Teachers Strike

[-evil-duerr-]

my friend was on the bus a month ago, he overheard some young teachers talking about their job... it went along the lines of this

"Yeah we do it for the kids....ha ha" Teacher #1
"huh huh, ya right...pffft, the kids..." Teacher #2

and then they wonder why they dont get the support they need. They dont even have enough sense about them to atleast hide how the really feel about their jobs on public transit.

[whited0ve]

^ ty ty

[the_77x42]

Just an off-topic FYI if you are seriously considering going into politics:
Don't post your picture under your drug-related name on a rave site.

[Ree Fresh]

This ones for the children....

[veN]

Originally Posted by wellbelove's

This ones for the children....

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to wellbelove's again.

[Ree Fresh]

^ there comes a point when you have to be blunt.


With polititions... with celeberties... you cant hide your past.

[mugsy]

shits gonna hit the fan on friday if this isnt worked out.

all the teachers are really asking for now is to abel to negotiate. i think that this issue is going to worsen before it gets any better.

evil duerr - im sorry you had to witness something like that, but im more sorry that your letting what two young teachers said influence you to believe that its the majority of teachers who feel that way.

[whited0ve]

honestly i could care less if people knew i used to e and was a raver if i ever do become a politician. i just have that kind of attitude. many of the worlds best inspired me not to give what people think and strive for what i believe.

wow. youre takin that a lil too far dont u think wellbelove. did i hit you emotionally or something.

if youre gonna try and insult me at least make it a good burn.

[whited0ve]

Originally Posted by wellbelove's

^ there comes a point when you have to be blunt.


With polititions... with celeberties... you cant hide your past.

i could be blunt about you but thatd just be biased, and besides this thread isnt about me or you or our personal attacks. get over it princess.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

honestly i could care less if people knew i used to e and was a raver if i ever do become a politician. i just have that kind of attitude. many of the worlds best inspired me not to give what people think and strive for what i believe.

wow. youre takin that a lil too far dont u think wellbelove. did i hit you emotionally or something.

if youre gonna try and insult me at least make it a good burn.

You don't know much about politics, do you?

[whited0ve]

i know plently about politics. i also know all the personal attacks come with it.

anyways if you want to banter me then come to a REAL debate and do it but til then quit the personal attacking on a thread that has nothing to do with me or questioning my knowledge on politics.

if you guys really want to you could just start a hate thread, at least then itll be more justified.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

what makes you think im so much younger an inexperienced than you are? listen im none of those things, i live independently and am just very involved with politics. i work along with politicians amongst being a member of many groups etc. i did all this on my own, my family or surroundings had nothing to do with it, except maybe that i was a punk for most of highschool.

anyways ill elaborate for you woman... people with parents in cupe etc. are brainwashed to their parents opinions most of the time therefore usually have a response thought out by their parents and not themselves.

If you're involved in several political groups yourself, then chances are you are probably brainwashed too.

Oh, and a tip about your points, constantly emphasizing how great you are in several different ways will not necessarily strengthen your points or make you look any better to your oponents.

[whited0ve]

i never "empasized how great i am." im not looking for some freakin brownie points either.


>>and im not brainwashed, im biased.



im not some goddamn loser despite what you people are trying to make me out to be. if you expect me to speak myself down when im personally offended forget it.

my opinion on the teachers strike was twisted. sorry if you people saw it as a personal attack on yourselves. i dont apprectiate the BCTF, thats all there was to it.

[miss.myra]

Wait, there's a difference between brainwash and bias? I'd love to see you bail yourself out of this one. Did it ever occur to you that some people that express opinions that may happen to be conflicting with your own may as well too be biased as well?

You are looking for brownie points, constantly pointing out incredibly vague credentials in hopes that someone might actually take you seriously. If you want to go anywhere in politics, I really hope you lose a lot of your attitude very soon. It's great to see young people with drive and passion for things that might bore a lot of people their age, but it's not going to do much if you're acting your age as well. If you go back and read the thread a few pages back, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I really do not agree with how you are saying it.

[fable]

ATTN: WHITEDOVE

Originally Posted by whited0ve

i know plently about politics. i also know all the personal attacks come with it.anyways if you want to banter me then come to a REAL debate and do it but til then quit the personal attacking on a thread that has nothing to do with me or questioning my knowledge on politics. if you guys really want to you could just start a hate thread, at least then itll be more justified.

Would you mind replying to some questions and comment i threw your way a few posts ago:





your comments:

anyways ill elaborate for you woman... people with parents in cupe etc. are brainwashed to their parents opinions most of the time therefore usually have a response thought out by their parents and not themselves.

THATS A POWERFUL PROCLAMATION! CAN YOU ELABORATE?

I haven’t bothered to read your other posts, but your statement is a generalization, and a unfounded stereotype that:

1) may lead some to believe that you are of the opinion that many a young people out there are too ignorant to disseminate their opinions from their parents, is this true?

2) that the CUPE union as well as others is largely about rhetoric, lies, and ignorance(leadership aside) and have a secret agenda that is so important that they would be willing to go on a full unilateral strike action?

3) That perhaps the Unions are a waste of time, and do nothing to support the rights of the general working class?

Since you though it necessary to mention that your are active in various political groups, I’m going to give you a small word of advice::

Research and understand the underlying principles of peoples actions and words. Details are important to know, but the PRINCIPLE is the integral key.

The current principle of Union action(corrupt leadership aside) is that the working classes are not having their demands met or even entertained by the provincial government - pure and simple!

Is their any other minor agendas, sure? what does it matter at this point? The primary conflict is that the provincial government has no respect for the significance of strike action of the rising discontent of the working people of Canada, specifically BC in this case. Legislature that forces people back to work, freezes assets and thus denies strike pay(which workers pay into as a deduction from their cheques), and leaves no room for active bargaining, or listening is OPPRESSION OPRESSION OPRESSION!!!!!!

The sector of the HEU under Sadekso(sp?), the BCTF, and even the Telus Union workers at the very core of the matter, are voicing their demands for a better working environment, and a umbrella UNION (I don’t know if that was the right term?) like CUPE, and other unions such as the BCNU are showing their support for their fellow men and women in struggle. The only thing that can stop this movement is a corrupt leadership, but barring that, the working class needs to rise up, else we become mired into a precedent of the provincial government being able to shut down any struggle for workers rights immediately, and that is NOT AN OPTION.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders(I’m not trying be condescending) but do not get caught up in arguments of details, and irrelevancies. Stick to the principles! Its only going to be AFTER the working class is able to be on equal footing with the provincial government, that union members will have a "stable" platform, as to sort out matters such as leadership.

what political groups are you with btw? what sort of lobbying work are you currently involved with? Perhaps you should attend a MAWO meeting, and then decide if its something for you?

nonetheless keep the focus, on the core issue!! and support union members who are leading the struggle for better working conditions!

action+mobilization

shakeel lochan

http://www.mawovancouver.org

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

http://firethistime.net

http://today.reuters.com/news/default.aspx

[fable]

Yo whitedove, can i expect a reply in the next few days, or do you choose to pass-?

[bungoshlung]

^well.. what has she been doing all along?

[zarlon]

boy, it's sure great to watch someone dig themselves deeper into their own hole.

:D

(that could have sounded sick. oops)

[fable]

these are all the posts that you submitted, did you want to add anything else?

teachers are doing this solely for money. i'm very, very politically involved and know this for a fact. i've gone to BCTF events, debates, etc.

for one, thank god they extend class sizes. if they didnt, i wouldnt have been able to take several classes i wanted to. especially an AP english course, which, if i pass the test at the end, lets me straight into 2nd yr english at univ. this wasnt the only class this happened with. sure they were a bit overcrowded, but thanks to that i got a chance to take the classes i needed most.

plus for people in situations like me (living on my own and desperately trying to finish my last year of school, a year later than im supposed to), the strike ruins my chance at finishing school. its awful. and i cant get help on starting cause theyre all on strike.

besides, its an ----> ESSENTIAL SERVICE. <----- our education is just that important. but no, apparently their WAGes are more important (?).

anyways its all bullshit.

geez ppl with parents in cupe have no idea

jesus christ woman im a very active member in several political groups including 2 parties and i always follow along with this stuff very closely, including going to many events, conventions, debates, etc. Politics is becoming my career, as I planned it to. i know what im talking about.

what makes you think im so much younger an inexperienced than you are? listen im none of those things, i live independently and am just very involved with politics. i work along with politicians amongst being a member of many groups etc. i did all this on my own, my family or surroundings had nothing to do with it, except maybe that i was a punk for most of highschool.

anyways ill elaborate for you woman... people with parents in cupe etc. are brainwashed to their parents opinions most of the time therefore usually have a response thought out by their parents and not themselves.

by the way i speak about the majority of teachers... ive been to bctf events and pep rallies and i know what theyre rallying for. it actually makes me wanna puke when i see it.

and yes i know theres tons of awesome teachers out there that shove money out of their pockets, i saw it happen tons with my film teacher. but if u even saw these lil pep rallies they have youd be disgusted.

also, when they have strikes, they defend the question of lost class time (which is usually A LOT of lost class time) with little numbers like 2% of time lost. however, when they talk about a couple days that campbell pulled off for whatever reason, for all i know no reason, its 1.68 million school days?? honestly

please wellbelove you were quite rude yourself

that and most of the worlds best politicians were never afraid to be outspoken

^ ty ty

honestly i could care less if people knew i used to e and was a raver if i ever do become a politician. i just have that kind of attitude. many of the worlds best inspired me not to give what people think and strive for what i believe.

wow. youre takin that a lil too far dont u think wellbelove. did i hit you emotionally or something.

if youre gonna try and insult me at least make it a good burn.

i could be blunt about you but thatd just be biased, and besides this thread isnt about me or you or our personal attacks. get over it princess.

i know plently about politics. i also know all the personal attacks come with it.

anyways if you want to banter me then come to a REAL debate and do it but til then quit the personal attacking on a thread that has nothing to do with me or questioning my knowledge on politics.

if you guys really want to you could just start a hate thread, at least then itll be more justified.

i never "empasized how great i am." im not looking for some freakin brownie points either.


>>and im not brainwashed, im biased.



im not some goddamn loser despite what you people are trying to make me out to be. if you expect me to speak myself down when im personally offended forget it.

my opinion on the teachers strike was twisted. sorry if you people saw it as a personal attack on yourselves. i dont apprectiate the BCTF, thats all there was to it.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by whited0ve

anyways if you want to banter me then come to a REAL debate and do it but til then quit the personal attacking on a thread that has nothing to do with me or questioning my knowledge on politics.

if you guys really want to you could just start a hate thread, at least then itll be more justified.

Hahahahahahahahahah.

It's the fucking internet. Stop bitching about ad hominems. Fucking politicians.

PS: banter is an intransitive verb.

[fable]

Untill everyone realizes that all involved are looking like little children doing this.

- i think of standing up for your rights in spite of oppresive government a mature action, personally

No they will just garnish wages trust me when I say the government will get thiere money.

-pretty close, freezing BCTF assests

2000-2001 Average Class size: 23.4 Students
2001-2002 Average Class size: 23.4 Students
2002-2003 Average Class size: 24.1 Students
2003-2004 Average Class size: 23.9 Students
2004-2005 Average Class size: 23.8 Students

- im sure this one was never resolved - if these are the correct stats, but include all classes, then there "correctness" isnt very "correct" at all ?

Are the teachers not being bullies by putting children in the middle of a labour dispute?

- by the number of student ran and organized demonstrations, id say there is probably a large contigent that isnt taking on the role of "victims" and are in fact supporting their teachers// i think in regards to the students who feel "bullied" this will be more of a positive action in the long run - ie. they are learning that standing up against oppresive gorvernment is in fact a more "canadian" thing "to do" then following them regardless of there "tactics" // as well this will set up a positive precedent so when these kids become future teachers, health care workers, nurses they will come into an environment that gives them a fair option of being able to stand up for specific rights.

Disclaimer: Nothing I have stated in this post was intended as a slight on teachers. It is a critique of their union leadership.

-fair enough, but wouldnt it seem more effecient and better for union members as a whole (not including current leadership) to first convey the message that the government cant just flex their legislative muscles whenever there is a legitimate strike action, THEN focus on weeding out corrupt leadership? although i fully admit to understanding that it may be such "corrupt" union leadership that takes a shitty deal, and piss on the entire process of struggle to date entirely

Supporting them as a profession does not mean that I give teacher's carte blanche to do as they see fit.

- i understand completely, but this is bigger than just the BCTF!? and so are the ramifications if unions are broken and or legislated back to work inspite of legitimate discontent over various concerns in the respective work environments
Every year or 2 the teachers ask for more money

When you choose a career, you know how much it pays, and what it takes

You dont just start asking for more money every fuckin year because you can, this is rediculous
When I was in highschool not 1 teacher has taught me anything usefull or anything I didnt already know, so why the fuck give them more money ?

-thankfully the majority of highschool student in the lower mainland (of the majority that i met) have a better understanding of current events, understand that just becuase a union goes on strike, and then back to work, does not mean they got a good negotiation or even one at all

So let me get this straight folks... the irrefutable numbers taken by civil servants in the ministry of education aren't good enough you'd rather just base your ideas on... what exactly?

-irrefutable!? weak rebuke, in light of the fact that regardless of the fact that someone studied macro/micro economics, statistics, and numerical empirical data has always been laking in a realistic grasp of field conditions

However, the BCTF ---HAS--- stated that class sizes have gone up. The numbers clearly show that is untrue.

- man, how can one take any sort of data, place it in a bubble, completely ignore all sections where there is a natural biasis within the research, not question the background of the classes themselves, and then turn around and hold it has law

The BCTF lies. They are self-serving. Their numbers are often fabricated.

- i know youve tried really hard to have facts with your "facts" and i appreciate the honest attempt (even though the majority of them are from the ministry site itself) but this comment had NO supporting statement what so ever, it is as open ended and loaded as the next comment

All you guys seem to have is "I don't believe your numbers" or "numbers can be misleading". This tactic is used primarily by people who have no real arguement of their own and who cannot substantiate any of the claims they make.

-this one annoyed me. So i will attempt to rebuke, throughout the history of Canadian government, through the countless proven scandals (not including the ones that slipped under the radar), throughout the countless instances of public figures being either skewed or outright wrong, inspite of the inherent corruption of western government, proven over and over and over and over, atleast equaling the empirical data that has be irefutable, you still are going to use the "your just pickn on the numbers, you have nothing" excuse? Come on, naivety, insolence and ignorance is just as apperent on "your side of the opinions given!"

we have double the number of ESL students we had a decade ago. That kind of growth is nearly impossible to sustain, plan for, or allocate resources to deal with.

-hmmm, without researching anything, i can garantee you that the number of new esl related businesses, school, home tutors etc have atleast doubled, but like i said, its not "empirically backed yet"

If a teacher is so immature that they need to punish their students for government policy, then I'm sorry I don't agree with that. That's taking children hostage for political and financial reasons.

-loaded statement again, i wish you could have been at the demo on friday. There was atleast 20 signs that could have been made just for YOU " hostages!? what hostages!? we support our teachers COMPLETLY!" but this is more of an ancedote than anything else

bah! no more! Look, are the chances that a majority of the numbers could be true? Possibley. Is there a chance that this current landscape reeks of governmental oppression of the working class through suffacting, inflexible, legislature, setting a dangerous precedent in the future for the very same kids that have been labelled "hostages" ..........what do you think?

lets see this tape play out, VICTORIA WILL BE BIG!!

action+mobilization
shak

[Ree Fresh]

Whitedove:

- I dont belive I ever attact you personaly... as I believe this is the first time ive ever incountered you EVER.

- It's one thing to have a debate about the BCTF... yet some of your points are pointless, vage, and come out in a visiouse personal way. Polititions dont and cant get away with that.

-The image I made was a way to look your self in the mirror. The fact that you try telling us that you know everything becuase your intrested in politics doesnt work or buy anyone.

- There comes a point when you cant just be yourself. Sadly politics are like a popularity contest. You have to win the hearts of the old, the families, the religouse, and the young adults. Polititions in the passed have been ruined becuase members of the opposite party dig up what ever dirt they can find on them to make them look bad. Now seriously... how are you going to convince gramma or a father and mother of kids to get your vote if they know you had a 'wild and crazy history of raving and drugs' The media will eat you up. Keep in mind the majority of voters are seniors.

-no im not emotionaly hurt, but im very frustrated as you love to make comments about the BCTF and CUPE with out any facts or proof to back up your oppinion!?!

CAN YOU ANSWER US?

Or are you practicing some of your politition skills?

[Niko]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

PS: banter is an intransitive verb.

Words to live by. I know I do.

[ebbomega]

If words were food, this thread would be a whole lot of it!

[the_77x42]

Ya, wow, I didn't mean for this to get that far off topic... personal attacks are still bad, even on the internet.

Anyway, general strike. Should it happen? Is a regional strike good enough? Should other unions support the teachers?