What it would take before you "change"

[impure]

Originally Posted by rawb

i like to start most of my change as a sudden sparsely worded, unspecific post in the heart to heart or punching bag section. occasionally i will use song lyrics to spice them up.

usually when i have felt i have overcome my adversity, i will post in a entirely new thread containing a slightly embarassing self-serving paragraph pointing out the faults of others to highlight how far i have matured.

then i eat a sandwich and start obsessively clicking the 'new posts' link hoping for replies.

and the truth is told.

[yoko*]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

I think you only need to look at Aristotle, Shakespeare, Newton or any great human mind; each was surrounded by the same influences as the rest of their societies, but something that no one caused to happen (because no one yet had even conceived of it) created in them a new way of thinking about or viewing everything that surrounds us. These unintentional, self-generated sparks are both necessarily possible and infinitely more creative.

I don't agree with your ideas with regards to the "randomness" (or "contextlessness") of "sparks" and your argument for the existence of self-generated sparks or great minds that "noone caused". I also don't agree that Aristotle, Shakespeare and Newton were surrounded by the *same* social influences. Firstly, there's no way of you knowing that their social influences were the same. Secondly I think that the context within which someone is raised and socialized, and the diversity of interactions they experience throughout their lives exposes them do different social influences and shape people differently from one another.

Humans do not exist in isolation and are constantly shaped and re-shaped by interaction with others, define themselves in relation to others, and are a product of the social context within which they were reared and socialized. Saying that "something that no one caused to happen...created in [Shakespeare, Aristotle, and Newton] a new way of thinking about or viewing everything that surrounds us" fails to recognize the relationships that humans have with their society throughout the entirety of their lives that shape them as a person and influence the KINDS of ideas that they are able to generate. Ideas in other words, are not caused by "noone".

In my view, ideas are a combination of context-dependent (society) and "self"-generated (biology) and not one or the other. Thus, the concept that "noone" caused the ideas or minds of "great thinkers" is absurd. Had they lived in a different culture, the cultural norms of that other society may have limited or expanded the kinds of ideas they were able to generate. Thirdly, their social status may have played part in the education that they received and thus their ability to exress and communicate their ideas effectively.


The theory of evolution is just a theory like any other.

[TheCooker]

So many hot girls on FNK! You make me all so hot!

[Ragga_Wh0re]

is it half empty...or half full?

perspective bitches!

but natter on anyways.

[NeVeRLooKBacK]

Originally Posted by MC Hammered

I don't believe in fate or destiny.

I do believe everything happens for a reason and that everyone that comes into your life was brought in for a reason as well at that point in time.

I totally agree
Im not much og a person who believes in fate but everythiong does occur for one reason or another

[Custard]

i love these discussions on fnk.

and as for my response to the original post, not the current discussion. it takes my loon to be sponted pretty heavily before i change.

[Hot Karl]

this thread is over.

rawb won.

[decypher]

Fate is a justification for regretful thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.

[wum]

try a bigger font sinnerman

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by decypher

Fate is a justification for regretful thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.

What about the unexplainable? The absolutely random and unexplainable? People liken those events to fate, too.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

What about the unexplainable? The absolutely random and unexplainable? People liken those events to fate, too.

If fate brings about events that happen for a reason, then how can they be random? IMO fate is just sort of this idea that sooths our qualms with life, gives us faith in the path we have chose or taken, a crutch. In the end though, whether you choose to make things happen in your life is up to you.

[wum]

i tend to think life is just completely random.

[decypher]

goooo existentialists!

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by decypher

If fate brings about events that happen for a reason, then how can they be random? IMO fate is just sort of this idea that sooths our qualms with life, gives us faith in the path we have chose or taken, a crutch. In the end though, whether you choose to make things happen in your life is up to you.

Some people use that word to explain something else that otherwise may be random or completely nonsensical in what happens (sometimes people like to call them 'coincidences'). I disagree with your opinion that it's some kind of a crutch for people's regrets. Some people (not necessarily myself) are of the mindset that their life path has already been set out for them and events that occur are just part of these already planned events that have been forseen by some other force. You make fate seem like a crutch for the weak, but for some it's a pretty powerful thing that is not used to justify one's own regrets.

I don't really believe in fate myself, but I thought I'd defend it for those that do.

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by ~*goddessa*~

is it half empty...or half full?

perspective bitches!

but natter on anyways.

Agreed

[decypher]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Some people use that word to explain something else that otherwise may be random or completely nonsensical in what happens (sometimes people like to call them 'coincidences'). I disagree with your opinion that it's some kind of a crutch for people's regrets. Some people (not necessarily myself) are of the mindset that their life path has already been set out for them and events that occur are just part of these already planned events that have been forseen by some other force. You make fate seem like a crutch for the weak, but for some it's a pretty powerful thing that is not used to justify one's own regrets.

I don't really believe in fate myself, but I thought I'd defend it for those that do.

Haha you read my mind. I do see fate as a source of weakness, only because my view of the universe is a little less then positive heh. I agree though, some people use their religious faith to draw their lives out for them. For some this can be powerful as it gives them the strength to accomplish great things, and that is great if you need it. It is this idea that i see as weak because i believe that direction and strength should be found internally. Depending on Gods or the rolling dice of the universe is not my cup of tea. Finding that inner desire to suceed and accomplish tasks is truly what drives me forward in this space and time.

[J o e l]

wow...in regards to the post (not the current conv.) it took me a broken back, and the loss of someone more important than I wish to share to change...

fate...meh, that can be argued about for ever (as proven above) because everyone has there own opinion, but I do agree witht the peole that say everything happens for a reason.