new era of hiphop become much more technical in terms of production?

[-evil-duerr-]

i do triphop/glitch hop .

your gonna need to start building up your soundbank, of things like orchestral hits, various instrumental one shots etc.

for the oldschool sound, like soo said, dig through old funk tunes.
Check out all the funk soundbank sample discs that are out there as well.

Also start digging through old jazz, soul and swing records. Or obtain the samples ( trumpets, sax etc.) that you'd typically find on these jazz,soul records. Alot of oldschool hip hop is produced with a very jazzy feel to it,
ie Jay Dilla, The Umma, Premier.

also when sequencing drums, i find it helpful to turn the "snap to grid" off.
often times the grid feature can make your beat sound overly robotic. Turnin it off gives you more freedom for a more loose, human feel.


For basslines and other buisiness, I recommend getting comfortable with soft synthesizers.
Dont get me wrong there are some real nice sample banks with bass sounds you could work with that way. But once you know how to create your own viea synthesis, you've got so much more flexibility to establish your own sound.

[dj_soo]

from a listener standpoint, i don't care whether it's lofi, hifi, quantized or not - if it sounds good, it sounds good. Personally, i prefer the old school sound myself - i find many of the tracks just better produced with more layers than the minimal over-produced sound of modern (mainstream) hiphop.

As a dj, i don't really care either. Obviously, as a dj, it's easier to do long blends with quantized tracks, but as most hiphop djs tend to focus on shorter mixes and quick cuts, it's a little moot. Besides, i personally have no problems mixing with unquantized tracks - it's a little harder and requires more concentration, but i like the challenge.

Myself, I still really dig the old - sample-heavy productions in the early-mid 90s (hiphop's "golden" era) - just some amazing intrumentals being made at that time before sample laws reigned in the creativity and producers started turning more to the sterile produced beats from drum machines (not to say it isn't good, but it doesn't have the same feel as the older school records).

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

For basslines and other buisiness, I recommend getting comfortable with soft synthesizers.
Dont get me wrong there are some real nice sample banks with bass sounds you could work with that way. But once you know how to create your own viea synthesis, you've got so much more flexibility to establish your own sound.

Most of the hip hop I've heard sticks to a simple sinewave sub or an 808 bassdrum. Triphop is a different story... and glitch-hop.. never heard about it but it sounds interesting! Can I hear some of your "glitchhop"?

[dj_soo]

to add to what evil duer is saying, don't limit yourself to classic breaks or samples or even to funk samples. There's a ton of music out there much of it with killer drum breaks, basslines, and riffs ripe for the plundering. I've found wicked breaks in jazz albums, rock albums, random j-pop albums, 50s soul, whatever you can get your hands on.

Honestly, what i think sets apart some of my favorite hiphop producers from just about everyone else are those guys (i'm talking people like shadow, cut chemist, premiere, automator, prince paul, marley marl, etc.) are true hiphop djs. By that I mean they lived the culture and understand music so well through digging for records - unlike many of the spoon-fed, new-school, CDJ-toting djs of today, there's a real sense that half their breaks and samples were found in some dusty crate in a small town somewhere that you would never find on mp3 or sample bank. Almost adds another level of soul to an industry that is based mainly on electronics, computers, and other people's music.

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by Junglist

Most of the hip hop I've heard sticks to a simple sinewave sub or an 808 bassdrum. Triphop is a different story... and glitch-hop.. never heard about it but it sounds interesting! Can I hear some of your "glitchhop"?

chek yer pm's

[Goodfellow]

yeah I guess everyone has pretty much covered it

try searching for piano tributes and stuff. I got a whole album "pink floyd : piano tribute " nothin but piano and just sampled outta there you can make some pretty sick stuff. if you want a real fresh vibe chop up your samples into little chunks and try arranging them closely and what not. I find it better to take audio samples of real snares and kicks, run them through the compressor etc instead of just usin the vst drums.

always put some kinda effect/filter on the samples you're usin to make em sound your own, and try to mix real instrument samples with synth. when you do all synth it doesnt sound quite as good.

www.myspace.com/mcgoodfella14 is mine you may already know that

Honestly, what i think sets apart some of my favorite hiphop producers from just about everyone else are those guys (i'm talking people like shadow, cut chemist, premiere, automator, prince paul, marley marl, etc.) are true hiphop djs. By that I mean they lived the culture and understand music so well through digging for records - unlike many of the spoon-fed, new-school, CDJ-toting djs of today, there's a real sense that half their breaks and samples were found in some dusty crate in a small town somewhere that you would never find on mp3 or sample bank. Almost adds another level of soul to an industry that is based mainly on electronics, computers, and other people's music.

Yes. I can totally relate to what you're saying. In the dnb world, it reminds me of High Contrast; the guy grew up listening to 70's funk and by listening to his music, you can sense that extra element of soul that a lot of dnb lacks. He's a sample digger too, which is quite evident by listening to his tracks. Not to discredit the techy/nerdy stuff completely because its pretty awesome too. but yea, I know what you mean. Do you think hiphop can surivive without that element of soul? maybe thats where this whole glitch hop thing comes in?

[dj_soo]

honestly, "glitch hop" (which i like) is probably closer to idm than hiphop imho. It's good stuff, but i think the production and beats sound less like hiphop and more like heady downtempo...

I don't mean to downplay pure technical production chops either (it's a serious talent to do that stuff), but while i realize that guys like neptunes and timbaland have incredible studio skills, i'd still pick an old Prince Paul or Marly Marl beat to a slick new Farrell Williams beat (if i was forced to choose that is).

Most hiphop will always have at least some soul i think simply because nowadays, it's a vocal-based genre and that just adds some human warmth to the genre. But where the beats used to excel the most was the use of old samples and breaks which gives the pure instrumentals much more of a "live" feel than a lot of the more drum-machine oriented beats out there.

[quote=Goodfellow;1697400]
try searching for piano tributes and stuff. I got a whole album "pink floyd : piano tribute " nothin but piano and just sampled outta there you can make some pretty sick stuff. if you want a real fresh vibe chop up your samples into little chunks and try arranging them closely and what not. I find it better to take audio samples of real snares and kicks, run them through the compressor etc instead of just usin the vst drums. /quote]

Hey! that pink floyd cd sounds like a goldmine! thx!

Im guessing that you're a big fan of recycle for slicing?

Yea I've heard your tunes before, I like them because they're coherent and musical even without vocals overtop.


Here's something that I made almost a year ago:

http://diversedev.com/music/Justin_T...n_Todd_Rmx.mp3

kind of what you mentioned.. real samples + synthesis

[Goodfellow]

Im just dying to get vocals over my stuff ^ ... I have a full CD of choruses and verses waitin to go, I just haven't gotten around to setting up my soundcard properly it didn't install right. now cubase doesn't recognize anything im plugging in , mic/keyboard

I heard about this free studio in VIC somewhere, I'm gunna have to investigate.

[Bevvy Swift]

to get the loose feel you need, add mild latency to you drums by using a simple delay. adjust the wet/dry mix to 100, so you cant hear the drums that are exactly on beat. voila. human sounding shit.

you could also make your track out of imperfectly cut loops. this is easier said than done, as it gets complicated when trying to wok with a programs bar structure. delays prolly your best bet

[Bevvy Swift]

ps glitch hop rules. i have a coupla things on the way.

[Wood]

in programs like Cubase or Logic (and i believe Live as well) you can export what is called a 'groove template' from a sequence that has a loose feel to it. for instance if you took a one-bar drum loop and choped it in a program like Recycle or Intakt, you would then export a MIDI file that would play back each drum hit as it's mapped out on the keyboard/piano roll. When you import that MIDI file into your arrangement, the notes won't be quantized, they'll play back with the same feel as the original loop. At this point you may choose to quantize the drums so they all fall on even 16th notes, or they can be quantized with 'swing' which will give the break a slightly staggered feel = more funk. But, if you want to preserve the unique feel of the loop you sampled and carry that over to the other loops & sounds you're using, you can export a template that can be used to quantize other sequences in the arrangement to the exact feel of your drum loop.

as for the new vs old styles of production... i like to hear a mix of old & new techniques. A lot of the new synth driven stuff is a little too cold & sterile for my tastes (although i love some of it), but at the same time we aren't as limited by technology as producers were 10-15 years ago, so it makes sense to me to use all the tools that are available to us to create the highest possible quality production that we're capable of. in short, keeps things moving forward without forgetting our inspirations from the past.

Heres something I whipped up based on what I read here so far

http://diversedev.com/sandbox/justintodd_alone.mp3

i dug (albeit, not too deeply) for some samples and used some funk breaks (tighten up).

let me know what you think

Originally Posted by Cheez

to get the loose feel you need, add mild latency to you drums by using a simple delay. adjust the wet/dry mix to 100, so you cant hear the drums that are exactly on beat. voila. human sounding shit.

you could also make your track out of imperfectly cut loops. this is easier said than done, as it gets complicated when trying to wok with a programs bar structure. delays prolly your best bet

Haha thats really clever! I never thought about that!

in programs like Cubase or Logic (and i believe Live as well) you can export what is called a 'groove template' from a sequence that has a loose feel to it. for instance if you took a one-bar drum loop and choped it in a program like Recycle or Intakt, you would then export a MIDI file that would play back each drum hit as it's mapped out on the keyboard/piano roll. When you import that MIDI file into your arrangement, the notes won't be quantized, they'll play back with the same feel as the original loop. At this point you may choose to quantize the drums so they all fall on even 16th notes, or they can be quantized with 'swing' which will give the break a slightly staggered feel = more funk. But, if you want to preserve the unique feel of the loop you sampled and carry that over to the other loops & sounds you're using, you can export a template that can be used to quantize other sequences in the arrangement to the exact feel of your drum loop.

I just tried this out. ya! thats kind of what im after. Pretty straight-forward and no mucking around with manual adjustments

[Séguin]

I do a little bit. Never finished anything because I don't know any MCs.

[Digital Over]

Originally Posted by Junglist

What kind of plugs are you guys using (VST and VSTi)?

What are some of the best breaks to sample?

How do you quantize your drums/samples?

What are some good sources of samples for all of those rhodes/piano/string riffs?

1.)Kontakt VST Sampler plugin :y:

2.)Find a sample you like, find the key that its in, and sequence it yourself, you'll find by going from that approach, you'll find it sits better in your track, as opposed to having something semi pre mixed, not having 100% the desired groove you want, potentially a bitch to time stretch if needed...

3.)In Logic you can easily quantize your regions to whatever by just going into the matrix editor....

4.)Lookin for sounds? Get on the web and find or buy some old AKAI discs, OR look for such VSTs such as "The Grand", "B3", LM4 Drum Machine, or Sample Tank 2.....those are some great plug ins for producing hip hop and DnB.

Originally Posted by Digital Over

1.)Kontakt VST Sampler plugin :y:

Yea! I love Kontakt. I'm slowly migrating over to kontakt2 right now

Originally Posted by Digital Over

2.)Find a sample you like, find the key that its in, and sequence it yourself, you'll find by going from that approach, you'll find it sits better in your track, as opposed to having something semi pre mixed, not having 100% the desired groove you want, potentially a bitch to time stretch if needed...

Slightly offtopic: For all the cubase sx3 users, try out the built in Pitch shifter / timestrecher!!! It works so good! Just found this out last night.

Originally Posted by Digital Over

4.)Lookin for sounds? Get on the web and find or buy some old AKAI discs, OR look for such VSTs such as "The Grand", "B3", LM4 Drum Machine, or Sample Tank 2.....those are some great plug ins for producing hip hop and DnB.

Can PC's read AKAI discs natively? If not, what do I need? Excellent! I'll check out those VST recommendations, thanks!